Most Despicable Characters

[Calderis]

14 minutes ago, Extesian said:

Isn't he brilliantly repulsive. 

Btw we're on exactly the same post count. Though I fear neither of will do quite the 1000th post that @Pagerunner did. I'd better get theorizin'

True on both counts. Your rep to post ratio is significantly better than mine though. I blame your superior theorycraft

[Elenion]

4 hours ago, Calderis said:

True on both counts. Your rep to post ratio is significantly better than mine though. I blame your superior theorycraft

That's coming from the guy currently on top of the leaderboard for most rep in the last week. My rep/post ratio is less than 40%.

 

Anyway, I'll admit that I underrated just how evil Tonk Fah is, but for some reason I don't think of him when I think of despicable characters. Maybe it's because he doesn't get enough "screen time" to flesh out just how despicable he is.

[Calderis]

7 hours ago, Elenion said:

Anyway, I'll admit that I underrated just how evil Tonk Fah is, but for some reason I don't think of him when I think of despicable characters. Maybe it's because he doesn't get enough "screen time" to flesh out just how despicable he is.

I think it's because Brandon did his job too well. You see more of Tonk as the big loveably weird guy, who always has a pet. 

I think he he gets enough time, but between the image of Tonk before the reveal, and the focus on Denth as the antagonist in that group... Tonks gets forgotten. 

[maxal]

For my part, it would be Sadeas, Amaram and Gavilar.

[Borio Singaldi]

Obliteration: I just hate him so much. He quotes the Bible in a blasphemous way, causes untold genocidal destruction, is completely invincible with practically no weakness,and is obviously a total sadomasochistic psychopath, especially considering he faced his fear and drove out the darkness caused by Calamity a long time ago already. The blasphemous Bible quotes in particular are what trigger me about him.

KanPaar: How could you be more scummy than him? This guy, despite his centuries of age, is a childish, self-righteous, self-appointed, self-serving brat who is quickly willing to throw away his race's oldest custom (the First Contract) and disobey the First Generation just so he could live. Even before then, when he presided over TenSoon's trial, you could tell that he was a total dirtbag. At least the Lord Ruler did what he thought was for the good of the world durin his centuries of villainy.

Dilaf: For some reason, I can't hate him. I guess I just found him to be too cool of a villain.

Sadeas: THAT STORMING ROTTEN PILE OF ROASTED CHULL DUNG, DON'T GET ME STARTED ON HIM!!!

Amaram: He's just doing what he thinks is for the good of the world, he just has an unfortunate way of going about it. I dislike him, but I don't totally despise him.

Tonk Fah: Give the poor fellow a break, we didn't see that much of him.

Mr. Suit: Same with Dilaf. I think he was too cool to be all that despicable.

Forch: This is the guy we're all forgetting about! An unsuspecting Twinborn Terrisman boy turns out to be a psychopathic child murderer who's cutting open a five-old's-chest? How could you not hate that? He garnered both terror and loathing from me.

Iadon: How is it that I almost forgot about him? He's rude, unprofessional, disrespectful even to royalty, uncaring about his own son's circumstances, and very weak-willed. absolutely hateful. And that was before we found him naked and covered in blood, holding a knife over an eviscerated maid's body. Yeesh.

[Calderis]

22 minutes ago, Firerust said:

Tonk Fah: Give the poor fellow a break, we didn't see that much of him.

I suggest reading the annotations. We will see more of him, and without Denth to rein him in, he'll be worse than the torturous murderer we already saw. 

[Toaster Retribution]

11 hours ago, maxal said:

For my part, it would be Sadeas, Amaram and Gavilar.

Gavilar? Huh. May I ask why?

Also, @Firerust thanks for reminding us of Iadon. He should definitely be on this list (Telrii probably should as well).

Oh, and about Denth, he did kidnap children in order to blackmail their parents. That was probably his worst action, IMO.

[Lightning]

Let me say again, I think Biblioden should be on this list.

He sunk an entire continent.  He has enslaved half the planet.  He is the leader of an evil cult, who themselves are afraid of him.

He doesn't suffer from any mental illnesses, or as far as we know have other mitigating circumstance, to his actions.  He is quite "rational" in his evil, but even his reasons for choosing evil are despicable.

He quite readily will perform human sacrifice to get what he wants.

[Vyree]

I find it hard to look past Sadeas! That guy literally couldn't be a bigger chull hole if he tried! 

Edited June 22, 2017 by TruthlessCal
Misspelling

[maxal]

17 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Gavilar? Huh. May I ask why?

Yes you might 

Gavilar raged war across his land in order to secure a unity for obscure reasons which seems to revolve around his personal glory. No matter what his initial intentions might have been, he still killed, slaughter and annihilated his opponents just so he could sit on a throne. Once this was done, he worried about the kingdom lasting. He somehow came to the conclusion it needed to face a devastating thread in order to stand united. He thus plotted to create another Desolation hoping a common foe would cement the unity he wishes to have. He also wanted the Heralds to come back to the world so he could bath within their glory.

I thus despise Gavilar because he was willing to kill thousand of people just so HIS visions of the world could prevail. It does not matte if unity is desirable for Alethkar, the way he chose to achieve and to maintain it make him a despicable individual. 

[Calderis]

41 minutes ago, maxal said:

Yes you might 

Gavilar raged war across his land in order to secure a unity for obscure reasons which seems to revolve around his personal glory. No matter what his initial intentions might have been, he still killed, slaughter and annihilated his opponents just so he could sit on a throne. Once this was done, he worried about the kingdom lasting. He somehow came to the conclusion it needed to face a devastating thread in order to stand united. He thus plotted to create another Desolation hoping a common foe would cement the unity he wishes to have. He also wanted the Heralds to come back to the world so he could bath within their glory.

I thus despise Gavilar because he was willing to kill thousand of people just so HIS visions of the world could prevail. It does not matte if unity is desirable for Alethkar, the way he chose to achieve and to maintain it make him a despicable individual. 

I didn't respond earlier, but my initial reaction to Gavilar was "oh, that's a good one." 

If anyone thinks Amaram belongs here, Gavilar does too. Everything Amaram is trying to achieve, he based on goals shared with Gavilar before his death. 

[Toaster Retribution]

5 hours ago, maxal said:

Yes you might 

Gavilar raged war across his land in order to secure a unity for obscure reasons which seems to revolve around his personal glory. No matter what his initial intentions might have been, he still killed, slaughter and annihilated his opponents just so he could sit on a throne. Once this was done, he worried about the kingdom lasting. He somehow came to the conclusion it needed to face a devastating thread in order to stand united. He thus plotted to create another Desolation hoping a common foe would cement the unity he wishes to have. He also wanted the Heralds to come back to the world so he could bath within their glory.

I thus despise Gavilar because he was willing to kill thousand of people just so HIS visions of the world could prevail. It does not matte if unity is desirable for Alethkar, the way he chose to achieve and to maintain it make him a despicable individual. 

Good points there. And personally,  I think I would place Gavilar above Amaram: there is a chance that Amaram genuinely believes that his goal will be the best for humanity. Gavilar apparently just wanted personal glory.

[Jonathon]

Mraize. 

[maxal]

10 hours ago, Calderis said:

I didn't respond earlier, but my initial reaction to Gavilar was "oh, that's a good one." 

If anyone thinks Amaram belongs here, Gavilar does too. Everything Amaram is trying to achieve, he based on goals shared with Gavilar before his death. 

These are exactly my thoughts. Gavilar was the leading element and, after reading The Thrill, I can say these thoughts have been with Gavilar for a... very long time. The final plan probably wasn't hatched until much later, but already, he wondered about his kingdom lasting, even before he was even finished conquering it. Another clue would be Dalinar slaughtering this village (the first excerpt) and encountering villagers wondering: "Why? Why are you attacking us? We did nothing!".

Truth is the Kholins were the aggressors and the bad guys. Each time I dig into The Thrill, all I can think of is how unjustified Gavilar's actions were, how blind-sighted Dalinar was and how they truly were the invaders and the enemy. Unlike Dalinar though, Gavilar pushed it one step further. Dalinar, I can at least get he is a simpleton (or he acts like one) which may be why he didn't really realize what they were doing and later decided they have been wrong. Gavilar? He never second guessed himself.

5 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Good points there. And personally,  I think I would place Gavilar above Amaram: there is a chance that Amaram genuinely believes that his goal will be the best for humanity. Gavilar apparently just wanted personal glory.

Agree. Amaram seems to think he has some Holy Mission to fulfill while Gavilar only wants to be glorious. He makes me think of Elhokar, but a Elhokar having the means to pursue his dreams of grandeur.

