Converting D&D dragons to Cosmere rules

[Landis963]

Hello all.  I am trying to make a D&D world fit with Cosmere rules, in the hopes that eventually I will be running it as a campaign world for my friends.  I have much of it nailed down (e.g., all D&D planes save the Prime Material, the Astral, and the Far Realms no longer exist as planes in their own right, I have Shards in place for multiple magic systems, etc., I have a not-quite Earthlike planetary system in place for visual interest, but all of those are separate topics).  However, what I'm having trouble with is the physiology of the dragons.  (And I want to have dragons because they're in the storming title of the storming system, and I think I can do something interesting with them)  

An adult dragon (upwards of 100 years of age) has not 6 limbs, but 10: 5 pairs of arms, legs, and/or wings, decided upon during their previous age categories.  With age comes an increased facility with manipulating their Cognitive selves, such that they can convert much of their mass into Investiture and in so doing take humanoid shape.  However, how exactly that Investiture gets into their system in the first place is what I'm having trouble pinning down.  D20srd says "A dragon’s metabolism operates like a highly efficient furnace and can metabolize even inorganic material," which I'm sort of using as a starting point, but the details beyond that elude me.  Do they ingest Investiture-viable things like Mistborn do?  Do they absorb it directly like Taldaini sand does or like Knights Radiant do?  Do they go a third route altogether?  I'm not certain.  And this one question will decide a lot of other things about how dragons work.  

Edited April 30, 2017 by Landis963

[Quiver]

Tgaging in @Claincy, since I'm pretty sure he's the resident RPG expert, and could probably be more help to you in hammering out this stuff than I would be!

As far as what we know about dragons based on the Cosmere... I don't think we have enough information to really say. About all we know about dragons is that they exist, and that at least one of them is sapient and intelligent. 

[Alfa]

The only placew so far we visited in the Cosmere that had a magic system flexible enough to create Dragons and the like is Sel. E.G. a unholy combination of AonDor and DahkorDor for twisting somebody's body into something entirely different - that is, assuming the Dragon won't go full Nightblood in the sense of corrupted investiture. Anyway, that is something you could probably work with.

[Landis963]

1 hour ago, Alfa said:

The only placew so far we visited in the Cosmere that had a magic system flexible enough to create Dragons and the like is Sel. E.G. a unholy combination of AonDor and DahkorDor for twisting somebody's body into something entirely different - that is, assuming the Dragon won't go full Nightblood in the sense of corrupted investiture. Anyway, that is something you could probably work with.

I'm assuming that there's two Shards, one that died and got Splintered into a Dor-like state, and another that's making sure that Initiated people of every stripe can use their powers anywhere.  

As far as "creating" a dragon... I'm assuming that they'd be closer to the listeners in physiology than they would be to a Nightblood, or even a seon.  Namely, they would be flesh-and-blood creatures that through some mechanism would absorb Investiture into themselves, which they would then use to fuel things like transformations, breath weapons, etc.  ETA: Indeed, the lack of concrete info on Frost or any other dragon, Yolese or otherwise, is really helpful in that regard.  

Edited April 29, 2017 by Landis963

[Kingsdaughter613]

Both Shards on Sel are splintered, so I'm a little confused by the last post. As for dragons, one of the few things we do know is that they existed on Yolen prior to the Shattering, so they aught to use Adonalsium's investiture. Not sure if that helps or not.

Do you think you could PM me about how you did Scadrian investiture in D&D rules? I'm trying to figure that one out myself.

[Landis963]

1 hour ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Both Shards on Sel are splintered, so I'm a little confused by the last post. As for dragons, one of the few things we do know is that they existed on Yolen prior to the Shattering, so they aught to use Adonalsium's investiture. Not sure if that helps or not.

Do you think you could PM me about how you did Scadrian investiture in D&D rules? I'm trying to figure that one out myself.

Re: the Dor:  I know.  Literally the only reason I have one of those in the first place is because of the sheer breadth of spell effects D&D has on offer.  And I have the surviving Shard there to get around the pesky issue of casters not being able to cast outside their homelands.  

Re: Adonalsium: I'm assuming that there's a second Adonalsium, that Shattered into different pieces, in the area of space where this planet is.  (I'm embracing the power of convenient assumptions here)  So if we want dragons to use "blank" Investiture we should probably figure out how they get it.  

Re: Scadrian Investiture: I don't think the Metallic Arts are something that D&D is equipped to handle.  

Edited April 30, 2017 by Landis963

[Claincy]

A few thoughts:

-I don't think the regional magic on Sel is to do with a shard being splintered. I think it's to do with that splintered power residing in the cognitive realm instead of the spiritual realm. It's possible that splintering a shard involves moving the power into the cognitive realm (or causes that to happen) but we don't have another example.

-I think you're probably right that the dragons would use investiture in a less destructive way than Nightblood, more like the Listeners.

-I think the simplest possibility for the dragons gaining investiture is just that they metabolize food into it like Lift. There is WoB that Lift is unique but that was in response to a question about other surge binders so I think it's reasonably possible that others in the Cosmere can.

-I think it might be possible to make the Metallic Arts work in 5e D&D. Not the most natural fit though...I might have a crack at this later.

[Landis963]

1 hour ago, Claincy said:

A few thoughts:

-I don't think the regional magic on Sel is to do with a shard being splintered. I think it's to do with that splintered power residing in the cognitive realm instead of the spiritual realm. It's possible that splintering a shard involves moving the power into the cognitive realm (or causes that to happen) but we don't have another example.

-I think you're probably right that the dragons would use investiture in a less destructive way than Nightblood, more like the Listeners.

-I think the simplest possibility for the dragons gaining investiture is just that they metabolize food into it like Lift. There is WoB that Lift is unique but that was in response to a question about other surge binders so I think it's reasonably possible that others in the Cosmere can.

-I think it might be possible to make the Metallic Arts work in 5e D&D. Not the most natural fit though...I might have a crack at this later.

1.  I think Khriss confirmed that in AU, actually.  I was also of the opinion that the programming-like nature of Sel's magics was a side-effect of the Dor being in the Cognitive Realm.  In keeping with my embrace of convenient assumptions, I'm assuming that whatever is fueling D&D's magics is in a Dor-like state.  Hence the presence of another Shard so that I the GM don't need to say "your powers don't work here" to any of my players.  

2.  Yes, but how?  Rosharan magics can say "a spren did it," (And that goes for Lift as well) but the rest of the world design already cribs very heavily from Roshar.  

3.  Would they hatch with that ability, or is it something they learn how to do as they gain spells and class levels?  Because I haven't decided whether I want the focus to be crystals or sands, and I think I can see avenues of approach for all 4 possibilities.  

• On hatch, focus is crystals: They have a gemheart.  
• As they grow, focus is crystals: They eat gemstones and store them in a crop or gizzard. 
• On hatch, focus is sands: amniotic fluid from eggs dries into an Investiture-viable powder, which then is absorbed into the skin of the wyrmling.  (this one seems like it's the most original, now I think of it)
• As they grow, focus is sands: as with crystals, except the gemstones serve the purpose of gizzard stones, and get ground down in that process.  

4.  I just had another thought:  Aluminum would be downright lethal to creatures that use the Cognitive Realm so heavily (as I believe dragons in the D&D mold would).  I think I know what Armaments of Dragon Slaying are made of now.  

Edited April 30, 2017 by Landis963