Jump to content

how to make others happy?


Flynn

Recommended Posts

Well, I guess you have to find the deep meaning of happiness first. To make others truly happy, you should be totally selfless. Sometimes you can just be yourself, because you'll sometimes have the attitude that the person likes. Happiness can only be found when your spirit is peaceful. That's what I've found anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Flynn said:

I want to be good at making other people happy. I don't know how to make other people happy. 

I was wondering if you could help me?

This is coming from a pessimist-turned-realist (I'm really only optimistic when I'm on a date with an optimist :lol:). Making people happy is difficult to do, especially if you aren't feeling happy yourself. The trick that I've found is to make them feel like they're worth something. The root of most unhappiness, be it unhappiness with oneself, unhappiness with others, unhappiness with life in general, is a lack of a feeling of personal belonging. Some people see it as what it is, some project it onto others, some don't have a clue why they're unhappy, but it comes from a lack of feeling like you belong. Too many things in this world focus on tearing people down: sports, especially professional sports, are based on who is better than the other person; academics often turns into competition for scholarships; advancement at work is based on who does the job best. And that leaves people feeling down, like they're never enough. Your job, in trying to make them happy, is to break that cycle. Your job is to show them that they are good at something. Anything. Everyone has something that they're good at. Look at a person, and find out what that thing is. Then, help them with it. As they find that they're good at something, they will begin to feel like they belong somewhere, and that feeling of belonging is what will make them happy, and it will make you happier as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unfortunately, there's not a "one size fits all" solution to make everyone happy. Different people often find joy in different things, but here are a few general tips for having positive relationships (not just romantic ones) from my own experience:

1) Perform random acts of kindness and service: holding a door for someone, helping your family/roommates wash the dishes, giving directions to someone looking lost, and so on. Helping others can make their day brighter, and it can also make your day brighter because helping feels good.

2) Give sincere compliments. See someone wearing a T-shirt from one of your fandoms? Tell them their shirt is cool. Have a friend with a skill or talent you admire? Let them know that you admire it, maybe ask them to teach you a bit about it if you're interested in learning.

3) If someone comes to you looking for a shoulder to cry on or somewhere to vent about their problems, it doesn't necessarily mean they want you to offer advice or try to solve their problems. Sometimes just listening and nodding and showing sympathy is all the emotional support they want.

4) If you and a friend or boyfriend/girlfriend have different interests or hobbies, spend time together on each of your and your friend's interests in turns. Show them that even if their favorite activity isn't also your favorite, it matters to you because it matters to them. (If they're a good friend, they'll do the same in return.)

5) If someone's talking to you, give them your attention; don't divide it between the person and, for example, your phone. Most people hate being ignored, and they'll appreciate it if you show that you find them interesting by not acting distracted.

I hope you find my comments helpful. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Flynn an admirable goal :wub:

1. Speak from the heart and let it show that you really care for whoever it is you want to make happy.

2. As @Sunbird said, random acts of kindness. They can really brighten up someone's day

3. Ask people how they are/ how their day was. It can really help for someone to know that at least someone cared to ask.

4. Again as sunbird said, give people your entire attention. They don't want to feel like they are distracting you/being a burden/annoying you

5. Smile. Laugh. Show affection. It's the little things that count. 

6. Be happy yourself. even if you're feeling miserable make that effort to appear happy, just because you're not in the mood doesn't mean you make everyone else miserable      (I find that it's quite obvious when someone is pretending to be happy, and that's one of the best feeling when someone notices that you're not feeling alright)

Also: your Australian? (I just saw ur sig, and I saw brisbane :D) That's awesome! We need more aus sharders here XD

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have an alternative opinion. Maybe not 100% accurate, but I believe is important to take it under consideration.

You can't make someone happy. You can offer help with resolving someones issues and encourage that person to fight for their happiness, but in the end, if there is no outside source of grief and unfortune, we're as happy as we let ourselves to be. 

You won't be happy if you don't believe you deserve happiness. I think that's a problem with many people, they don't think they deserve to be happy. 

Another thing is, before you start working on making others happy, make sure that you're content with yourself and how happy you are. It's really soul crushing when you do your best to help someone and then you have to face your problems alone. Achieving personal happiness will also allow you to help others better. 

