Taln's blade

[Cloak]

After the prologue, we encounter Taln (the Herald of War) at the end of Way of the Kings where he cuts through the city gate using his honorblade. Next in the Words of Radiance, while he is kept in the asylum, Dalinar bonds with Taln's blade. At the end when Dalinar bonds with the Stormfather, he hears screams from the same 'blade' indicating it was a Shardblade. So, what happened to Taln's 'honorblade'?
Was it swapped 'offscreen'? If so, any theories regarding the swap and who might have done it?  

[+Extesian]

Very astute, I was embarrassed I failed to see that on my first read.

The answer is we don't know who swapped it, except that it wasn't Hoid and that none of the main characters know who has it. Here are some WoBs, the most important ones at the bottom.

Edit - Stormlight Archive spoilers, just in case...

Quote

Question

How was Dalinar able to bond Taln’s shardblade-- honorblade?

Brandon Sanderson

It’s not Taln’s honorblade.

source

Quote

Question

Would it be safe to assume that Kaladin is also carrying the Honorblade? Because that makes the most sense to me.

Brandon Sanderson

Which Honorblade?

Question

The one from Szeth.

Brandon Sanderson

That is... He's not.

Question

That surprises me, because to me that would be the best- That would make the most sense.

Brandon Sanderson

That would be sneaky of me. But that's not the case.

Question

So he actually has an Honorblade, since you asked which one.

Brandon Sanderson

He took Szeth's. So he has that one. Oh! I thought you meant Taln's, I thought. He does not have Taln's. He has Szeth's.. Yes he has Szeth’s.

Question

I'm assuming he found that one, because that made the most sense to keep it safe

Brandon Sanderson

He’s got Szeth’s, that is true. ... Sorry, I assumed you meant Taln's. Taln's is gone.

Question

Yeah. Taln's vanished off the face of the planet! I'm assuming Hoid grabbed that one, actually.

Brandon Sanderson

That is one of the prevailing theories and not one that is unreasonable.

Question

Well, considering. That was the one, because you had mentioned last time you were here that you could have both, and I was like, "okay, so that means he’s got Szeth's sword."

source

Quote

Question

If the spren that bond people scream when they touch a Shardblade, but then at the end of Words of Radiance Kaladin holds Szeth's honorblade and they do not have a problem with that, why does the Stormfather force Dalinar to get rid of his Honorblade at the end of Words of Radiance?

Brandon Sanderson

So... He does not have an Honorblade at the end of Words of Radiance.

Question

He does not. Oh, I thought he got it from... [Taln]

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, that's what the assumption is. If you look very closely, the blade that you think he ends up with is described differently from the one that he actually does.

source

Quote

Question

At the very end of Words of Radiance, Dalinar touches a Shardblade and it screams at him. Should that particular Blade have been safe?

Brandon Sanderson

No it should not have. It's a clue that something has happened. There are other clues that something is wrong with what the story you've been told is.

Question

Because Option 2 is that it's unsafe to touch an honorblade, but there's no evidence of that.

Brandon Sanderson

There is no evidence of that. There's much stronger evidence that something else is going on.

Question

Did Hoid switch out the blades?

Brandon Sanderson

Hoid did not switch out the blades, but good question.

source

Quote

Question

The Shardblade that Dalinar had at the end of Words of Radiance, was that the Honorblade?

Brandon Sanderson

The Shardblade that Dalinar had at the end of Words of Radiance that he gave up?

Question

Yeah, that he gave up.

Brandon Sanderson

No it was not.

 

Question

It was not? So what happened to the Honorblade that the Herald had?

Brandon Sanderson

Nobody kno- Well, somebody knows, but it is not known to the main characters.

Question

Can I ask if uh, Hoid-

Brandon Sanderson

If Hoid knows?

Question

Yeah.

Brandon Sanderson

Hoid did not take it, but I’m not answering whether he knows.

source

 

Edited May 11, 2017 by Extesian

[Radiant_Jaeger]

2 hours ago, Cloak said:

After the prologue, we encounter Taln (the Herald of War) at the end of Way of the Kings where he cuts through the city gate using his honorblade. Next in the Words of Radiance, while he is kept in the asylum, Dalinar bonds with Taln's blade. At the end when Dalinar bonds with the Stormfather, he hears screams from the same 'blade' indicating it was a Shardblade. So, what happened to Taln's 'honorblade'?
Was it swapped 'offscreen'? If so, any theories regarding the swap and who might have done it?  

Welcome to the Forum! Also this has been mentioned in many topics before my friend. @Extesian kindly pointed out the most relevant WoBs (Words of Brandon... Lol i think I'm pretty new too) 

[+Extesian]

Though I did miss the interesting bit of your post, @Cloak - the question of who may have done it! Personally I think one of Taravangian's agents. But it would be very interesting if it was an organization like the Ghostbloods.