[KnicTheAccountant]

Probably Tyn gets my most despised. From her characterization I don't think she has a single loyalty or value beyond her own well-being. At least Sadeas cared about a unified Alethkar, in his own perverse way. Tyn cared for nothing beyond herself, and she'd gut anyone who stood in her way. That kind of callous behavior repulses me. 

Maybe Roshone too? The pain of a son dying is terrible, but to go through that, and intentionally inflict that pain on another for no other reason than vindictive malice is pretty despicable to me. 

 

[maxal]

7 hours ago, KnicTheAccountant said:

Maybe Roshone too? The pain of a son dying is terrible, but to go through that, and intentionally inflict that pain on another for no other reason than vindictive malice is pretty despicable to me. 

I don't like Roshone, but I do not find him as despicable as others. He was entitled, as far as we can tell, he was not behaving in any different ways from most lighteyes. Yes, he unjustly put a couple of elderly people into jail, but he did not kill them, not directly. They weren't suppose to die. From his perspective, the treatment he received from Dalinar probably was terribly unfair: after whom hasn't done exactly what he has done and walk away? Why prosecute him? How many people Dalinar Kholin unjustly killed? And he, Roshone, gets to be sent away to faraway down over two old people? Now, I am not defending him, but I am trying to get into what might have been his thought process.

Once he gets to Heartstone, a small insignificant extremely poor village, he expects people to bow to him: the don't. He expects to find money: it is gone, it was stolen and yes Lirin did steal it. After that, he unjustly feels Lirin allowed his son to die and this might be one of Lirin's mistakes. I understand he wants to treat his patients as he sees fit, I understand the boy had no chance of survival, but when your other patient urges you to work on your son, to forget about you, even if it is hopeless, it is right to deny him? It is right and at the same time it isn't. Lirin might have done the right thing, but to Roshone it was the wrong thing.

After that, yes, he tries to get his revenge by putting Tien onto the list. This was mean, but then again, as he insisted, it was his right. It is also true Tien was the carpenter's third apprentice. It is very true Tien was not needed in Heartstone. Once we are in Amaram's army, we find out there were more than enough boys Tien's age to form a squad which means he wasn't an exception. So whom should we blame? Roshone who acted as per were his "rights" as far as we are aware or the law which actually allows boys of thirteen to be recruited? Sure, Roshone is despicable for putting Tien on that list to begin with, but if not now, then Tien surely would have been on the list a few years later just for the fact Heartstone does not need a third carpenter, especially not one not interested in making useful stuff.

So all in all, while I do hate Roshone, I don't find him as despicable as Gavilar or Amaram or Sadeas. Roshone was petty and vengeful, but he didn't try to annihilate his small village for it. He sent one boy to the army for a 4 years period, the boy could have survived and return home. Once in the army, it was Amaram which was responsible for Tien being put in action. Amaram could have keep on using Tien as a messenger boy up until he was old enough to fend for himself, he didn't. So who's to blame really for Tien dying?

[Brightlord M. Alhstrom]

Theopolis came to mind.

Denth definitely needs to be on that list. True, he isn't quite as obviously despicable as Tonk, but he was also trying to spread misery on a much grander scale. A lot of the arguments against Gavilar would apply to Denth.

Laral. Honestly. You all dis Roshone? What about the girl half his age who courts his son, then courts him once his son dies.

 

Might find more later.

[Calderis]

3 minutes ago, Lord Maelstrom said:

Laral. Honestly. You all dis Roshone? What about the girl half his age who courts his son, then courts him once his son dies.

You think she honestly had a choice? 

[Brightlord M. Alhstrom]

Just now, Calderis said:

You think she honestly had a choice? 

From Kaladin to Rillir to Roshone. Honestly, it looks way too much like she was being an opportunistic. One such switch might fly as "she didn't have a choice", but two?

[Calderis]

4 minutes ago, Lord Maelstrom said:

From Kaladin to Rillir to Roshone. Honestly, it looks way too much like she was being an opportunistic. One such switch might fly as "she didn't have a choice", but two?

She was placed as a ward to Roshone after her father's death, and after Rillir's death was betrothed to Roshone. Lirin even said Roshone "couldn't let her get away." 

In a patriarchal society, in which her future was over seen by the man who would first have been her father-in-law and then her husband, I'm fairly sure the choice was made for her. She probably could have fought it, but every non darkeyed person she met would have told her "it's the way of the world." 