Back to my main point. Even giving someone 1 million dollars won't do much if that person doesn't believe they deserve happiness. I've read a study about happiness, and in that research they claimed (supported by couple interviews iirc) that winning a large amount of money doesn't affect persons happiness in long term. After couple of weeks winners rate their happiness just like they did before the win. 

So, you can increase someone's happiness by helping them with a direct cause of problems/grief/etc., but if there is no apparent reason for being unhappy, your can only help them help themselves. Guide them to happiness, not carry them. And first of all, take care of yourself first (if you need to).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Depends on the person, but I usually be nice to the person but don't ask why they're upset or anything. Sometimes, I'll give them a hug, tissues, or jokes.

2 hours ago, Mestiv said:

Another thing is, before you start working on making others happy, make sure that you're content with yourself and how happy you are. It's really soul crushing when you do your best to help someone and then you have to face your problems alone. Achieving personal happiness will also allow you to help others better. 

...I know that feel...but if you help your friends they will help you back. No matter how I'm feeling, if a friend feels bad I'll comfort them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No matter where you go there you are. What I mean by this is that people think by changing their circumstances they will be happy, but in reality they are the same person and things will basically be the same. Happiness is something one must find whithen themselves. Personally my relationship with God gives me happiness. If anyone is interested send me a private message.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems like everyone else has the answering part covered, but out of curiosity, may I ask why you want to be good at this? It's natural to want to lift your friends and loved ones up, but I know in the past when I've asked myself similar questions, I haven't been in a very good place myself, and making other people's lives a little brighter also helped me better myself. 

There's no pressure to answer, I'm just curious. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm going to echo @Mestiv here - you can't make anyone happy. 

Its not your job, and it's not possible. 

However, you can facilitate other people's happiness. You can make happiness possible, or more likely. For this, there's no one size fits all solution. Everyone is different. Generally, giving people a sense of belonging and that they are loved and worthy helps, a lot. 

 

One thing I want to mention though is this: if you try to be selfless you will either fail or be miserable. In both cases, you won't make people happy. Selflessness is about self-denial, but what a conscious attempt at selflessness it leads to is the kind 'miserable martyr' who's impossible to live with - I think you know what I'm talking about? The kind of person who's always doing something for others miserably and never feels they get the thanks they deserve. 

You see, selflessness is not a Virtue of itself, it is merely the negative of the Vice selfishness. 

Instwsd of selflessness, it is better to cultivate in yourself the positive Virtue of Charity. Charity, in the traditional sense (and not the modern sense, which is closer to alms) is about free, unconditional love. Charity isn't about self-denial, it's about positive affirmation. I love this person and want what's best for them. Charity doesn't ask what I can give up (as selflessness does), but rather asks what I can give - what positive, proactive things I can do. Charity is about considering others, and considering there welfare as paramount. A truly charitable person will sit down and listen to others. Will sincerely care. Will pay attention. Do the little things - not out of duty or responsibility but out of love. (And when I speak of love, I don't just mean a temporary emotional state like 'being in love' - while wonderful, that does not, cannot and should not last. It's such a fever pitch of feeling, it would burn you out! I mean a long-term, developed commitment to wellbeing. I mean a deep, honest caring for that other person.) 

Disclaimer, this is a traditional Virtue of Christianity, but is not exclusively Christian. When discussing it, I am coming from my background as a Christian, where I believe that my God will help me in developing this virtue, although I am often stubborn in resisting that help, and not terribly good at this particular Virtue. But we get better :) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You will never be loved by everyone, so don't try to be. Just be yourself, and people who would genuinely like you will naturally gravitate towards you, and you'll naturally repel those who you would not have a connection with without being fake. Pursue your interests, pickup a hobby that you always wanted to try. Simply be your best self, and the people who matter will love you for it. I myself have very few friends, but they are very close to me, and are more valuable for it. You should always strive to make yourself happy first. As selfish as this may seem, keep in mind that a happier you will result in an individual more capable, and willing to help others(obviously, you can take this to the extreme and become a selfish bastard, but I'm not referring to that degree of self-love).

On the other hand, if you're going into politics, read the demographics of the population, find the thing that binds them together as a community, and become that thing. This will likely mean that you have to change yourself, or to put on a mask. If you are willing to do this, you can become loved by the majority, but never the whole. Also, make sure that once you pick a side of any given argument, be sure to stick to it, else your supporters will spot you for the fake you are. These same tactics can be used to become popular within small groups of people, but tend to result in very shallow, weak, and often volatile relationships, so I don't recommend them for such use.

3 hours ago, Straw said:

My only advice is to realize that it's incredibly easy to do nice things. Holding the door or saying hi barely takes any time or energy but can really improve someone's day.

You have obviously never held the door open for an extreme feminist...:lol:

2 minutes ago, Orlion On a Cob said:

Happiness is a negative quality. It is the lessening of suffering that permeates mortal existence.

At least, according to Schopenhauer. I'm not sure if happiness can be equated with temporary relief from the drudgery that is life ;) 

Negative emotions can be seen as beneficial as the drive us to make right what is wrong with our world, therefore imply that Happiness is a non-progressive emotion however one should not disregard the value of Happiness based on this logic as it is the indicator that we have achieved momentary perfection within our own lives, and while it may be fleeting, it proves that it is obtainable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/31/2017 at 0:26 PM, Flynn said:

I want to be good at making other people happy. I don't know how to make other people happy. 

I was wondering if you could help me?

Hey I hope this isn't too personal a question but what brought this on? You can't possibly mean you've never made other people happy before. I've bet you've made tons of people happy already, but something about the way you say this makes me think that it's not so much that you can't make other people happy but that you prioritize theirs over yours.

I'm sorry if this is an unwelcome psycho-analysis. We don't know each other and I'm over-assuming stuff already so please if I offend you I don't mean it.

But all I want to say is that if you're the one who's unhappy stop trying to make others happy at your expense. No amount of advice will change this - if the things you're doing or not doing aren't making people happy, then stop. I don't mean never do it again - I mean, just stop for a moment and think. Because in the end you can't make other people happy - especially if the people you are trying to make happy really care about you - if you're not happy about where you are or what you are doing.

They'll see it as hollow. They'll end up thinking that you don't have to go through so much just for this.

And if that isn't the case - if they're content letting you work yourself to the bone just to make themselves happy, then I really have to ask if that's worth it.

Again I am sorry if this post is a little bit different. I've been there - it isn't pretty.

Edited by Mr. Staccato
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Mr. Staccato said:

Hey I hope this isn't too personal a question but what brought this on? You can't possibly mean you've never made other people happy before. I've bet you've made tons of people happy already, but something about the way you say this makes me think that it's not so much that you can't make other people happy but that you prioritize theirs over yours.

I'm sorry if this is an unwelcome psycho-analysis. We don't know each other and I'm over-assuming stuff already so please if I offend you I don't mean it.

But all I want to say is that if you're the one who's unhappy stop trying to make others happy at your expense. No amount of advice will change this - if the things you're doing or not doing aren't making people happy, then stop. I don't mean never do it again - I mean, just stop for a moment and think. Because in the end you can't make other people happy - especially if the people you are trying to make happy really care about you - if you're not happy about where you are or what you are doing.

They'll see it as hollow. They'll end up thinking that you don't have to go through so much just for this.

And if that isn't the case - if they're content letting you work yourself to the bone just to make themselves happy, then I really have to ask if that's worth it.

Again I am sorry if this post is a little bit different. I've been there - it isn't pretty.

You described that side perfectly.

Respect.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, I'm gonna do a super reply. This turned out really long. I tried bolding some things to make this more skimmable. I made a short summary at the end

I've read all the posts that were in this thread as of 7:00am (Brisbane time) on the 2nd of April. 

Firstly, massive thank you to those who asked after my well-being. I'm okay. You are awesome. 

Also, thank you so much for giving such thoughtful advice. Your responses have made me happy. Please let me know if I have misinterpreted your words. This is important to me. 

