Aesudan Kholin, Theories and Speculations

[The One Who Connects he/him]

19 minutes ago, Solant said:

I don't know. As soon as Navani is said to have left to return to the Shattered Plains, having decided Aesudan a capable ruler without her council, everything we have heard about Aesudan goes beyond simple negligence. I can't pin point exactly why but something screams outside influence to me. Maybe I just have a hard time believing someone used to ruling could screw up that badly this quickly by accident.

You'd be surprised. Bit of logic is that the smartest survive because they are too smart to walk into a trap, while the dumbest survive because their lack of logic makes them unpredictable enough that you can't make a trap for them.

Now I don't think Aesudan is anywhere near that level of stupid, but if she had an advisor who did know what they were doing... Unless Navani thoroughly grilled Aesudan on everything regarding kingship(queenship?) and related topics before going, then certain inadequacies may have been overlooked. We all have lapses in logic from time to time, and as a certain crew leader in Mistborn shows us, it's better to have multiple experts to work with than to become an expert in everything yourself.

---

Regarding outside influences, who is more dangerous? The person who tells her what she should do, or the person who tells her that what she's done is a good idea?

Edited July 31, 2017 by The One Who Connects

[Solant he/him]

I agree it's predictable, and we certainly have enough organizations of unknown or questionable intent on the board right now. I mostly just meant that I don't believe she is working on her own. The question becomes who would stand to gain the most by causing civil unrest in the kingdom's capital

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

7 minutes ago, Solant said:

The question becomes who would stand to gain the most by causing civil unrest in the kingdom's capital

That doesnt have to be the goal of whoever is controlling Aesudan. Pai might have been an unforseen event. It is possible that they just wanted to use Aesudan to control Kholinar/spy on Elhokar/affect Elhokar/whatever. The goal does not have to be chaos.

[Steeldancer he/him]

Yeah i was joking about odium. 

She's actually Hoids ex 

[specialNEDstark]

On 4/5/2017 at 0:03 PM, Gavin-son-son-Odegard said:

Ooh this is interesting. And it actually makes a lot of sense now that I think about it, her being influenced can potentially explain at least some of her behavior. Though it still doesn't fully explain Jasnah's actions since she wouldn't have any way of knowing about Odium's influence on Aesudan. But I still like this theory a lot.

 

Ok I get this, she's deliberate and highly protective of her family. I have no got that she would go as far as necessary to protect her family and Jasnah doesn't seem the type to worrytoo much over the ethical implication of things, instead relying on critical thinking and logic. And it doesn't surprise at all me that she's capable of having people assassinated if need be. BUT for her to have Aesudan assassinated, she would need to have a damnation good reason. Even if she didn't like the woman - which I'm sure she didn't - Aesudan is still her sister in-law and more importantly wife to the heir to the future king of Alethkar, killing her would be treason. And even though I'm certain both Jasnah and Liss now how to cover their tracks perfectly, it's still a huge risk on Jasnah's part, which brings me back to the main question:  

what kinda threat did she perceive Aesudan to pose against her family to warrant even considering such extreme actions?

In my opinion, this has to be about more than Jasnah's worry and contempt over the woman's incompetence, narcissism, selfishness and the it's potential negative impact on the family's political image, power and rule over the country. Don't get me wrong, this is definitely a serious and legitimate concern but one that warrants assassination? I don't think so.  

Also what made Jasnah change her mind and have Liss just watch Aesudan for the time being? Perhaps, she needed more information, or some sort of confirmation of whatever information she already had on Elhokar's wife. I think it's possible that Jasnah's initial dislike of Aesudan because of the woman's above-mentioned traits, had led her to look more into Aesudan and her background and whatever information she dug up had to be troubling enough for her to decide on assassination as a means of dealing with it.

Hmmm...questions...questions and so few hints let alone answers. I'm pretty sure we'll learn more about this in Oathbringer what with Jasnah back on Roshar and almost certaintly reuniting with her family and Shallan as well as Kaladin going to Kholinar right after Hearthstone, which means he probably meets and interacts Aesudan herself and maybe even Liss. Lots of information/revelations can come out of these.

November can't come soon enough    

In all likelihood Jasnah called off the hit because the center of the Kingdom is no longer located in Kholin lands. Navani would never have let her off the leash if there was anything that would pose a threat to their families sovereignty that could be accomplished so far from the true Kingdom. It's not like the journey would take months if the need to return quickly was needed. With spies literally everywhere, and at every rung of the social ladder, nothing clandestine could happen without the information reaching the King at warp speed. Maybe Jasnah used this time to give her a chance to prove herself with no risk if she bombed as Queen. Knowing Jasnah I think the real answet why she called off the hit was she knew the excess the Queen would flaunt would likely remove her head from her royal shoulders, and any plan involving the Queens family staging a coup, if that's even possible not knowing her lineage, could never succeed bc she'd be so hated by the average citizen even the most Kholin hating subjects would never stand beside her. It's alot to be thought out ahead of time, but thats Jasnah's speciality. Perfect understanding of the situation way in advance meant Jasnah risked nothing by waiting rather than killing the Queen herself. 

[Duke of Lizards she/her]

On 4/5/2017 at 0:36 AM, skaa said:

  Quote

 

DEANA

Elkonar’s queen, is she being influenced by Odium? Because for her to be that stupid and for Navani to go off away and say “Eh, the queen got it” seems weird.

BRANDON SANDERSON

You are, um, thinking along proper lines.

(Source.)

 

I haven't even made it through this entire thread, but this WoB was presented on the first page.  

Has anyone ever looked at the answer to this question and thought, maybe the "thinking along the proper lines" answer might mean that Navani is the one being influenced by Odium?  Just trying to look at it from a different angle.  Brandon can be cryptic.  Pun intended.  

[Vissy]

If you were influenced by Odium, I think you'd show things like uncharacteristically flaring temper and so on. 

[Duke of Lizards she/her]

52 minutes ago, Vissy said:

If you were influenced by Odium, I think you'd show things like uncharacteristically flaring temper and so on. 

I don't think you're wrong in some cases (Shallan's father comes to mind), but I also think that Odium's influence doesn't always manifest in that way.  This is just how I imagine it.  I'm under the impression that Odium can push people in certain directions, sort of like

Mistborn Spoilers:

Spoiler

Ruin did in Mistborn.  He influenced people, but they didn't all go on a rampage to destroy.

  

[Vissy]

That's true, though...

Spoiler

Ruin could modify writing unless it was written on metal and so on. Odium obviously doesn't have the same kind of power in the Stormlight Archives, so one is left with the question of what avenues are open to him. With the assumption that there are in-world ways for him to influence people that we still haven't been explained about, presumably, a major part of his influence is through the Unmade and through Voidspren. The Unmade are on a different scale, though. They've certainly influenced the Alethi (the Thrill) but it's a very subtle way of influence, and unreliable. Odium seems limited to things like Rioting and Soothing, in terms of the Thrill at least, and in terms of scale it's immensely powerful certainly, but individually it's something you can erase if you just pay attention to it.