Theory of Resonance

[Silarn]

Okay, so I initially proposed this as a possible Coppermind article, but I think the theory can apply to quite a few things we've seen so far in the Cosmere.

Based on some recent interviews, particularly [1] these [2] questions from this Q&A, Brandon spitballs and generally agrees with a concept called Resonance - whether or not that ends up being an official term.

In essence, it's the interaction between, and side effects of, the combination of two or more magic abilities. The abilities don't necessarily have to be from different Shards or even systems, though I imagine the side effects could be even weirder in these situations.

This initially came from the suggestion of Lift having some kind of Perk based on her two Bindings. We don't know what it is yet, but Brandon more or less agreed with the concept and extrapolated that the Lightweaving of a Truthwatcher and a Lightweaver would be fundamentally different in some way. We can thus extrapolate that a Skybreaker's Gravitational bindings are going to be different to those of a Windrunner. Think about the combination of Gravitaion and Adhesion. Essentially - you're adhering gravity between different things. This thing will attract that thing (using gravity). I think Skybreakers may actually cause objects to repel with their lashings, and they may fly by essentially removing their connection to gravity and then repelling from a surface. One force is the same, but their interaction with it is totally different because of how the two Surges combine.

This concept extends to other systems though. Much later on, someone asks if Waxillium has a Resonance, and Brandon suggests specifically his ability to bend projectiles around himself. His shield is related to this but not the totality of it. Wax himself is approaching or has reached Savant status with perhaps both of his metals - steel and iron - and this allows him to even more finely control this ability to bend trajectories - in addition to his reflexive use of the 'shield'. In a sense, he may actually be, perhaps even subconsciously, adjusting his weight on the fly to more carefully adjust his pushes and pulls - allowing for these feats.

It's also stated that Wayne indeed has a Resonance, but it's not "as obvious" and is then RAFO'd.

Moving back to Lift, we also know that she has some sort of Curse and Boon from the old magic. The interactions between this magic and her Surgebinding is probably also a kind of Resonance - which has caused her partial presence in the cognitive and ability to metabolize Stormlight and touch Spren. I think it's unlikely that these are her actual Curse and Boon.

Are there any other combinations we know about where we can detect effects of "Resonance" such as these?

 

After considering Brandon's answers more closely, I believe "merging" is a key word for Resonance, in this sense. A twinborn is going to have little to no Resonance if he or she is very new to their abilities. They're essentially going to be using them as individual powers. However, since Wax is at or approaching savant status with his abilities, they've started merging at a spiritual level. This merging brings out the Resonance between his abilities and allows him to bend trajectories with precision.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Silarn
Better links

[Yata]

I am not sure to follow you.

We know the Windrunner and Lightweaving's one and they don't affect the Surges usage. Sure some other Resonance could affect the Surges and give to the user a slight different Surge in pratical usage...But this is not the default case, no all the Surges are influenced by the other One.

PS: could you post here the wob about Truthwatcher and Ligtweaver's Illumination Surge ? Because i probably never see that

[Silarn]

@Yata I linked it in the op. "This q&a". Also, I don't believe Windrunners and Lightweavers share a common Surge type, so you can't really compare them beyond basic Surgebinding mechanics. There's no common Surge ability you can compare between the two.

 

We do know that Nale is capable of flight, akin to a Windrunner. However, since he has not yet been a point of view character, we can't be certain his version of flight is identical. That bring said, it could well be the ability of Windrunners to draw multiple objects to an invested object that is a true "resonance" effect. It seems to subtly combine both connection and gravity without requiring a direct lashing to each individual object.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Silarn

[Calderis]

8 minutes ago, Silarn said:

@Yata I linked it in the op. "This q&a". Also, I don't believe Windrunners and Lightweavers share a common Surge type, so you can't really compare them beyond basic Surgebinding mechanics. There's no common Surge ability you can compare between the two.

He was referring to us knowing the resonance for each order. Stronger and more numerous squires for Windrunners, and the pneumonic device (Shallan's mental "pictures") for Lightweavers.

His point was that in both cases, their resonance has no effect on the surges they use. 

[Silarn]

15 minutes ago, Calderis said:

He was referring to us knowing the resonance for each order. Stronger and more numerous squires for Windrunners, and the pneumonic device (Shallan's mental "pictures") for Lightweavers.

His point was that in both cases, their resonance has no effect on the surges they use. 

Hmm. Those may be yet additional forms of resonance. I should have linked to the correct qa questions. I can edit my post shortly.

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1182#41 is a big one, though, and Sanderson says quite clearly that Lightweaving/Illuminating is a bit different for a Truthwatcher than for a Lightweaver. We have yet to see two Orders use the same surge ability from a PoV character, so you can't say for certain that they are identical for different Orders.

[Yata]

9 minutes ago, Silarn said:

Probably I was unclear Sorry.  Before I asked the WoB because Theoryland is blocked at work's network.

Anyway I am sligthy aganist multiple Resonances. It's possible Truthwatcher's resonance allow/Force them to use the Power differently. (For example without the Memory, they have to slowly "build" the Illusion.

Notice also the Surge could work also alone in theory (with Fabrial or through Foreign Magic Systems) or with more than another Surge...(a Radiant with an Honorblade).

[Silarn]

@Yata I'm not sure where to find it in WoB, but Brandon's direct quote doesn't seem to support that idea:

Quote

BRANDON SANDERSON

It’s...yes a “side effect”, it’s like, when the powers merge, they are always slightly different. For instance, Lightweaving from a Truthwatcher is different slightly--there will be things. So, you’re gave access to the Surges, but in combinations, they act a little differently from one another.

I think it's possible that, without Connection, perhaps you can only lash a given object in a direction. But by adding connection, you gain the ability to connect gravity to a specific object. Or it could change the nature of lashing altogether, since lashing implies a connection of sorts.

 

Edit: Closest I can find is here: 

however, the answers are less detailed and paraphrased much more.

 

Also added a little to the op about merging powers being a little requirement - rather than simply having the two powers independently.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Silarn

[Genesis]

Would wax's weird interaction with conservation of momentum also be considered part of the Crasher resonances?

[Yata]

34 minutes ago, Genesis said:

Would wax's weird interaction with conservation of momentum also be considered part of the Crasher resonances?

Nah that is Simply a mechanical consequence of his Powers. Not a specific resonance of being a Crasher.

Also Rashek could do it. While the Resonances are something denied to someone with too powers

[Genesis]

Ah I had it a Bit backwards in my head, but it makes sense, halving his weight would double his velocity (conserving his momentum) good Ol physics!

Edited April 5, 2017 by Genesis

[Spoolofwhool]

So the thing is, you're confusing two mechanics. Resonances are a branch of effects which manifests within a person who bears at least two powers, without bearing too many. The effect does not directly affect how the powers creating it are used. For windrunners, their resonance is the strength of their squires, for lightweavers, it is a memory power. 

What you seem to be attributing resonances to be is simply interactions between different branches of surgebinding, which is quite different. Furthermore, I disagree with your assessment that Skybreakers fly by binding the surge of gravitation differently. 

Edgedancer spoilers

Spoiler

We see two Skybreakers fly, and they have the exact same falling motion as windrunners. If there were doing something differently like how you suggested, that motion wouldn't occur. 

Overall, I don't think the basic lashing involves adhesion. You're not really adhering gravity (or creating pressure of the surge is properly called,) you're just changing spiritual connections. 

[Silarn]

6 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

So the thing is, you're confusing two mechanics.

I suppose. But then, if I am you have to assume Brandon is as well. That quote directly contradicts the idea that the powers are going to be exactly the same with different surge combos - even if core mechanics remain the same.

Is there a source on the 'too many' thing? I haven't seen one yet, just speculation. Though I'm not against the idea, I think someone with a lot of powers could still manifest a resonance if they are much more invested in a smaller combination of powers. I'm of mind that resonances can take multiple forms, both on a power level and on a more innate spiritual level. Wax's ability to instinctively pop up his deflection bubble would be a spiritual effect - something affecting a person's innate capabilities. While the ability to bend trajectories (rather than simply repelling, as most Coinshots do) is the manifestation of the powers combining.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Silarn

[Yata]

1 hour ago, Silarn said:

Is there a source on the 'too many' thing? I haven't seen one yet, just speculation.

yeah (link)

Quote

Yata:  There is something that recently was debade by some fans and I hope you may give some clue about the "side effect of interaction between magic" as was pointed in the Twinborn and Surgebinder Cases: Are those "perks" stackable ? To say if I am a Fullborn like Rashek, wil I have all the possible Twinborn's perks or a specific "Fullborn's perk" ? And about the same topic, a Mistborn or Full Feruchemist has his own perk/perks ?

