[OB] Beta Reading Oathbringer

[kari-no-sugata]

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank all the beta-readers for their efforts. The amount of work put in sounds immense.

[FeatherWriter she/her]

To talk from my experience, I was really glad that Alice emphasized how much work betaing is. I know there's a lot of people out there who just hear "you get to read the book early, sign me up!" without realizing it's a huge commitment of time and effort. Sure, reading through the draft the first time is fun, but going back through the 400+ comments that I made on a part and having to intersperse them with everyone else's, sorting them into chronological order. Then you've got to make sure you're filing the comment under the right section and also that you're not duplicating what anyone else said. And if you've got some time after that, read through the other 80 comments on that one chapter and vote for and respond to what everyone else said.

Oof. It's a TON of work.

As Alice mentioned, having paragraph numbers in the later parts of the beta was a godsend. Before that it was like, okay I've got my quote of what this comment refers to, but now I need to look at the quotes that everyone else put down in this section and figure out which one it needs to be sandwiched between. And since I obviously don't have every sentence in the draft memorized, it was a lot of word searching and "okay, that quote happens after mine, okay the next one is way before, is there a mistake here and there's another quote that's closer to it? Where is it actually supposed to fit?" Super time consuming. 

As for the actual beta commenting itself, I was afraid I wsn't going to be able to catch as much as I did. What ended up really helping me was the fact that I was reading Way of Kings aloud to my housemate and Words of Radiance aloud to my mom and sister at the same time I was beta-ing Oathbringer, so the original books were really fresh in my mind. There'd be times where I was reading WoK in the car and had to stop and say "wait, that contradicts something that I just read in OB, I need to go make a comment about that so Team Sanderson knows!"

Also, my various hyperfixations on certain Stormlight things helped me out too. There's the debates on the forums and within the fandom that I've been in time and time again and I just know those quotes and the logic behind them super well because it's the stuff I've talked about all the time. When stuff like that shows up in the beta draft, I feel equipped to engage with those topics with some manner of expertise, and I feel like my thoughts and opinions there are worthwhile. 

But yeah, that was some of my experience with beta reading. I'd previously helped with the Calamity beta read, but whew, Oathbringer was a different beast entirely! As Chaos said though, it really is amazing. You guys are going to love it.

[Steeldancer he/him]

16 hours ago, Ravi said:

A horrible, evil person.

how fast can you read the way of kings?

[Chaos he/him]

5 hours ago, Ammanas said:

I'm sure you guys did great! I am pretty bad at catching little errors bc my mind usually automatically corrects grammar mistakes. I think the only mistake I have ever caught in a Sanderson book was in Way of Kings where Dalinar refers to the king as Adolin's nephew when they were obviously cousins. I have no idea how that made it past everyone and later editions corrected the error.

Anyways many thanks to the people that contributed! It seems like beta reading is much more work than I thought it was.

The actual grammar edit stage is the gamma read which is happening soonish. But we noticed a lot of continuity stuff.

@WeiryWriter in particular, because he is a god of WoBs, was super on point.

In defense of Way of Kings, that book have this beta process, and Team Sanderson was working on that and Wheel of Time simultaneously. But they are good on correcting errors!

5 hours ago, jofwu said:

Guys that's 9 exclamation points. Can't be coincidence.

You've got me. It was a hidden message from my tired brain secretly telling you lore, and definitely not just me being tired

[+Ravioli]

1 hour ago, The Flash said:

how fast can you read the way of kings?

On first read, I always take it slow, so about 8ish hours. On reread I can do it in 5 or so.

2 hours ago, FeatherWriter (Alyx) said:

To talk from my experience, I was really glad that Alice emphasized how much work betaing is. I know there's a lot of people out there who just hear "you get to read the book early, sign me up!" without realizing it's a huge commitment of time and effort. Sure, reading through the draft the first time is fun, but going back through the 400+ comments that I made on a part and having to intersperse them with everyone else's, sorting them into chronological order. Then you've got to make sure you're filing the comment under the right section and also that you're not duplicating what anyone else said. And if you've got some time after that, read through the other 80 comments on that one chapter and vote for and respond to what everyone else said.