[Brightlord M. Alhstrom]

Just now, Calderis said:

She was placed as a ward to Roshone after her father's death, and after Rillir's death was betrothed to Roshone. Lirin even said Roshone "couldn't let her get away." 

In a patriarchal society, in which her future was over seen by the man who would first have been her father-in-law and then her husband, I'm fairly sure the choice was made for her. She probably could have fought it, but every non darkeyed person she met would have told her "it's the way of the world." 

Fair enough. Sorry, its been a while since I've had my hands on Stormlight archives.

[maxal]

Laral is just a teenager girl who's only asset in life is being a lighteyed. She is just a money bag to be bought by the highest bidder: she had no choice but to go along with it. I pity her more than I despise her. I sincerely hope she found a way to be happy despite being forced to marry Roshone.

[Toaster Retribution]

6 hours ago, Lord Maelstrom said:

A lot of the arguments against Gavilar would apply to Denth.

I agree that Denth is bad (he is still my favorite Warbreaker character though), but how is he and Gavilar alike? Gavilar did a lot of bad things for his own glory, and Denth did them for money. He is a mercenary, and was only doing what he was hired to do. 

[Brightlord M. Alhstrom]

6 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I agree that Denth is bad (he is still my favorite Warbreaker character though), but how is he and Gavilar alike? Gavilar did a lot of bad things for his own glory, and Denth did them for money. He is a mercenary, and was only doing what he was hired to do. 

Honestly, as a mercenary I could see some of that stuff happening, but starting a full on war, and on the scale he was doing it? You don't hire on as a mercenary to do that unless you have your own reasons for wanting a war. I don't see one of the 5 scholars, who is also a returned, an amazing duelist, and one of the most accomplished awakeners to have ever lived, would stoop so low as to follow orders for a small fortune (Small by an immortal's standards that is). No, I find it much more likely that he already had plans, but figured to get "hired" to do them as well, to give him more tools, money, and excuses.

Maybe I'm wrong, and he isn't quite that big. However, if he had been left unstopped, his actions would still have lead to almost as much suffering as Gavilar's did. To me that is enough reason to despise him.

[WhiteLeeopard]

On 2017-6-24 at 3:33 PM, maxal said:

I don't like Roshone, but I do not find him as despicable as others. He was entitled, as far as we can tell, he was not behaving in any different ways from most lighteyes. Yes, he unjustly put a couple of elderly people into jail, but he did not kill them, not directly. They weren't suppose to die. From his perspective, the treatment he received from Dalinar probably was terribly unfair: after whom hasn't done exactly what he has done and walk away? Why prosecute him? How many people Dalinar Kholin unjustly killed? And he, Roshone, gets to be sent away to faraway down over two old people? Now, I am not defending him, but I am trying to get into what might have been his thought process.

 

I'm not sure I agree with this one. Most of the people we have seen in the Cosmere who were despicable were acting well within their rights. The Lord Ruler? Might makes Right. Sadeas? No trial of Alethkar would ever have found him guilty, as he always acted within the law and his rights. And what about every single repugnant noble in Scadrial Era 1? Killing skaa, drowning children, raping women, all within their rights. That doesn't make any of what they did any less wrong. 

I wouldn't put Roshone on the top 5 Cosmere despicable list, but on the top 10 definetely yes. He treated people like trash, he got good people that could actually do something other than lounge around get killed in his greed, then despised other people that again could actually do something like a child throwing a tantrum. 

21 hours ago, Calderis said:

She was placed as a ward to Roshone after her father's death, and after Rillir's death was betrothed to Roshone. Lirin even said Roshone "couldn't let her get away." 

In a patriarchal society, in which her future was over seen by the man who would first have been her father-in-law and then her husband, I'm fairly sure the choice was made for her. She probably could have fought it, but every non darkeyed person she met would have told her "it's the way of the world." 

Laral doesn't seem someone to despise, but definetely someone to hold in contempt. She might just have been an object to be sold and bought, but she also had some power in that she wouldn't be harmed or thrown away, she could have been a lighteyes who was kind to others and who still showed fondness for a darkeyes friend. It isn't as if she would have received much more than a raised eyebrow or lecture. Instead she chose to be a snob like every other lighteyes despite having grown up with a darkeyes that seemed to have 5x her education, inteligence and knowledge. Just because you accept your place in society, doesn't mean you can't do it your own way. Other lighteyes likely have the excuse they never met a darkeyes on equal terms, like nobles in Scadrial that honestly beleived skaa were another species. Laral does not have that excuse.