Paladin Brewer he/him Posted May 8, 2017 Report Share Posted May 8, 2017 Maybe this is a picky question, but how did Vin's earring work? Technically when you get your ear pierced, the piercing heals and it's just a hole, so the earring isn't actually going into your body at that point...it's the equivalent of just holding a spike in a closed hand and that giving Ruin sway, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sovereign Posted May 8, 2017 Report Share Posted May 8, 2017 16 minutes ago, Paladin Brewer said: Maybe this is a picky question, but how did Vin's earring work? Technically when you get your ear pierced, the piercing heals and it's just a hole, so the earring isn't actually going into your body at that point...it's the equivalent of just holding a spike in a closed hand and that giving Ruin sway, no? I get where you are going with this but you need to remember that when a Hemalurgic spike is placed it doesn't just pierce your physical body, it also pierces your Spiritual Aspect. Regardless of the earring hole healing when the earring is in it is still Spiking through Vin's Spiritual Web which is where the effects of Hemalurgy take place (for the most part). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects he/him Posted May 8, 2017 Report Share Posted May 8, 2017 20 minutes ago, Paladin Brewer said: the piercing heals and it's just a hole, so the earring isn't actually going into your body at that point What makes that any different from from an Inquisitor's Eyespike? We know that they can survive having one removed, and any wound can theoretically heal around something to become "just a hole" after enough time. IIRC, there is never any mention of blood when a spike is removed except for Penrod(who is a special case). Basically, The Sovereign is right about the Spiritual Aspect being where the magic happens () but Brandon had to take a liberty about the "needs moving blood in order to work" thing so that Vin (and others) wouldn't just bleed out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted May 8, 2017 Report Share Posted May 8, 2017 1 minute ago, The One Who Connects said: What makes that any different from from an Inquisitor's Eyespike? We know that they can survive having one removed, and any wound can theoretically heal around something to become "just a hole" after enough time. IIRC, there is never any mention of blood when a spike is removed except for Penrod(who is a special case). Basically, The Sovereign is right about the Spiritual Aspect being where the magic happens () but Brandon had to take a liberty about the "needs moving blood in order to work" thing so that Vin (and others) wouldn't just bleed out I always took the "needs moving blood" to be more metaphorical. It just needs to be within a living being. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted May 8, 2017 Report Share Posted May 8, 2017 When first spiking it in it has to contact the moving blood. Then it can heal and you don't need to draw blood every time you put the earring back in. Compare Wax's earring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soyperson Posted May 8, 2017 Report Share Posted May 8, 2017 Sovereign's right, it's more of a Spiritual piercing than a Physical. By the way, you might want to spoiler-tag this topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin Brewer he/him Posted May 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2017 I guess that makes sense, though it obviously still needs the physical realm connection, since once the earring is removed she no longer has Ruin's influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin Brewer he/him Posted May 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 So I still don't get the physical part? The earring (spike, etc) still needs to be a physically in the body for it to work, yes? Clearly when it is removed it stops working Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects he/him Posted May 10, 2017 Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, Paladin Brewer said: So I still don't get the physical part? The earring (spike, etc) still needs to be a physically in the body for it to work, yes? Clearly when it is removed it stops working Basically, all of the Spiritual stuff is based in the spike(the power it grants, how strong it is, etc..) but it still needs the connection to a physical body in order to grant the power to someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted May 10, 2017 Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Paladin Brewer said: So I still don't get the physical part? The earring (spike, etc) still needs to be a physically in the body for it to work, yes? Clearly when it is removed it stops working The spiritual realm is not location dependant. So as far as the spiritual aspect is concerned there needs to be a link between the power in the spike and the person being spiked, because the power never actually moves. The spike being placed into the body creates the link needed for the powers to function in the spiritual realm, and removing the spike severs that link. It's like sticking a USB WiFi device into your computer. The signal is constantly there, but without the peice being inserted the computer can't access it. Edited May 10, 2017 by Calderis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibo Auja Posted May 10, 2017 Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) Heh, i agree with all the arguments BUT! I think It's likely a small oversight designed for a cool reveal. I would place it under the "a wizard did it" folder. All though his books are so cohesive and well thought out. Maybe ear piercings follow special rules. In short what I'm saying is: maybe it's a mistake? Maybe not? Thus I just stole 10 seconds of your life to and made no substantial argument. Now that time is mine, mwa ha ha ha Edited May 10, 2017 by Gibo Auja I no spell write wellz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin Brewer he/him Posted May 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2017 21 hours ago, Calderis said: The spiritual realm is not location dependant. So as far as the spiritual aspect is concerned there needs to be a link between the power in the spike and the person being spiked, because the power never actually moves. The spike being placed into the body creates the link needed for the powers to function in the spiritual realm, and removing the spike severs that link. It's like sticking a USB WiFi device into your computer. The signal is constantly there, but without the peice being inserted the computer can't access it. But that kind of doesn't answer my question....the earring hole heals (or any hole really, eye spikes etc)...so, the earring is no longer in her body, exactly. It would be like if she put the earring between her toes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects he/him Posted May 11, 2017 Report Share Posted May 11, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Paladin Brewer said: But that kind of doesn't answer my question....the earring hole heals (or any hole really, eye spikes etc)...so, the earring is no longer in her body, exactly. It would be like if she put the earring between her toes. Everything functions within all three realms. The earring is Cognitively perceived as "inside her" by herself and anyone who looks at it. Physical Contact, A Cognitive(and somewhat Physical) perception of inside the body, forming the Spiritual Connection that allows the Spike to work. Edited May 11, 2017 by The One Who Connects 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted May 11, 2017 Report Share Posted May 11, 2017 24 minutes ago, Paladin Brewer said: It would be like if she put the earring between her toes. Exactly like @the one who connects (mobile won't let me tag with spaces) says. Holding something and wearing a piercing are perceived very differently. Despite the wound healing it still feels to the wearer as if it's inside their body. Wear it long enough (speaking from experience here) and it feels like part of your body. In addition, you've only healed in the physical realm. In the spiritual realm your body is still whole, so the spiritual link between the spike and your body is intact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 she/her Posted May 14, 2017 Report Share Posted May 14, 2017 I think it's actually perception based. Typically, we view an earring as being in our body (irrespective of the technical reality). If someone viewed their piercing as a hole, and the earring as not penetrating their body then it's possible the spike may not work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted May 14, 2017 Report Share Posted May 14, 2017 8 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said: I think it's actually perception based. Typically, we view an earring as being in our body (irrespective of the technical reality). If someone viewed their piercing as a hole, and the earring as not penetrating their body then it's possible the spike may not work. I really doubt there is a perception component in Hemalurgy. The Spiked One gains the effect without even know to be Spiked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 she/her Posted May 14, 2017 Report Share Posted May 14, 2017 They consider it to be 'piercing' their body though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted May 14, 2017 Report Share Posted May 14, 2017 15 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said: They consider it to be 'piercing' their body though. Not always. Spook for example didn't even know to have a piece of metal inside of himself...but he recived already the Hemalurgical effect. Similar the Koloss and Inquisitors crafting isn't something you could do It wihtout the subject gains. But the trasformation still happen. Hemalurgy works directly ripping and attaching piece of Souls. In its default, I see no place for cognitive and perception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 she/her Posted May 15, 2017 Report Share Posted May 15, 2017 Spook did know he was pierced by metal, he just didn't think about it. The point is that you consider the space in the earring hole part of your body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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