Oof. It's a TON of work.

As Alice mentioned, having paragraph numbers in the later parts of the beta was a godsend. Before that it was like, okay I've got my quote of what this comment refers to, but now I need to look at the quotes that everyone else put down in this section and figure out which one it needs to be sandwiched between. And since I obviously don't have every sentence in the draft memorized, it was a lot of word searching and "okay, that quote happens after mine, okay the next one is way before, is there a mistake here and there's another quote that's closer to it? Where is it actually supposed to fit?" Super time consuming. 

As for the actual beta commenting itself, I was afraid I wsn't going to be able to catch as much as I did. What ended up really helping me was the fact that I was reading Way of Kings aloud to my housemate and Words of Radiance aloud to my mom and sister at the same time I was beta-ing Oathbringer, so the original books were really fresh in my mind. There'd be times where I was reading WoK in the car and had to stop and say "wait, that contradicts something that I just read in OB, I need to go make a comment about that so Team Sanderson knows!"

Also, my various hyperfixations on certain Stormlight things helped me out too. There's the debates on the forums and within the fandom that I've been in time and time again and I just know those quotes and the logic behind them super well because it's the stuff I've talked about all the time. When stuff like that shows up in the beta draft, I feel equipped to engage with those topics with some manner of expertise, and I feel like my thoughts and opinions there are worthwhile. 

But yeah, that was some of my experience with beta reading. I'd previously helped with the Calamity beta read, but whew, Oathbringer was a different beast entirely! As Chaos said though, it really is amazing. You guys are going to love it.

As to your first part, that was kind of my motivation for reading first, I could comment without encumbrances. I also commented as I read so that my reactions were as instant as possible.

[Steeldancer he/him]

Just now, Ravi said:

On first read, I always take it slow, so about 8ish hours. On reread I can do it in 5 or so.

As to your first part, that was kind of my motivation for reading first, I could comment without encumbrances. I also commented as I read so that my reactions were as instant as possible.

Well heck. Here I was feeling good about being able to read it in about 12 hours of solid reading (which basically turns into about a day, between doing other things in my life). Wow. 

[Guest]

This was fun to read: a big round of applause to all beta readers  While it sounds marvelous to be given this trust, to have your own comments being valued and weighted in with other people, it also seems a daunting task. 

I however have to say how much I envy the beta readers (how silly some our on-going theorizing must sound to all of you!) for actually knowing the answer to what ails me  I'd love to know if I can safely stop fretting over the next book, but I understand nobody can give me an answer. So, five more months to go.

[+eveorjoy she/her]

8 hours ago, maxal said:

This was fun to read: a big round of applause to all beta readers  While it sounds marvelous to be given this trust, to have your own comments being valued and weighted in with other people, it also seems a daunting task. 

I however have to say how much I envy the beta readers (how silly some our on-going theorizing must sound to all of you!) for actually knowing the answer to what ails me  I'd love to know if I can safely stop fretting over the next book, but I understand nobody can give me an answer. So, five more months to go.

Actually, I bet it drives them crazy when they see we are right but can say nothing. 

[FeatherWriter she/her]

2 minutes ago, eveorjoy said:

Actually, I bet it drives them crazy when they see we are right but can say nothing. 

Heh, sometimes I feel like i'm way more impatient for the release of this book than I ever was for the others. There's so much and I just want to talk about it all! Why can't November come sooner, so everyone can see?

[+Ravioli]

10 minutes ago, FeatherWriter said:

Heh, sometimes I feel like i'm way more impatient for the release of this book than I ever was for the others. There's so much and I just want to talk about it all! Why can't November come sooner, so everyone can see?

Can confirm Feather is near exploding.

[FeatherWriter she/her]

Just now, Ravi said:

Can confirm Feather is near exploding.

Or rather, Feather is exploding, but currently only in special beta-reader approved areas!