Alright, I’ve tried to condense all of your advice into four main points: 

  1. From many of you I was advised to be myself, honest, and sincere
    • I interpret being myself as striving to be the best version of myself. If that’s what you mean by be myself, then I will do that. 
  2. From many of you I was advised to show someone that they are deserving, belonging, worthy, and loved.
    • listening
    • giving full attention
    • complimenting them
    • showing them they have real value (e.g. due to their skills)
    • sympathising with them
    • spending time with them on their interests sometimes even if I’m not interested in it
    • showing them they deserve happiness
  3. From many of you I was advised to do random acts of kindness, the little things, and to be nice and caring
    • Open the door for others
    • Say hello
    • Smile
    • Ask others how their day has been
    • Comfort others when they’re upset
  4. From many of you I was advised to ensure that I be happy myself as well and/or first
    • That is, not giving up my happiness for others’, and avoiding burnout.

I was advised by @Captains Domon to find the deep meaning of happiness. I've taken a stab at it. 

  • Note: This ended up being longer than I thought it would be… 
    • TL;DR: 
      1. Happiness is not constant pleasure
      2. Love yourself
      3. Love others
      4. Believe you (and others) can do good and important things
      5. Try to do good and important things
  • Alrighty then. I'm going to try science.
  • The four main chemicals that we seem to link to happiness are dopamine, endorphins, oxytocin, and serotonin
  1. Dopamine comes from plenty of sleep, regular exercise, and achieving goals. It can also come from eating foods with high amounts of glucose (sugar) (this is relevant to a point I make below), according to some site/s on the internet
    • It is linked to feeling bliss, pleasure, euphoria, motivation
  2. Endorphins come from exercising, laughter, dark chocolate, and spicy food. 
    • They are linked to feeling energised and in a better mood, and counterbalancing stress and anxiety
  3. Oxytocin comes from feeling more intimate with someone, from hugs, handshakes, and gift-giving. 
    • It is linked to feelings of love, intimacy, trust, and connection
  4. Serotonin seems harder to link to general activities. Serotonin levels dictate your general mood. Serotonin levels can be raised by random acts of kindness, or by remembering past achievements, victories or other positive memories. 
    • It is linked to feelings of satisfaction, accomplishment, and importance
    • Its absence is linked to feelings of loneliness, bleakness, and general unhappiness.
  • I think that many people believe that perfect happiness is a constant feeling of dopamine-linked feelings (that is, pleasure) and so try to find a way to feel pleasure constantly (dopamine-linked feelings), for example by consuming glucose high foods, a readily available method of increasing dopamine levels (Though there are other readily available sources. This is an example). I've read that getting too much dopamine can cause our body to decrease the number of receptors we have for them. That is, if we have lots of glucose high food every day, the number of dopamine receptors we have will decrease. This will cause it to always be more difficult to be happier from dopamine. Based on this, in order to feel significant amounts of pleasure from dopamine, we need to make sure we maintain a high number of receptors for dopamine. This can be done by moderating dopamine sources such as high glucose foods, and so avoid having extremely high dopamine levels. 
  • Therefore, I think a more realistic view of happiness means only seeking out high dopamine inducing activities (e.g. eating a large quantity of high glucose food) on rare occasions, to maintain a high number of dopamine receptors. This means that little bursts of dopamine from achieving small goals every day will feel significant. 
  • I think to have a happy life, it is necessary to also seek happiness from the three other happiness chemicals: endorphins, oxytocin, and serotonin by:
    • Setting goals (and celebrating them), sleeping well, and moderating usage of high-dopamine-inducing-agents for Dopamine
    • Exercising and laughing often for Endorphins
    • Forming close relationships for oxytocin
    • Frequently reflecting on positive memories for Serotonin. 
  • There are some other things that most people can do to get better levels of these happiness chemicals. These are:
    • Figuring out who you want to be, and striving to be like that. (For serotonin and dopamine)
    • Finding goals that you believe in, and striving for them. (For dopamine) 
    • Forgiving yourself when you fail, and trying again. (For serotonin)
    • Believing that everyone (including yourself) is worthy of happiness. (For serotonin)
    • Forgiving others when they do something you think is wrong or incorrect. (serotonin)
    • Being optimistic (note: believing that we can cause good things to happen, not believing that good things absolutely will happen) (serotonin)
    • Believing that no person is your enemy (serotonin)
    • Respecting other people’s views (serotonin)
  • I think the advice you gave me can be linked to these chemicals too. 
    • No. 1 can be linked to increasing oxytocin levels (allows genuine trust and connection)
    • No. 2 can be linked to serotonin and possibly oxytocin (making a person feel important, and making them feel loved) 
    • No. 3 can be linked to serotonin and oxytocin as well (making a person feel important, decreasing their stress, and making them feel loved)
    • No. 4 isn’t directly linked to making others feel happy, but it would be much more difficult more me to manage making other people happy if I was unhappy.
  • Ok. That took a while. It wasn't very deep either. 