Brandon: I've worked under the premise that if you hold too many of the powers, like a Mistborn, the result is a loss of these little quirks. The mechanics of it are interesting, but I'll leave you to theorize on that sort of thing.

 

[Spoolofwhool]

1 hour ago, Silarn said:

I suppose. But then, if I am you have to assume Brandon is as well. That quote directly contradicts the idea that the powers are going to be exactly the same with different surge combos - even if core mechanics remain the same.

Is there a source on the 'too many' thing? I haven't seen one yet, just speculation. Though I'm not against the idea, I think someone with a lot of powers could still manifest a resonance if they are much more invested in a smaller combination of powers. I'm of mind that resonances can take multiple forms, both on a power level and on a more innate spiritual level. Wax's ability to instinctively pop up his deflection bubble would be a spiritual effect - something affecting a person's innate capabilities. While the ability to bend trajectories (rather than simply repelling, as most Coinshots do) is the manifestation of the powers combining.

Which quote are you talking about? This one?

Quote

BRANDON SANDERSON

It’s...yes a “side effect”, it’s like, when the powers merge, they are always slightly different. For instance, Lightweaving from a Truthwatcher is different slightly--there will be things. So, you’re gave access to the Surges, but in combinations, they act a little differently from one another.

ARGENT

So is the Edgedancer’s Resonance something to do with communication? Because we see Lift…

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yeah, yeah we’ll RAFO that.

FOOTNOTE

In the answer, "Lightweaving" should be Illuminating instead (Lightweaving is an order, Illumination is the surge)

If so, I'm not saying the powers will work the exact same way, but when you've got something as basic as the basic lashing, which I believe is just gravitation, it's going to be practically identical for Windrunners and Skybreakers.

Here's the source on too many powers meaning that you don't get any resonances. Go away @Yata you ninja. I was working on this longer.

I'm a bit doubtful on accepting that Wax's resonance is because of his ability to sculpt things away from him with allomancy. The main reason is because it's been said that it has to do with savantism and resonance, and since Brandon is changing his idea of how savantism will work to a degree, this could be affected. Also, it's strange to me because it's directly related to his power. I'm more thinking that his resonance has to do with awareness of high-speed objects which is how he was able to deflect a bullet off another bullet, which then indirectly enhances his steelpushing powers.

[Silarn]

6 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

I'm a bit doubtful on accepting that Wax's resonance is because of his ability to sculpt things away from him with allomancy. The main reason is because it's been said that it has to do with savantism and resonance, and since Brandon is changing his idea of how savantism will work to a degree, this could be affected. Also, it's strange to me because it's directly related to his power. I'm more thinking that his resonance has to do with awareness of high-speed objects which is how he was able to deflect a bullet off another bullet, which then indirectly enhances his steelpushing powers.

Thanks for the quote. Yeah, and that's what I'm getting at with my last post here. A spiritual resonance helps to explain the more random-seeming perks - personal benefits that aren't directly related to the abilities of the investitures. But pay attention to Brandon here:

Quote

ARGENT

Staying on Scadrial, have we seen the Resonances of either Wax or Wayne?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes, well, Wax is really good a sculpting bullets and things away from him.

ARGENT

The bubble.

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yeah and things like this. This is playing with the fact that he is-- let’s just say that the abilities make this happen, and I’ll let you theorize on why, but it’s just an enhancement to what he can do

His first response is not "the bubble" - the questioner brings it up assuming that's what it is, but Brandon specifically says it's that he "is really good at sculpting bullets and things away from him." The bubble is a part of it - "and things like this."

This all implies that resonances can be both the ways how different magics interact and blend together in use - as well as secondary spiritual effects that extend the person's own capabilities in perhaps unexpected ways.