[Steeldancer]

1 hour ago, Extesian said:

Though I did miss the interesting bit of your post, @Cloak - the question of who may have done it! Personally I think one of Taravangian's agents. But it would be very interesting if it was an organization like the Ghostbloods.

Yeah what if they try to make a new assassin?????

[The One Who Connects]

7 hours ago, Cloak said:

If so, any theories regarding the swap and who might have done it?

Oh boy... The answer to this question is "there are a lot"

In no particular order, there are people on here suspecting:

• Liss (Assassin meeting with Jasnah in WoR Prologue, May have still been in Kholinar at the time)
• Chana (Herald of Dustbringers, started as a "Liss is Chana" theory that branched out)
• Lone Greedy Diagrammist (No specific Guesses, but they'd have to be high up to know what an Honorblade could do)
• Diagrammist under Orders (Taravangian may count as a main character knowing, so it's up for debate)
• Bordin (Dalinar's agent in Kholinar for unknown reasons at the time, Brought Taln to the Warcamps)
• Shalash (Herald of Lightweavers, her "No Shardblade" comment was before Taln arrived)
• The Skybreakers (People think they're hoarding the Lost Shardblades from the Recreance)
• Amaram (His "precious cargo" comment, semi-disproved/doubted)
• The Ghostbloods (With exception to Extesian's comment 4 hrs ago, I don't think they have ever been under suspicion for this)

Any others that I've missed?

---

I personally favor it being Liss, but we'll have to wait and see if we get more answers(or suspects) in Oathbringer

[Lightning]

10 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

Oh boy... The answer to this question is "there are a lot"

In no particular order, there are people on here suspecting:

• Liss (Assassin meeting with Jasnah in WoR Prologue, May have still been in Kholinar at the time)
• Chana (Herald of Dustbringers, started as a "Liss is Chana" theory that branched out)
• Lone Greedy Diagrammist (No specific Guesses, but they'd have to be high up to know what an Honorblade could do)
• Diagrammist under Orders (Taravangian may count as a main character knowing, so it's up for debate)
• Bordin (Dalinar's agent in Kholinar for unknown reasons at the time, Brought Taln to the Warcamps)
• Shalash (Herald of Lightweavers, her "No Shardblade" comment was before Taln arrived)
• The Skybreakers (People think they're hoarding the Lost Shardblades from the Recreance)
• Amaram (His "precious cargo" comment, semi-disproved/doubted)
• The Ghostbloods (With exception to Extesian's comment 4 hrs ago, I don't think they have ever been under suspicion for this)

Any others that I've missed?

---

I personally favor it being Liss, but we'll have to wait and see if we get more answers(or suspects) in Oathbringer

You missed one.  Isn't it possible that Taln still has it?

[The One Who Connects]

3 minutes ago, Lightning said:

You missed one.  Isn't it possible that Taln still has it?

All things considered... maybe. None of the 5 WoB's Extesian linked explicitly say no, but Taln is a main character since he is getting his own book, he should know that he still has it. So Brandon's "not known to the main characters" line would be a little suspect. Additionally, Brandon says "Taln's is gone" which should probably mean something important.

All in all, its a clever idea that nobody's thought of so far. Well done

[Radiant_Jaeger]

1 hour ago, The One Who Connects said:

All things considered... maybe. None of the 5 WoB's Extesian linked explicitly say no, but Taln is a main character since he is getting his own book, he should know that he still has it. So Brandon's "not known to the main characters" line would be a little suspect. Additionally, Brandon says "Taln's is gone" which should probably mean something important.

All in all, its a clever idea that nobody's thought of so far. Well done

Also my ridiculous idea that he IS the blade and is still being tortured in Braise but his cognitive self was splintered and came to roshar inhabiting someone who's mind was already completely broken.

Probably not though since apparently possession is a huge no no..

[Andy92]

The Hoid quotes are a little...ambiguous. Brandon is pretty careful to say Hoid didn't make the switch, and Hoid didn't take it from Taln, but that doesn't mean someone else didn't do it for him.

Spoiler

Like the Moon Scepter in The Emperor's Soul

 

[ZenBossanova]

2 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

Any others that I've missed?

The Shin, as they have already collected the other remaining honorblades. 

[The One Who Connects]

9 minutes ago, ZenBossanova said:

The Shin, as they have already collected the other remaining Honorblades. 

Not so much collected as "already had," but I see your point. Come to think of it, I don't think they've ever been under suspicion until now either...

[ZenBossanova]

2 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

Not so much collected as "already had," but I see your point. Come to think of it, I don't think they've ever been under suspicion until now either...

There was a mention of the Shin retrieving Szeth's Honorblade, so they are certainly capable. And if retrieving such a powerful weapon doesn't worry them in the least, then I expect we will see them as fantastically skilled ninjas, similar in form to Szeth. 

[Calderis]

20 minutes ago, ZenBossanova said:

There was a mention of the Shin retrieving Szeth's Honorblade, so they are certainly capable. And if retrieving such a powerful weapon doesn't worry them in the least, then I expect we will see them as fantastically skilled ninjas, similar in form to Szeth. 

And if they have a way to know that Szeth no longer holds his blade, it may be possible that they have some way to detect something about the blades themselves and possibly locate them when their bond is severed.

As Honorblades function differently than Shardblades, and have a "bond" with whoever is holding them, than when Taln dropped his blade in tWoK epilogue rather than willing it to vanish, they may have detected a broken bond and set out to retrieve it. 

I like this. Not only does it fit with them retrieving Szeth's blade, but I can't help but imagine them going to fetch a blade they have to assume is Szeth's and finding a new blade altogether. The panic that this would cause in the Shamanate must be ridiculous, because they know what the blades are and what a new blade would mean. I know they don't have Nale's blade either, but I can't imagine that they couldn't differentiate the two. 

[ZenBossanova]

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

The panic that this would cause in the Shamanate must be ridiculous

They may well know whose blade it is, at least once the blade is back in Shinovar. But yes, Panic, at least at the upper levels of government. And I can easily imagine them not telling anyone, to prevent the nation from panicking (or make those in charge look bad). 

[l_raspberries]

9 hours ago, Radiant_Jaeger said:

Also my ridiculous idea that he IS the blade and is still being tortured in Braise but his cognitive self was splintered and came to roshar inhabiting someone who's mind was already completely broken.

Probably not though since apparently possession is a huge no no..

What do you mean about possession being a no no? Has Brandon talked about that? 

[Yata]

2 hours ago, l_raspberries said:

What do you mean about possession being a no no? Has Brandon talked about that? 

Mind control and possession are incredibile hard for Realmatic Reasons.

You need to broke the subject's soul more than the mundane life could do.

 

[Radiant_Jaeger]

1 hour ago, Yata said:

Mind control and possession are incredibile hard for Realmatic Reasons.

You need to broke the subject's soul more than the mundane life could do.

 

Unless it's cognitive possession, tot those who have an illness that leaves them open to cognitive possession perhaps?

[Yata]

4 hours ago, Radiant_Jaeger said:

Unless it's cognitive possession, tot those who have an illness that leaves them open to cognitive possession perhaps?

I will remain vague because it's not the right subfurum but we know mundane (and also magic) Soul's cracks (beyond a certain treeshold) isn't enough for a Shard-level being to control someone.

[windrunningmistborn]

I'm not sure if this has been asked of Brandon yet, but could Taln have swapped them?

He could have had bonded both an honorblade and a shardblade, and if asked to give up his sword maybe he gave up the shardblade and not let on that he still has another - his honorblade. 

[Yata]

1 hour ago, windrunningmistborn said:

I'm not sure if this has been asked of Brandon yet, but could Taln have swapped them?

He could have had bonded both an honorblade and a shardblade, and if asked to give up his sword maybe he gave up the shardblade and not let on that he still has another - his honorblade. 

How is this possible ?
Taln just arrived from Desolation, He is not really in good mind shape. Much more, he had not time to find a Shardblade, much more to bond with it.

[windrunningmistborn]

Hoid could have provided a shardblade, maybe it wasn't even bonded. Or perhaps it was one he had bonded before his return to damnation.

This subterfuge could be something of a hoax, God knows that Brandon was more than forthcoming that something was amiss here. I just don't know if anyone else has considered this possibility.

[Yata]

22 minutes ago, windrunningmistborn said:

Hoid could have provided a shardblade, maybe it wasn't even bonded. Or perhaps it was one he had bonded before his return to damnation.

A Shardblade's bond (and a Nahel one) is broken when the owner dies.

[The One Who Connects]

7 hours ago, windrunningmistborn said:

Could Taln have swapped them?

Hoid could have provided a Shardblade, maybe it wasn't even bonded.

That, like the "Taravangian's Agent" idea, depends on who you define as a main character, give that "none of the main characters know what happened"

Taln gets a book, so he's automatically main character status, while Hoid is up for debate. Unless Brandon means main characters at the current point in time.... ambiguity

[windrunningmistborn]

11 hours ago, Yata said:

A Shardblade's bond (and a Nahel one) is broken when the owner dies.

Heralds could easily be an exception - they sorta don't die, after all.

I don't know if my idea is a good one, I was more curious about if it had been ruled out.