Graves's true identity

[Ironeyes]

I just finished a re-read of WoR, and it struck me as interesting that Graves has Shardplate as well as his Blade. There are plenty of characters who keep a secret Blade, but hiding Plate is a lot harder. My assumption is that "Graves" is a pseudonym and he's secretly one of the other lighteyed Shardbearers attached to one of the highprinces--possibly even one that Adolin attempted to duel. So let's do some speculation here: who is this guy really? 

[Weltall]

Plate is harder to hide but we see Moash manage it when fleeing with Graves at the end of the book so it's hardly impossible to hide multiple sets of the stuff. If you can't hide it that easily and you get really desperate (and have access to a lot of Stormlight) you could even hack the Plate up with your Blade, dispose of all but one piece that's easier to conceal and then use that to regrow the entire set over time. As long as nobody finds any of the other pieces first and starts regenerating it before you do, you could 'hide' a set of the stuff fairly easily. Actually, this could become a pretty handy infiltration tactic if you need to slip a set of Plate into a location where you will be searched somewhat more thoroughly, have a safe location to leave most of your Plate and enough time and gemstones to restore the set from a seed piece once inside the security perimeter before you need to do whatever brought you there.

As for Graves' possible identities, Shardbearers are pretty well-known so and so are their shards. If Graves was really someone prominent, his Blade would give away his true identity to anyone who saw it and survived to describe it (the Plate less so since that can be painted and ornamented). This doesn't necessarily preclude him from having a double-identity but it's a risk factor that should be considered when analyizing whether or not it's probable that he has one. Ditto Shardbearers themselves being celebrities, so Graves would have to be very careful about who sees him to avoid the risk of blowing his cover. I think that until given a good reason to suspect otherwise, it's safe to assume that he really is an unaffiliated Diagrammist who just happens to have a full set of shards, just like Taravangian happens to have an Honorblade and at least one soulcaster he's not supposed to.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Weltall

[Frostlander]

That does bring up the interesting fact that Shallan is drawing shardplate because it happens to be very poorly documented. The scene does give her an excuse to watch training, but there's no way Sanderson introduced this big gap in their recordkeeping unless it would serve the plot later on. It could be for Graves, or in preparation for a large-scale betrayal, or even a surprise rescue. Lots of possibilities.

[ARARITA he/him]

I just finished a reread of WoR as well - I don't remember but does he show up in shardplate on the pinnacle with Moash , Kal ,and the king ?  It would indeed make him very conspicuous - I believe now that Graves has to be someone - could be wrong but then someone walking around in shardplate would at least make them more memorable / recognizable ...

[Calderis he/him]

Graves is a Diagramist. Even if his actions show that he doesn't agree with Mr. T's interpretation of the Diagram, he is still connected to that group. 

Due to that, I think his pseudonym makes perfect sense. He's not from Alethkar, even if he has Alethi blood. He would be recognized as a Shardbearer where he's from, but he's an unknown in Alethkar. If people knew his name they may have heard of him, or it could be used to track down where he is from. 

I'm pretty sure he's an outside player though, and we'll learn more about him via Moash. 

[Pagerunner he/him]

It's an interesting idea, but here's my concern. Graves wants Dalinar to be king. Every Shardbearer who supports Dalinar was with him in the middle of the Shattered Plains during Graves' assassination attempt. Except for Amaram, but Kaladin would have most likely recognized him. (Okay, fine, he would have for sure recognized him.) And Elhokar, who I'm pretty sure isn't Graves, either.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

15 hours ago, Pagerunner said:

It's an interesting idea, but here's my concern. Graves wants Dalinar to be king. Every Shardbearer who supports Dalinar was with him in the middle of the Shattered Plains during Graves' assassination attempt. Except for Amaram, but Kaladin would have most likely recognized him. (Okay, fine, he would have for sure recognized him.) And Elhokar, who I'm pretty sure isn't Graves, either.

Amaram has his own motives. I would not really call him a Dalinar supporter. He likes Dalinar, but he is working for someone else.

