Is Nicrosil like Copper or Steel?

[The Technovore he/him]

Something that I've been confused about for a while, but what I want to know is this.

When someone stores Memories in Copper, those memories are gone and the store-er can't access them until they tap them again.

When someone stores speed, they are temporarily speed-challenged until they tap it again, then they have a boosted amount.

So when somebody uses F-Nicrosil, is it like Copper, where it's gone until you tap it again? Or is it like Steel, where you're without it for a while, then you can have a massive amount later.

Logic makes me think that it should work like Copper, since people don't produce Investiture like they do Speed... right? 

[Pagerunner he/him]

An excellent question, and one that I've been considering since BoM was released. I don't think we have official confirmation either way. Right now, I lean towards a copper-like interpretation, both because it was my natural assumption when I first read the story, and because of how I currently understand the relationship between Investiture and a spiritweb that produces magical effects in a user. I don't think that the Investiture stored in the nicrosilmind is a consumable, the same way that a store of weight or speed would be. They need to refill the brass portion of the medallions after use, but maybe they don't need to refill the nicrosil portion.

That being said, there are also good arguments that say it's a time-dependent aspect, that you store 50% of your Allomantic strength for an hour to let someone else be a full-strength Allomancer for half an hour. What we've seen in the canon isn't detailed enough to specify either way, and Brandon has been quick to hand out RAFOs on the exact function of the medallions, so as not to spoil any reveals coming in the final Wax and Wayne book.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Pagerunner

[Mati]

It might depend on how you look, but I think after all they all work same way. You store memories there, but not all the memories you, only those you are thinking about or wanting to store, so you can't acces memories you stored at that moment, just like you aren't able to acces speed you didn't use at that moment untill moment you take it from metalmind. Only difference would be that you don't measure memories by time ( probably you could as i think it's not instant). So i think you would be storing it just like any other metalmind, though it could sound weird like storing five minutes of investiture. I guess storing this could make you unable to store in other types metalminds at same time but don't know that. Hope it made some sense.

[Pagerunner he/him]

20 hours ago, Haradion Drogon said:

I'd have to suggest that its like Steel.
Because we know the Lord Ruler created the Bands of Mourning, and his wouldn't have been able to do so, without permanently loosing those traits.

Leaving aside the question of who created them in the first place, you make a very good point. But, that holds true for either interpretation - to have a whole society survive using heat medallions, you'd need a lot of Brass Ferrings to begin with. Unless the Bands and the medallions both fill their nicrosil portion using Nicrosil Compounding. Then, either interpretation is tenable; you're either creating new instances of abilities by forming specific pieces of Investiture in nicrosilminds (in the Copper interpretation), or you're creating a nearly unlimited supply of Feruchemical man-hours (in the steel interpretation).

[Spoolofwhool]

I'll point that with copper, a tap is permanent as well, and we haven't seen any permanent ability gain by those tapping the medallions, unless the medallions include a system that induce the person to automatically store the ability when they remove it.

[Jondesu he/him]

1 hour ago, Haradion Drogon said:

I'd have to suggest that its like Steel.
Because we know the Lord Ruler created the Bands of Mourning, and his wouldn't have been able to do so, without permanently loosing those traits.

Actually, The Lord Ruler didn't make them. It was Kelsier, though I assume he intentionally told them that's who he was for some reason. The memory from the coin that Hoid gives Wax along with some other descriptions gave it away, though I don't recall if we have a WoB confirming it.

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

Does storing a memory in copper fully "remove" it or only make it weaker? As I think I've seen conflicting comments about it.

[Spoolofwhool]

1 hour ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Does storing a memory in copper fully "remove" it or only make it weaker? As I think I've seen conflicting comments about it.

You can store a full strength memory which removes is permanently from your mind, or you can probably store a weaker one which leaves you with a weaker recollection. We've only seen full strength storing.

 

Overall, I think that nicrosil feruchemy functions like steel, as does all feruchemy except copper because how memories are in people is different then everything else, as far as I can tell. 

[Argent he/him]

8 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

Leaving aside the question of who created them in the first place, you make a very good point. But, that holds true for either interpretation - to have a whole society survive using heat medallions, you'd need a lot of Brass Ferrings to begin with. Unless the Bands and the medallions both fill their nicrosil portion using Nicrosil Compounding. Then, either interpretation is tenable; you're either creating new instances of abilities by forming specific pieces of Investiture in nicrosilminds (in the Copper interpretation), or you're creating a nearly unlimited supply of Feruchemical man-hours (in the steel interpretation).

I've always assumed that the Firemothers and Firefathers Allik mentions are brass Compounders.

[Pagerunner he/him]

8 minutes ago, Argent said:

I've always assumed that the Firemothers and Firefathers Allik mentions are brass Compounders.

No Nicrosil compounders in there?

[Argent he/him]

10 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

No Nicrosil compounders in there?

I don't know, but it's always made sense to me that if the entire nation is going to depend on heat medallions for their daily lives, they would need colossal amounts of it, and Allik kind of credits the Fire{mothers|fathers} for their survival. The names suggest (Feruchemical) heat. 

There would need to be more to it, just a few brass Compounders wouldn't do the trick (they would need to create the medallions, after all). But I think it's a component they have.

[Mardragon]

On 02/03/2017 at 8:27 PM, Mati said:

It might depend on how you look, but I think after all they all work same way. You store memories there, but not all the memories you, only those you are thinking about or wanting to store, so you can't acces memories you stored at that moment, just like you aren't able to acces speed you didn't use at that moment untill moment you take it from metalmind. Only difference would be that you don't measure memories by time ( probably you could as i think it's not instant).

I get the impression there is one fundamental difference between storing memories and other attributes, like speed and strength.

When you store memories, they're no longer in the your head. In the case of other attributes, I get the impression the attribute must return to you, otherwise, how would you benefit when you try to tap the metalmind later? For example: strength.

While you're storing strength, you become weaker during that period. Now if you retained that weakness until you tap the metalmind, wouldn't drawing strength later just return you to your original strength?

But that's not the case. When one taps the strength later, they are stronger than they were before, maybe even to superhuman levels ( depending on about stored and drawn). For this to occur, after the initial weakness while storing, the person's strength must return to normal. Otherwise they'd get no benefit from drawing their strength later. Do I understand  correctly how these things work?

Edited March 9, 2017 by Mardragon

[Haradion Drogon]

I'd have to suggest that its like Steel.
Because we know the Lord Ruler created the Bands of Mourning, and his wouldn't have been able to do so, without permanently loosing those traits.