One conflict in advice was between being selfless or not. It seems like the solution is to do what I can without dealing damage to my own life or mental health. 

I was also advised by @Captains Domon that for someone to be happy their spirit has to be peaceful. This sounds intriguing, though I’m not certain of what a peaceful spirit means. If it means reducing stress, it sounds good to me. Feel free to let me know how I got this wrong. 

Some of you asked why I’m asking for this advice. I want to open by saying that I am okay. I feel fairly happy in my life. The reason I want to learn to make others happy isn’t linked to a specific event or anything. It's because I figure that if I can learn to make others happy, and then make others happy, then I am doing good work (Maybe that means ultimately my goal is self-serving because it would make me happier to make others happy. Maybe it’s like a symbiotic relationship). 

@Zeldan said “You have obviously never held a door open for an extreme feminist.” I think this raises an important point: that people need to be respected in order to be happy. This ties in to people needing a sense of belonging to be happy. It would be hard to feel belonging if you didn’t feel respected, I think. 

Many of you mentioned that there is no one-size-fits-all method of making people happy (or something along those lines). I sort of agree, but ultimately I think it’s possible to figure out all the different ‘sizes’ for making people happy. 

One more thing. @Mr. Staccato, your psycho-analysis is super-duper-mega welcome. Rather than offended, I’m flattered. And as @Darkness Ascendant said, you described that side perfectly. Respect. 

In summary, some things I should do to make other people happy are: 

  1. Be myself, honest, and sincere. 
  2. Show others that they are deserving, belonging, worthy, and loved. 
  3. Do random acts of kindness, the little things, and to be nice/caring 
  4. Ensure that I am happy myself as well and/or first. 

Thank you @Captains Domon, @Elenion, @Sunbird, @Darkness Ascendant, @Mestiv, @A Budgie, @Straw, @Ammanas, @Tristan, @Erunion, @Orlion On a Cob, @Zeldan, and @Mr. Staccato

Notes: 

  • I would LOVE to get more advice from you. Your responses are wonderful, and they may be useful to others reading as well. 
  • I would love more advice on how to show people that they are deserving, belonging worthy, and loved
  • I would love more advice on how to comfort others when they are upset
  • I would love advice on how to make jokes

Wow! If you read all the way down to here, you are a champion. Have a cookie (It hasn’t been spiked, as far as I know :ph34r:)

Edited by Flynn
Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, Flynn said:

I would love advice on how to make jokes

Well, if jokes don't come to you easily, then I suggest you don't go down that path, lest it seem forced/cringey/likeyou'remakingfunofthem

Keep an open mind, draw connections from one thing to another, make references, lightly tease.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Flynn said:

I would love more advice on how to comfort others when they are upset

Listen to them. 

Don't just sit there; show them that you're listening by nodding, offering small comments, and asking questions. But really, that's usually what people need, someone to listen to them without judging or offering unsolicited advice. (If they do ask for advice, that's another story.) When they're hurting, they want validation ("Tell me that I'm not making a big deal over nothing, tell me that this pain I feel matters") and sympathy ("Tell me that you understand how I feel"). You can offer the first by reacting to their story, expressing outrage, horror, sorrow, or what have you. You can offer the second by commenting ("That must have been awful") or telling a (brief) story about how you went through something similar, or just by giving them a hug. 

One of the most important things you can give someone who is upset, though, is a standing offer to listen when they need someone to vent to, or help with a difficult situation. If someone you're comforting has a family member in the hospital, offer to bring them a casserole or some soup or some takeout one night. If they're going through a breakup, offer to get them a warm drink or some chocolate or to take them out someplace fun as a distraction. Be aware, though, that not all offers will sound appealing when they're given—and that is okay. Someone who was just dumped that day probably won't want to spend the night on the town. Tailor your offer to how they're feeling; for instance, in the breakup example, they might not want to go out for drinks, but they probably will want you to stop by their house with their favorite movie and some ice cream. 

