makromag he/him Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 I was rereading the Way of Kings (again) and stumbled upon something that piqued my interest. Szeth mentions in the first interlude, that death wishes are sacred to his people (the Shin). To Szeth's people, a dying request was sacred. I read nothing further into that at first, however that's when I noticed the next quote: "I wish to sleep. I know now why you do what you do, and I hate you for it. I will not speak of the truths I see." - Kakashah 1173, 142 seconds pre-death. A Shin sailor, left behind by his crew... So the only one of Taravangian's "patients" to apparently know what's up is a Shin. These two quotes together leads me to the conclusion, that the Shin know more about the death-visions than the other Rosharans. What are your thoughts on the subject? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartbug he/him Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 I think that this could very well lead into the whole, Shin-made-a-deal-with-the-Devil(Opium) theory, the basis of which being that the Shin do bad stuff in order to keep their land good. I kind of buy into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peng the Just he/him Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 I think the shin are more involved with cultivation than odium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiver he/him Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 I think that this could very well lead into the whole, Shin-made-a-deal-with-the-Devil(Opium) theory, the basis of which being that the Shin do bad stuff in order to keep their land good. I kind of buy into it. That's the real moral of the story, kids. Don't do drugs. Put in the journey to get a natural high! Without having read the Word of Radiance extracts (they'll just make me want it now!), I would say the Shin probably know more about the past desolations than the other nations do. That's not to say they are right, of course, and it all depends on what causes the death whispers; it might be that they are just more aware of the cognitive/spiritual realms than the other races of Roshar. What seems interesting to me, though, is that it's a sailor who knows what Taravangion is doing. That seems to suggest that that sort of knowledge is fairly well disseminated throughout Shinovar, rather than just being held by priests or scholars. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riftwise Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) Taravangian also knows a lot about the Shin. From his conversion with Szeth in Chapter 71: “Truthless,” the king mused. “I would say that you know much truth. More than your countrymen, now.” “Your words are like the hundred doves.” “Easy to release, difficult to keep,” Taravangian said, speaking the words in Shin. Szeth looked up sharply. This man spoke the Shin language and knew his people’s proverbs? Perhaps what he learned from the Shin influenced the hospitals he built and the "secret" work that he does.Although, after re-reading the chapter, Taravangian says this: “We do not know why some speak when others do not,” Taravangian said. “But the dying see something. It began seven years ago, about the time when King Gavilar was investigating the Shattered Plains for the first time.” His eyes grew distant. “It is coming, and these people see it. On that bridge between life and the endless ocean of death, they view something. Their words might save us.” “You are a monster.” Szeth doesn't seem to have a reaction that indicates he has a deeper understanding of the death quotes.It occurs to me that maybe the Shin sailor was just observant of their work with the other "patients". Edited February 6, 2014 by Riftwise 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robot Aztec Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 They Are Shin bceause they have LEG UP on knows things! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_warko he/him Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Yes, but do the Shin know that we know that they know more than they know? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chlehrma Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Walking on stone is sacrilege Stormlight is sacred and not to be used as lamps or decoration Farmers are of the highest caste Warriors are of the lowest caste Humility is a virtue Haggling is backwards in shinovar Their priests (stone shamans) possess an Honorblade (now given temporarily to Szeth) Their priests can retrieve the blade if Szeth dies (indicates some martial ability) They do not believe the voidbringers exist (per Szeth's punishment) They do not have spren (spirits) that we know of... They do not seem to get hit by highstorms--though if that is true, then how would they have stormlight and hold it to be sacred? They possess a barehanded martial art called kamar (possibly a priest thing and might explain how they can retrieve an Honorblade) That is all I can think of regarding the shin. What did I leave out? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalbusker he/him Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 They do not seem to get hit by highstorms--though if that is true, then how would they have stormlight and hold it to be sacred?The fact that they don't have highstorms, and thus probably only possess stormlight-infused objects through great effort, could well be why they think it's sacred. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chlehrma Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 The fact that they don't have highstorms, and thus probably only possess stormlight-infused objects through great effort, could well be why they think it's sacred. Excellent point. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottomatic Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 Could it be sacred because of what they use it for? Mabey turning all that metal they get into new plate and blades? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinintendo Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) Could the shin be based on the Japanese? language full of proverbs remind me a lot of japanese/chinese they got tons of them ALSO one of the translation of 真 is shin means truth. Is Szeth a ninja with katana? (I'm not racist hope I didn't offend anyone) Edit: Forgot to add that in olden times white clothes (set?) wore only at funeral Edited February 24, 2014 by shinintendo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 Could the shin be based on the Japanese? language full of proverbs remind me a lot of japanese/chinese they got tons of them ALSO one of the translation of 真 is shin means truth. Is Szeth a ninja with katana? (I'm not racist hope I didn't offend anyone) Edit: Forgot to add that in olden times white clothes (set?) wore only at funeral The Shin do seem to have Asian influences culture-wise (focus on the community rather than individuality), but Brandon did something of a twist: the 'child-like' eyes of the Shin actually make them one of the more European races on Roshar. Most humans have an epicanthic fold on Roshar. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of nowhere Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 It is no mistery that brandon spent two years in korea, so he used many bits of asian cultures to draw inspiration for his own cultures. After all, any fantasy culture is generally a mix of different real world cultures with some extra elements tied to the magic of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinintendo Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 ^I didn't know that, anyway I find it challenging to conclude more about the shin culture via asian cultures. Maybe get more idea about the truth and truthless and being an outcast from your country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asha'man Logain Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 The link between Shin meaning truth, and Szeth being truthless and thus worthless to their society does point toward a connection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rooster he/him Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 I wonder is Jasnah has visited Shinovar to find some answers? She would know at the very least that they have a different perspective on history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser he/him Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) Just to add to the pile. Whatever Szeth is being punished for is nearly coincident with the start of the death rattles, and a year before Gavilar was killed. This quote from Szeth in the prologue seems to indicate much to me: "He had heard that the Voidbringers could hold it in perfectly. But, then, did they even exist? His punishment declared that they didn't. His honor demanded that they did." Mr. T makes reference to somebody called the Lifebrother. Random not very well justified deductions + questions: Szeth is being punished for something he did related to the Voidbringers The Lifebrother lives for a long time (possibly a Herald?) and/or can do healing. If his punishment demands that the Voidbringers don't exist, then do the Stone Shamans (who seem to rule in Shinovar) deny the existence of the Voidbringers? If fighters are the lowest class in Shinovar then the Stone Shamans can kick their butt whenever they try to improve their status (maybe with a Shardblade?). Szeth is some sort of renegade (and part of a renegade faction, or he couldn't have learned non-conventional things about the Voidbringers) among the Shin. edit: added stuff about Lifebrother, deductions/questions Edited February 24, 2014 by hoser 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humph Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 Their priests can retrieve the blade if Szeth dies (indicates some martial ability) Not necessarily. If the blade was loaned to Szeth with the owner still alive, it could be recalled at any time by the owner. In this scenario we would have to assume that the owner can not only lend the blade, he can also lend the power to dismiss it and call it back (unless that comes with physical possession of the blade itself). So perhaps a Herald hiding out in Shinovar where the Stormfather can't see? Some ability to track the location of the blade would seem to be implied. Darkness seems to be able to track spren bonding, so perhaps something like that? If Darkness is a Herald, then that would lend even more credence to thinking that there is a Herald in Shinovar who has similar ability to track the location of the blade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khmauv he/him Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) After reading Hoser's post. It got me thinking of the role Szeth plays in all of this. I think you are on to something. Particularly this: Just to add to the pile. Whatever Szeth is being punished for is nearly coincident with the start of the death rattles, and a year before Gavilar was killed. This quote from Szeth in the prologue seems to indicate much to me: "He had heard that the Voidbringers could hold it in perfectly. But, then, did they even exist? His punishment declared that they didn't. His honor demanded that they did." Is it possible that whatever Szeth did triggered the beginning of the desolation countdown or did he take up an honorblade in response to a belief in the coming of a desolation? Now things seem to be coming together in my head. Let me see if I can paint the picture: -The Honorblades are in Shinovar where the Shin people have been sworn to protect them. -The Shin people believe the Voidbringers to be defeated and the Desolations long since halted. Therefore, they detest the very idea of violence and war since the Heralds put to rest the need to continue such practice. -Szeth, a radical in Shin society that doesn't swallow this belief whole, pulls the sword from the stone in response to an event that makes him believe that the Voidbringers have returned. -When he refuses to return the blade they bind him (somehow) to an oath stone and cast him out of their society. Now this... "He had heard that the Voidbringers could hold it in perfectly. But, then, did they even exist? His punishment declared that they didn't. His honor demanded that they did." ...makes a lot more sense. note: I know it is wild speculation but, isn't that what we do? edit: punctuation...even though it is still pretty bad. Edited February 25, 2014 by Khmauv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser he/him Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) I like a lot of this, but have one alternate interpretation. After reading ... note: I know it is wild speculation but, isn't that what we do? At the end of tWoK, Mr. T says to Szeth something like, "Given that monstrosity of a Shardblade by your people", and Szeth, who is behaving rather contentiously at the time, doesn't disagree. I think that the Shardblade, surgebinding training, etc., are all part of his sentence. Edited February 25, 2014 by hoser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts