Theory of Resonance

[Spoolofwhool]

52 minutes ago, Chull #445 said:

Amaram wakes up one morning as a Lightweaver. Would he have the same memory perk as Shallan, or would it be something different for him?

All resonances from a pair of powers are similar, but not identical. Another Lightweaver would have a memory ability like Shallan's, but it wouldn't necessarily be the same. For example, I think you could have a Lightweaver who is extremely good at memorizing sounds. Editing this to opinion unless I can find a source.

Edited April 9, 2017 by Spoolofwhool

[Oversleep]

11 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Another Lightweaver would have a memory ability like Shallan's, but it wouldn't necessarily be the same. For example, you could have a Lightweaver who is extremely good at memorizing sounds.

Do we have a source for that? The best I know is the quote from the Words of Radiance (in-world):

Quote

Considering the order’s general temperament, the tales of their strange and varied mnemonic abilities may have been embellished.

Not disagreeing with you, just asking.

Anyway, there has been some confusion in this topic. Let me just say this: Resonance is the additional effect of blending two (or possibly more but not too much) powers together. For example Resonance of Gravity and Adhesion is "strenght of the squires" which means "unnatural number and strength of Windrunner's squires" and Resonance of Illumination and Transformation are mnemonic abilities. None of these Resonances have to do with how the original powers are used.
It's also implied the Resonance of Gravity and Division is the ability to sense guilt and theorized that Resonance of Abrasion and Progression is something about communicating in tune with the other person (Lift catching the street slang intuitively, the "refined" part of Edgedancers coming from them interacting with refined people).

While we know usage of the same Surge by different Orders is not exactly the same, we also know it's largely the same:

Quote

Q: Is the crossover surge for each Knight the same?

A: To an extent, yes. Each of the combinations make a little bit of a tweak to how things act. But when you see the Skybreakers affecting gravity it will look much the same as what you saw on the Windrunners.

source

[Spoolofwhool]

7 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

Do we have a source for that? The best I know is the quote from the Words of Radiance (in-world):

There's also this:

Quote

ARGENT

Shallan has this awesome Memory thing going on, Jasnah has this geolocation thing, Kaladin is a really good fighter - are those just their traits, or is there something supernatural going on?

BRANDON SANDERSON

There is something supernatural about those. Each Order... Well, how about this. If you look at scholars' interpretations, there are some scholars who think that these things are not supernatural, and some who think that they are. But, if you look, many Lightweavers had powerful mnemonic abilities.

[Source[

I feel like there was something else I've seen regarding it, but I can't find it.

[Oversleep]

Yeah, I know that one (just forgot about it). I was asking specifically about that memorizing sounds thing, I thought I may have missed some WoB.

[Calderis he/him]

Am I remembering incorrectly or was Tien confirmed as a Proto-lightweaver and his ultra realistic horse sculpture was attributed to his manifesting mnemonic ability prior to him even using surges? I may be misremembering an old theory, but I swear I remember that. 

[Spoolofwhool]

2 hours ago, Oversleep said:

Yeah, I know that one (just forgot about it). I was asking specifically about that memorizing sounds thing, I thought I may have missed some WoB.

Yeah, I can't find anything about that so I might've just seen it in a theory. I feel like it was a WoB though. Modified the phrasing of that comment appropriately. 

Edit: Someone else says the WoB sounds familiar so I'll keep digging for it.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Spoolofwhool

[Silarn]

3 hours ago, Oversleep said:

While we know usage of the same Surge by different Orders is not exactly the same, we also know it's largely the same:

This quote isn't exactly a refutation. I feel like this assumption of exactly what a resonance is equates to groupthink. I might be willing to concede the point if it weren't for this quote:

Quote

It’s...yes a “side effect”, it’s like, when the powers merge, they are always slightly different. For instance, Lightweaving from a Truthwatcher is different slightly--there will be things. So, you’re gave access to the Surges, but in combinations, they act a little differently from one another.

Which more or less gels with your last quote - but is Brandon elaborating on what he considers a "resonance" to be. So again: I believe it's possible there's both resonance in the sense of alterations or additions to how powers work due to the combination as well as spiritual side effects such as the mnemonic device. In addition, if there are different forms of the mnemonic device, then that suggests it isn't the main reason why the ability would be "different slightly" for a Truthwatcher. If your mnemonic device is not visual, it wouldn't aid you in making elaborate illusions.

In effect a resonance is anything that happens due to a small set of powers merging.

[Spoolofwhool]

23 minutes ago, Silarn said:

If your mnemonic device is not visual, it wouldn't aid you in making elaborate illusions.

Not necessarily. Lightweaving can create sounds.

[Silarn]

1 minute ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Not necessarily. Lightweaving can create sounds.

Sure, but then lightweaving is also 'different' between different Lightweavers - so why point out the difference between Truthwatchers specifically? Besides that,

Quote

Each of the combinations make a little bit of a tweak to how things act.

also supports the idea that there are differences, even if small, in how the powers combine.

[Spoolofwhool]

18 minutes ago, Silarn said:

Sure, but then lightweaving is also 'different' between different Lightweavers - so why point out the difference between Truthwatchers specifically? Besides that,

also supports the idea that there are differences, even if small, in how the powers combine.

Indeed. No one has said that each order binds a surge the same way as the adjacent order. However, what we're saying is that that difference is not part of the technical definition of resonance generally accepted canon definition of the term resonance.

Edit: Fixing terminology because implications on precision

Edited April 10, 2017 by Spoolofwhool

[Silarn]

Just now, Spoolofwhool said:

Indeed. No one has said that each order binds a surge the same way as the adjacent order. However, what we're saying is that that difference is not part of the technical definition of resonance.

Okay, who, exactly, has defined the "technical definition"?

[Spoolofwhool]

14 minutes ago, Silarn said:

Okay, who, exactly, has defined the "technical definition"?

Presumable Brandon has, but it hasn't been explicitly stated. Probably the next closest is Khriss' small blurb about combining powers in the Ars Arcanum of Shadows of Self or Bands of Mourning. However, since you seem to be attacking so hard, I'll clarify and correct myself. "Technical definition" was an incorrect term to use I guess, since it implies a precision which we have not been given. However, under what is generally understood to be the canon definition of the term resonances, it does not encompass nuances in how the powers are used, but rather an external effect which can indirectly affect the usage of the powers.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Spoolofwhool

[Yata he/him]

2 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Like Spool and other said. For the things we know for now about the Resonance. Probably the extra power could be exploit to use a Surge in a way someone else can't. But It's not something builded in the Surge itself.

For example (I think I already wrote this example):

The Progression Surge requires a good mental Image of the Illusion to make.

A Lightweaver with his Memory could provide this mental Image with an effort different from someone Who has no Memory. Maybe a Truthwatcher Need time to build and refine his Illusion...I Imagine we will discovery this Soon. But this don't change the actual Illumination effect or rules.

It's possible there are resonance that affect directly the Surges...But It's not the the default way they work.

[Farnsworth]

Jasnah's soulcasti g is essentially the same as Shallan's, right? If that's the case, then how do their two different orders manifest in their soulcasting then?

[Yata he/him]

6 minutes ago, Figberts said:

Jasnah's soulcasti g is essentially the same as Shallan's, right? If that's the case, then how do their two different orders manifest in their soulcasting then?

Maybe Jasnah could use her Surges in sequence. Trasportation to reach at least in the Cognitive the target and the Trasformation one. Or maybe her show with the rogues were simply dictate by her Soulcasting's skill, something also Shallan soon or later could reach

[Jondesu he/him]

Just now, Yata said:

Maybe Jasnah could use her Surges in sequence. Trasportation to reach at least in the Cognitive the target and the Trasformation one. Or maybe her show with the rogues were simply dictate by her Soulcasting's skill, something also Shallan soon or later could reach

I'm personally of the opinion that Shallan won't be able to duplicate that, and that it was likely only possible by combining the Surges of Transportation and Transformation.  I could always be wrong (I'm good at that, heh), but it just strikes me as a very logical and Brandon-esque explanation.

[Yata he/him]

8 hours ago, Jondesu said:

I'm personally of the opinion that Shallan won't be able to duplicate that, and that it was likely only possible by combining the Surges of Transportation and Transformation.  I could always be wrong (I'm good at that, heh), but it just strikes me as a very logical and Brandon-esque explanation.

I mainly agree with you but It's still a grey area.

For example if someone enters in "Soulcasting mode". There is something preventing him to take a couple of Step and Soulcast a bead slightly beyond his reach in the physical ?

If I don't remember wrong Shallan too were able to "feel" the near beads and their counterpart. So at least in theory It's not really beyond the possibilities.

Maybe the Elsecallers are more free to move between the Realms to this purpose...But the contactless Soulcast (at least at close range) seems to be something possible to Lightweaver too

Edited April 14, 2017 by Yata

[animalia]

Has anyone heard of the real world concept of Emergence? I feel like that is a good way to talk about resonance.