[Megasif he/him]

Thanks for the hard work everyone. After reading the comments I relaxed knowing I most likely wouldn't be able to handle the beta process so no more being despressed not being part of the beta. Just going to read at my own pace when it comes out. But...

26 minutes ago, FeatherWriter said:

Heh, sometimes I feel like i'm way more impatient for the release of this book than I ever was for the others. There's so much and I just want to talk about it all! Why can't November come sooner, so everyone can see?

This!!! Nooooo. I'm dying.

[Ammanas]

11 hours ago, FeatherWriter said:

Heh, sometimes I feel like i'm way more impatient for the release of this book than I ever was for the others. There's so much and I just want to talk about it all! Why can't November come sooner, so everyone can see?

I feel that the first two books were putting all the pieces on the board and getting everything set for the rest of the series. I know it is probably not a popular opinion, but the first two books were basically a giant prologue. I expect this book to be the best one thus far.

[Darkness he/him]

On ‎29‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 1:14 AM, FeatherWriter said:

To talk from my experience, I was really glad that Alice emphasized how much work betaing is. I know there's a lot of people out there who just hear "you get to read the book early, sign me up!" without realizing it's a huge commitment of time and effort. Sure, reading through the draft the first time is fun, but going back through the 400+ comments that I made on a part and having to intersperse them with everyone else's, sorting them into chronological order. Then you've got to make sure you're filing the comment under the right section and also that you're not duplicating what anyone else said. And if you've got some time after that, read through the other 80 comments on that one chapter and vote for and respond to what everyone else said.

Oof. It's a TON of work.

As Alice mentioned, having paragraph numbers in the later parts of the beta was a godsend. Before that it was like, okay I've got my quote of what this comment refers to, but now I need to look at the quotes that everyone else put down in this section and figure out which one it needs to be sandwiched between. And since I obviously don't have every sentence in the draft memorized, it was a lot of word searching and "okay, that quote happens after mine, okay the next one is way before, is there a mistake here and there's another quote that's closer to it? Where is it actually supposed to fit?" Super time consuming. 

As for the actual beta commenting itself, I was afraid I wsn't going to be able to catch as much as I did. What ended up really helping me was the fact that I was reading Way of Kings aloud to my housemate and Words of Radiance aloud to my mom and sister at the same time I was beta-ing Oathbringer, so the original books were really fresh in my mind. There'd be times where I was reading WoK in the car and had to stop and say "wait, that contradicts something that I just read in OB, I need to go make a comment about that so Team Sanderson knows!"

Also, my various hyperfixations on certain Stormlight things helped me out too. There's the debates on the forums and within the fandom that I've been in time and time again and I just know those quotes and the logic behind them super well because it's the stuff I've talked about all the time. When stuff like that shows up in the beta draft, I feel equipped to engage with those topics with some manner of expertise, and I feel like my thoughts and opinions there are worthwhile. 

But yeah, that was some of my experience with beta reading. I'd previously helped with the Calamity beta read, but whew, Oathbringer was a different beast entirely! As Chaos said though, it really is amazing. You guys are going to love it.

I think you meant for this to be a sobering comment along the lines of, "it ain't all fun and daisies", but what you just described is WAY more attractive than I thought the beta reading process would be. You mean you get to rip the book apart AND catalogue every minute detail obsessively in corroboration with a team?!

hmmm... I can be persistent and memorable too! Brandon will definitely remember me from Sydney lol. Do I have to live in the States? I'll be in Canada by the time the next one goes to beta

aaand I just realized that I should probably email team Sanderson with any serious requests rather than explode all over your thread.

[FeatherWriter she/her]

1 hour ago, Darkness said:

I think you meant for this to be a sobering comment along the lines of, "it ain't all fun and daisies", but what you just described is WAY more attractive than I thought the beta reading process would be. You mean you get to rip the book apart AND catalogue every minute detail obsessively in corroboration with a team?!

hmmm... I can be persistent and memorable too! Brandon will definitely remember me from Sydney lol. Do I have to live in the States? I'll be in Canada by the time the next one goes to beta

aaand I just realized that I should probably email team Sanderson with any serious requests rather than explode all over your thread.

