Bondsmiths (and Dalinar)

[Raistlin]

If I understood correctly, after a human forms a bond with a spern he/she gain special abilities that the non bonded humans are not capable of.
The actual "superpowers" vary (some people can ride storms/see the future/make illusions etc.) but the point stands. The bond with a spern grants the people the ability to manipulate the world in a way that they couldn't do before (and then they may be sorted to the different KR orders that correlate to these abilities).

That's why I have trouble understanding the bondsmiths.
What are their superpowers? What is it that they actually DO?

Are they, in any way, necessary to bond spern to humans? are they the supervisors of the creation of the bonds? force bonds when ones are not created naturally? severe bonds? change bonds? create bonds with more than one spern?

The only bondsmith I know about is Dalinar and he's doesn't seem to be doing anything he couldn't have done without the bond/ stormlight.
He's supposed to "unite them all" but unless the meaning is to "make all people bond with spern" I don't see what so special about that command. He's a political and a military leader so while it might sound very difficult to achieve, I don't think it's so impossible that he will need to be a KR to do it.

 

[Samaldin he/him]

As far as i understand the Bondsmiths are kind of the leaders of the Knight Radiant as a whole, but beside that are just another order of Knight Radiants and don´t have any influence on the formation (or at all) on the Nahelbond of others. They can use the Surges of Adhesion and Tension so that are their powers. Dalinar realazies he needs to lead the KR and he can´t do that if he isn´t one of them (mostly because you can´t lead someone if they have more authority than you do, nothing magical here).

I gues the name Bondsmith is just an indication that they are the leaders and form alliances under the banner of the KR to fight the Desolations and isn´t meant to be taken literally (I mean Windrunner also don´t literally run on wind, but Weirdfaller doesn´t really sound good^^)

Edited March 12, 2017 by Samaldin

[Calderis he/him]

I think their name has a double meaning for both their role, and their powers. They lead and form alliances, and they create bonds (adhesion) and strengthen (tension). The intangible bonds they forge are political. The physical bonds are their powers. 

We haven't actually seen Tension used, and haven't seen their resonance either, so there may be more to it. 

[+Extesian he/him]

I think Bondsmiths can use their binding powers in all three realms. They can bind matter, they can create bindings of some sort in the cognitive realm and they can forge connections in the spiritual realm. I believe their powers will prove to be extremely strong as we have this

Quote

But as for Ishi’Elin, his was the part most important at their inception; he readily understood the implications of Surges being granted to men, and caused organization to be thrust upon them; as having too great power, he let it be known that he would destroy each and every one, unless they agreed to be bound by precepts and laws.

I think they didn't just agree to the rules of Nahel bonding (where the power is limited by the saying of oaths) but that agreement was used to Spiritually connect them in a truly binding way.

We also have this.

Quote

So Melishi retired to his tent, and resolved to destroy the Voidbringers upon the next day, but that night did present a different stratagem, related to the unique abilities of the Bondsmiths; and being hurried, he could make no specific account of his process; it was related to the very nature of the Herald and their divine duties, an attribute the Bondsmiths alone could address

It's been suggested that this was the bondsmiths altering the nature of parshendi bonds to prevent them from binding spren any longer, creating parshmen. I'm not committed to this theory but it would show even more the bondsmiths ability to make highly significant, almost unbreakable bonds.

The fact there are only ever three bondsmiths also indicates there powers must be incredible, otherwise they'd be too insignificant an order. And the fact that one of the has bonded the fracking stormfather backs that up.

[1stBondsmith he/him]

I have this WOB in my WOR book that might give you a big hint to their role:

"___________, welcome to the Radiant Order of Bondsmiths. Your first assignment will be to keep the peace" (he paused here a long while) "for all." 

[+Extesian he/him]

5 minutes ago, 1stBondsmith said:

I have this WOB in my WOR book that might give you a big hint to their role:

"___________, welcome to the Radiant Order of Bondsmiths. Your first assignment will be to keep the peace" (he paused here a long while) "for all." 

Very interesting! Makes me even more surprised that Gavilar was on that path given that (Oathbringer prologue spoilers)

Spoiler

he was taking a divisive, war-like approach to uniting people, but I guess he may not have ever successfully become one.

Also makes me suspect even more that 'Unite them' was talking about all peoples of Roshar, humans, Listeners and Aimians.

[1stBondsmith he/him]

Most peacekeepers are very good at violence and have to be to be able to protect more than themselves. Peace usually comes at the tip of a big stick. I hate violence, and consider it the failure of every good alternative, but I am fluent in it. That is likely one of the reasons I enjoy such a peaceful life. (That and the sacrifices of other like minded men).

Edited March 14, 2017 by 1stBondsmith
Spelling

[The One Who Connects he/him]

18 hours ago, Extesian said:

Makes me even more surprised that Gavilar was on that path given that (Oathbringer prologue spoilers)

Following the logic of 1stBondsmith, consider that what Taravangian is attempting to do is uniting the world, in yet another method. Not that I am saying he's gonna be a Bondsmith too, but there are many ways to achieve a goal. Some of them aren't exactly "good" ways, but they can still work

For example: I could unite the world by having enough money to bribe world governments into making the needed changes to unite everyone. Bribery isn't exactly super-honorable, but if all the changes I make are positive and make everyone else more honorable...