I dont see why Graves has to be someone else. First off, do we know for a fact that his shards are unregistered? And even if they are, it is possible that he is just a random guy named Graves, who happens to have shards?

[Farnsworth]

He could always be a Radiant with his own shards. Maybe a Willshaper? They are called "capricious, frustrating, unreliable" so it makes sense that they would be annoying like that.

[Spoolofwhool]

40 minutes ago, Figberts said:

He could always be a Radiant with his own shards. Maybe a Willshaper? They are called "capricious, frustrating, unreliable" so it makes sense that they would be annoying like that.

His shards weren't glowing though. I suppose he could've figured out a way to repress the glow.

[Farnsworth]

And the eye change. Maybe he can do Illumination?

[Weltall]

Graves being a Radiant is somewhat less probable than him happening to have a secret identity: The Diagram cautions Taravangian to prevent Radiants from emerging (by trying to identify candidates and avoid putting them in situations that would strengthen their spren bonds, this was part of what Graves was even trying to do with Kaladin) and to be ready to use 'the secret' to destroy them if necessary.

[grayhicks]

well, people i think are forgetting that kaladin would not have recognised all the shardbearers in the camps. he wasnt a light eyed noble himself, so he wasnt a member of the social circles that the shardbearers would be part of. he only recently became the head of dalinar's bodyguard, likely not enough time to acquaint himself with the bearers on sight or description. and elhokar was drunk and injured, no fit state to recognise his own mother. it is possible that Graves is from a different warcamp, a shardbearer that adolin or dalinar may have met before kaladin made rank. someone that likely could get into dalinar's warcamp with out fuss or comment. but not necessarily so important that he would be pulled into the constant company of adolin's peers.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

Even though I dont want Graves to be someone else, I want to point out that when he introduces himself to Kaladin he says:

"call me Graves"

Now, I am from Sweden, so I dont know wether this is a normal way of introducing yourself in the english language. But to me the "call me" makes it sound like Graves could be a nickname/false name of some sort. 

Someone who knows English better than me to comment on this?

[dyring]

The diagram likely gave hints to finding lost shards, given how many there was originally and how many are now known. Its not that odd that Mr T would give them out to his followers, nor that they would be unknown.

Graves is obviously not a radiant, mainly because the shard would glow wich it doesent, but also because he would not be quite that scared of a new radiant appearing as he is shown to be when Kaladin emerges as a full one.

 

[Calderis he/him]

16 minutes ago, Chull #445 said:

Even though I dont want Graves to be someone else, I want to point out that when he introduces himself to Kaladin he says:

"call me Graves"

Now, I am from Sweden, so I dont know wether this is a normal way of introducing yourself in the english language. But to me the "call me" makes it sound like Graves could be a nickname/false name of some sort. 

Someone who knows English better than me to comment on this?

He's definitely hiding his real name. The reason why is what we don't know.

As a Diagramist, him being a Radiant is out like @Weltall stated. Anyone who follows the diagram is going to be anti Radiant on principle.

I still vote he's foreign born with Alethi blood. His real name would still be a problem, as it would link him back to his Alethi bloodline. It also makes him a damnation near perfect spy for the situation. Alethi blood means he can blend in, without being recognized as a shardbearer. 

[Farnsworth]

9 hours ago, Chull #445 said:

Even though I dont want Graves to be someone else, I want to point out that when he introduces himself to Kaladin he says:

"call me Graves"

Now, I am from Sweden, so I dont know wether this is a normal way of introducing yourself in the english language. But to me the "call me" makes it sound like Graves could be a nickname/false name of some sort. 

Someone who knows English better than me to comment on this?

Yes, you are correct. This is an extremely odd way to introduce yourself.

[Weltall]

@Figberts

12 hours ago, Chull #445 said:

"call me Graves"

Spoiler: Graves' real name is Ishmael.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

34 minutes ago, Weltall said:

@Figberts

Spoiler: Graves' real name is Ishmael.

Or it is Vivenna. Storms guys, we might have found where she is!