Careful with that. One of Brandon's recommendations for how to become a beta is "Don't Bug Peter."

[Ammanas]

I posted this link awhile back, but with Oathbringer being cut down to 450,000 words it is now going to be the 13th longest science fiction/fantasy novel of all time.

http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2017/02/the-longest-sff-novels-of-all-time.html?m=1

Edited June 30, 2017 by Ammanas

[+Ravioli]

2 hours ago, Ammanas said:

I posted this link awhile back, but with Oathbringer being cut down to 450,000 words it is now going to be the 13th longest science fiction/fantasy novel of all time.

http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2017/02/the-longest-sff-novels-of-all-time.html?m=1

Funny thing, Peter was pondering whether or not we'd be beating "To Green Angel Tower" if Brandon decided to add rather than cut.

[ZenBossanova]

19 hours ago, Ravi said:

Funny thing, Peter was pondering whether or not we'd be beating "To Green Angel Tower" if Brandon decided to add rather than cut.

So far, each Stormlight book has only gotten longer, so this might just be a matter of time. 

[Calderis he/him]

15 minutes ago, ZenBossanova said:

So far, each Stormlight book has only gotten longer, so this might just be a matter of time. 

Very true. And if I'm going to be reading a book that long, I much prefer Brandon's writing to Tad Williams.

I read his Otherland series first and that was phenomenal, so I picked up all three of the series that starts with To Green Angel Tower... I was very disappointed.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Calderis

[Ammanas]

11 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Very true. And if I'm going to be reading a book that long, I much prefer Brandon's writing to Tad Williams.

I read his Otherland series first and that was phenomenal, so I picked up all three of the series that starts with To Green Angel Tower... I was very disappointed.

Maybe part of the problem was you started with To Green Angel Tower which is the concluding volume of the original trilogy.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Ammanas

[Calderis he/him]

Just now, Ammanas said:

Maybe part of the problem was you started with Green Angel Tower which is the concluding volume of the original trilogy.

I don't remember the order. I read them correctly. I just thought the story length could have been cut down significantly as it was very slow.

The amount of actual story progression, compared to the number of pages was continually underwhelming. 

[Ammanas]

@CalderisI tried reading it awhile back and was disappointed. Recently I read a article that caused me to reevaluate things and went back to give it another shot. This time around its highly enjoyable. I'll post the link (not that I'm trying to argue). Eveyone is free to like and dislike whatever they want. I just wanted to share.

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/blog/sci-fi-fantasy/lasting-legacy-tad-williams-memory-sorrow-thorn/

Edited July 1, 2017 by Ammanas

[Calderis he/him]

@Ammanas I agree. I'm not trying to criticize anyone for enjoying the series. 

I read Otherland first, and and that story was very sci-fi masquerading as fantasy due to the setting. So I went into the other series with expectationsset high. The very conventional fantasy setting, combined with the slow pace just disappointed me. He's a very good author, and my opinion of the series is completely due to my own preconceived notions while reading it. 

[+Wax he/him]

Well, I can ask beta reader for other book recommendations, coz there aren't too many original and good fantasy novels around...

most are just twists on dragons & wizard/witch magic.

[Ammanas]

8 hours ago, axcellence said:

Well, I can ask beta reader for other book recommendations, coz there aren't too many original and good fantasy novels around...

most are just twists on dragons & wizard/witch magic.

There are lots of authors doing original things or at least creating original twists on tropes throughout the fantasy genre today. Here are some examples:

The long price series -Daniel Abraham

Shadow Campaigns series -Wexler

Monarchies of God series -Kearney

Everything written by Glen Cook

Malazan series -Erikson

Dandelion Dynasty series -Ken Liu

Facefakers Game-Birch

Divine Cities series -Bennett

Misere - Frohock

Gentlemen bastards series -Lynch

Edited July 3, 2017 by Ammanas