In other words, the best comfort you can offer someone who is upset is the knowledge that they can count on you to try and help them feel better. Knowing that you're not alone in a difficult time is usually the best comfort anyone can ask for.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Flynn said:

This sounds intriguing, though I’m not certain of what a peaceful spirit means. If it means reducing stress, it sounds good to me.

In a sense, this is what I meant. When you have a peaceful spirit, you also have the strive to work harder and get things done before the deadline. This will make you and others happy, and the only way to describe the feeling is, well, peace. @Flynn thank you very much for this topic and posts. If you don't mind, I would like to share this with other people. As for jokes, it's as easy as throwing an Awakened cookie in your uncle's face. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/2/2017 at 7:44 AM, Darkness Ascendant said:

It's great to see you actually take our advice and try and apply it @Flynn :D :wub: 

On 4/2/2017 at 7:54 AM, Sunbird said:

@Flynn Thank you for such a thoughtful post. I can tell you really want to make the world a better place, and I learned something new about brain chemistry! =)

 
 

:wub:

On 4/2/2017 at 8:07 AM, Darkness Ascendant said:

Well, if jokes don't come to you easily, then I suggest you don't go down that path, lest it seem forced/cringey/likeyou'remakingfunofthem

Keep an open mind, draw connections from one thing to another, make references, lightly tease.

 
 
 

I'll keep that in mind. I do find some types of humour tricky. Thanks for the tips!

On 4/2/2017 at 8:09 AM, TwiLyghtSansSparkles said:

Listen to them. 

Don't just sit there; show them that you're listening by nodding, offering small comments, and asking questions. But really, that's usually what people need, someone to listen to them without judging or offering unsolicited advice. (If they do ask for advice, that's another story.) When they're hurting, they want validation ("Tell me that I'm not making a big deal over nothing, tell me that this pain I feel matters") and sympathy ("Tell me that you understand how I feel"). You can offer the first by reacting to their story, expressing outrage, horror, sorrow, or what have you. You can offer the second by commenting ("That must have been awful") or telling a (brief) story about how you went through something similar, or just by giving them a hug. 

One of the most important things you can give someone who is upset, though, is a standing offer to listen when they need someone to vent to, or help with a difficult situation. If someone you're comforting has a family member in the hospital, offer to bring them a casserole or some soup or some takeout one night. If they're going through a breakup, offer to get them a warm drink or some chocolate or to take them out someplace fun as a distraction. Be aware, though, that not all offers will sound appealing when they're given—and that is okay. Someone who was just dumped that day probably won't want to spend the night on the town. Tailor your offer to how they're feeling; for instance, in the breakup example, they might not want to go out for drinks, but they probably will want you to stop by their house with their favorite movie and some ice cream. 

In other words, the best comfort you can offer someone who is upset is the knowledge that they can count on you to try and help them feel better. Knowing that you're not alone in a difficult time is usually the best comfort anyone can ask for.

 
 
 

Thank you so much for the in-depth response, Twi. I can tell you've really thought about this. 

On 4/2/2017 at 9:47 AM, Captains Domon said:

In a sense, this is what I meant. When you have a peaceful spirit, you also have the strive to work harder and get things done before the deadline. This will make you and others happy, and the only way to describe the feeling is, well, peace. @Flynn thank you very much for this topic and posts. If you don't mind, I would like to share this with other people. As for jokes, it's as easy as throwing an Awakened cookie in your uncle's face. ;)

 
 
 

That makes a lot of sense! Thanks for the extra explanation. 

I don't mind at all if you share this! Go right ahead 

As for throwing awakened cookies, my aim is sometimes unpredictable ;)

 

PS: I'm still super open for more advice! 

Edited by Flynn
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Flynn said:

As for throwing awakened cookies, my aim is sometimes unpredictable ;)

It's not so much the Awakened cookies you need to worry about as the hemalurgic ones. :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Chaos locked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...