Edited March 14, 2017 by The One Who Connects

[+Extesian he/him]

3 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

Following the logic of 1stBondsmith, consider that what Taravangian is attempting to do is uniting the world, in yet another method. Not that I am saying he's gonna be a Bondsmith too, but there are many ways to achieve a goal. Some of them aren't exactly "good" ways, but they can still work

For example: I could unite the world by having enough money to bribe world governments into making the needed changes to unite everyone. Bribery isn't exactly super-honorable, but if all the changes I make are positive and make everyone else more honorable...

Nah I totally understand the pragmatist argument with uniting, I made it myself on the Oathbringer Prologue thread. But the wording of this WoB is keep the peace, and that's quite different to unite. Sure it can still be interpreted in a means justifying ends way but that's harder for a peacekeeping mission than a uniting mission is all. Bribery could still fit. But creating war is harder to fit with keeping peace. 

[1stBondsmith he/him]

Neuclar detant was not a war, but kept the peace very well. A big stick (like being able to break Nahel bonds) could easily be considered a way to keep the peace around rogue Radiants. Remember, peace has to come against enemies foreign AND domestic. It would hold them to there oaths.

[Zeldan he/him]

I think that Bondsmiths are meant to act as liaisons between people and spren. I believe it is through their work that more and more spren agree to form Nahel bonds with potential Radiants. It's been mentioned that there are never very many of them at at any given time, and it has been theorized by some that there are never more than three, each one bonding to Cultivation, Honor, or Odium. This never made much sense to me however as a Bondsmith of Odium would for all intents and purposes be trying to destroy the other two, however if this was the case it makes me wonder if there was a faction that served Odium in the past. I think it would be interesting if Cultivation, Honor, and Odium actually competed with each other by trying to convince spren to bond to their chosen Radiants. Would make for an great chapter in history with a lot of infighting, casting a darker light on what has so far been considered a nearly perfect order, that just suddenly fell apart for no apparent reason.

On 3/14/2017 at 5:32 PM, 1stBondsmith said:

Neuclar detant was not a war, but kept the peace very well. A big stick (like being able to break Nahel bonds) could easily be considered a way to keep the peace around rogue Radiants. Remember, peace has to come against enemies foreign AND domestic. It would hold them to there oaths.

I don't really think that a Bondsmith would have the ability to break a Nahel bond considering their power is Adhesion. There are other groups who can such as Dustbringers and Skybreakers who have Division, and I think that the Skybreakers would happen to fit this role perfectly due to their lawful nature.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Zeldan
forgot to type something

[Raistlin]

Thank you all for your replies!
 

I'm still thoroughly confused about the Bondsmiths but at least now I know it's not because I didn't pay attention while reading and missed some vital information..

I remember finishing the book and actually feeling annoyed since Dalinar seemed to skip the entire learning curve I came to expect from the new generation KRs (even with the minor characters like Lift and Renarin I assumed there was some off - screen evolution of their abilities).

Not only that, but he went from 0 to 180 in less than a minute and all the people around him just accepted him being a Bondsmith without any further comments, like they all know what it means and just went with it.

[Calderis he/him]

@Raistlin I understand what you're saying but look at it from another angle. It's easy to accept that someone else can do crazy things when you assume they're all as lost as you are.

[Fulminato he/him]

On 17/3/2017 at 3:59 AM, Zeldan said:

1) I think that Bondsmiths are meant to act as liaisons between people and spren. I believe it is through their work that more and more spren agree to form Nahel bonds with potential Radiants. 

2)It's been mentioned that there are never very many of them at at any given time, and it has been theorized by some that there are never more than three, each one bonding to Cultivation, Honor, or Odium. This never made much sense to me however as a Bondsmith of Odium would for all intents and purposes be trying to destroy the other two, however if this was the case it makes me wonder if there was a faction that served Odium in the past. I think it would be interesting if Cultivation, Honor, and Odium actually competed with each other by trying to convince spren to bond to their chosen Radiants. Would make for an great chapter in history with a lot of infighting, casting a darker light on what has so far been considered a nearly perfect order, that just suddenly fell apart for no apparent reason.

1) false

As to the other orders that were inferior in this visiting of the far realm of spren, the Elsecallers were prodigiously benevolent, allowing others as auxiliary to their visits and interactions; though they did never relinquish their place as prime liaisons with the great ones of the spren; and the Lightweavers and Willshapers both also had an affinity to the same, though neither were true masters of that realm.

Words of Radiance, chapter 53 epigrap

2) i my opinion there is a 4th unknow shard in the roshar solar system, WotK chapter 11 epigrap “Three of sixteen ruled, but now the Broken One reigns.” we know odium came after honor/cultivation settle on roshar and I found unlike odium ruled pacefully whit another shard. plus the sentence don't make realy sense if the 'broken one' is one of three.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Fulminato