[Djarskublar]

I will say that I agree that Wax's resonance isn't the bubble itself, it is something he can create more easily due to the actual resonance. Like, maybe his resonance is that he can instinctively know the mass of something and adjust his power use to match it. Just like Shallan's memory trick allows her to create vastly complex and detailed illusions. My bet is that Truthwatchers won't be able to do that as easily, but they will be able to do some other nifty thing that Shallan would have trouble with.

As for Wayne, my guess is that his resonance has to do with how he can put up a bubble and heal off damage. I.e. when he is shot and goes unconscious, unlike most Allomancers, he would instinctively burn bendalloy so he can heal faster. That is not super obvious, and would be hard to see in book.

Also, what happens when you tap the Bands? You are temporarily a Fullborn, and should have no resonances. The powers are temporary, so if Shallan tapped the Bands, would she be able to take a Memory while tapping? Maybe I'll message Brandon about it...

[Spoolofwhool]

48 minutes ago, Djarskublar said:

I will say that I agree that Wax's resonance isn't the bubble itself, it is something he can create more easily due to the actual resonance. Like, maybe his resonance is that he can instinctively know the mass of something and adjust his power use to match it. Just like Shallan's memory trick allows her to create vastly complex and detailed illusions. My bet is that Truthwatchers won't be able to do that as easily, but they will be able to do some other nifty thing that Shallan would have trouble with.

Yes, something like this. I'm also imagining that it's also augmenting his marksmanship a bit, which is how he was able to pull off the deflection trick in AoL. Otherwise, I find it hard to believe someone could actually pull that off. 

[Silarn]

@Djarskublar I think that's a reasonable theory. At the very least we can ask better questions now - if they aren't RFAO'd.

[Jondesu]

19 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

My bet is that Truthwatchers won't be able to do that as easily, but they will be able to do some other nifty thing that Shallan would have trouble with.

I wonder if Truthwatchers will have an easier time creating illusions of things that really exist? Or, since I think maybe the interaction of Transformation (soulcasting) and Illumination is what helps Shallan so easily bring to life the images she creates (and it's implied that she could do much more), perhaps Progression interacting with Illumination would allow for illusions that could…grow?  I dunno, that's a harder one to place.

Edit: that quote should be of @Djarskublar

Edited April 7, 2017 by Jondesu

[Spoolofwhool]

55 minutes ago, Jondesu said:

I wonder if Truthwatchers will have an easier time creating illusions of things that really exist? Or, since I think maybe the interaction of Transformation (soulcasting) and Illumination is what helps Shallan so easily bring to life the images she creates (and it's implied that she could do much more), perhaps Progression interacting with Illumination would allow for illusions that could…grow?  I dunno, that's a harder one to place.

How did you manage to quote from my quote and attribute it to me?

[Jondesu]

10 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

How did you manage to quote from my quote and attribute it to me?

Uh, I have no idea. Didn't even realize I did.

[The One Who Connects]

4 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

How did you manage to quote from my quote and attribute it to me?

@Jondesu: If you quote something in a quote bubble, it attributes it to the person whose post is being quoted. If he had selected the entire quote bubble instead, it would've quoted you, quoting him.

Try it with this post if you want. Selecting the quote bubble with your text will show something like this in the post preview area: 

Quote

The One Who Connects said:

Quote

Spoolofwhool said: How did you...

 

 

[Jondesu]

26 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

@Jondesu: If you quote something in a quote bubble, it attributes it to the person whose post is being quoted. If he had selected the entire quote bubble instead, it would've quoted you, quoting him.

Try it with this post if you want. Selecting the quote bubble with your text will show something like this in the post preview area: 

 

That makes sense, I know I could have figured it out, but I completely missed it at the time.

[Spoolofwhool]

35 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

Quote

The One Who Connects said:

Quote

Spoolofwhool said: How did you...

 

 

Don't be so serious. Lighten up and chew on some cremlings for a change.

[Toaster Retribution]

The quoting system and the magic system are both very complex things... 

So, here is what I dont get : do every person have a Resonance unique to them. Just as an example to make my question clearer: 

Amaram wakes up one morning as a Lightweaver. Would he have the same memory perk as Shallan, or would it be something different for him?