Frozen

[PeterAhlstrom he/him]

Hans and Anna don't have a strong connection at the beginning. When Anna says "sandwiches" he says "that's what I was going to say" when it's a bald-faced lie. He talks about how he has found his place (absolutely true) and she talks about how she likes his face (also true and very shallow). They have different motivations entirely. The song mentions mental synchronization, but the ones shown to actually have mental synchronization are Anna and Elsa just a few minutes earlier when they talk about chocolate.

 

I don't have a problem with the trolls except I can't see any reason for them to stay as rocks for so many seconds after Kristoff starts talking to them. That appears to be done just for the sake of humor, which is a bit annoying. Also, the head troll was wrong in what he did at the beginning by removing the memories of magic from Anna's mind, but that's not a problem with the movie because it ultimately shows us that he was wrong, when Anna's white hair streak completely disappears at the end.

[Shivertongue he/him]

I loved Frozen - and definitely agree with the initial thoughts about the snowman. Honestly, despite the analyzation after the fact, I still feel he wa sone of the weakest parts of the movie. My other issue was the trolls; I was cringing during their entire song, and honestly felt that we could have done without it.

 

Comparisons to Tangled, I love both movies, but I think I love Tangled just a little bit more. The scene on the boat, where she sees the lanterns and the song is singing in the background moves me to tears every time i see it, and I am not someone moved to tears often. Frozen had some moments that brought me close to it, but nothing that affected me on a deep level like that scene in Tangled.

 

Also, I freaking hate the snowman. My ideal ending would be for him to have melted while everyone else stood around him in a circle and laughed.

[bartbug he/him]

...

I will never get on the bad side of you, Shivertongue. 

[Aether he/him]

...

I will never get on the bad side of you, Shivertongue. 

Do not mess with the Shiv, dude. And I hope for all our sake that he doesn't turn out to be the Inquisitor in the Devil's Den game!

[Kadrok she/her]

I've only seen it once, but I loved it. Given that I read some of this topic before I saw it, I was far less bothered by Olaf than I thought I'd be.

Hans and Anna don't have a strong connection at the beginning. When Anna says "sandwiches" he says "that's what I was going to say" when it's a bald-faced lie. He talks about how he has found his place (absolutely true) and she talks about how she likes his face (also true and very shallow). They have different motivations entirely. The song mentions mental synchronization, but the ones shown to actually have mental synchronization are Anna and Elsa just a few minutes earlier when they talk about chocolate.

 

I don't have a problem with the trolls except I can't see any reason for them to stay as rocks for so many seconds after Kristoff starts talking to them. That appears to be done just for the sake of humor, which is a bit annoying. Also, the head troll was wrong in what he did at the beginning by removing the memories of magic from Anna's mind, but that's not a problem with the movie because it ultimately shows us that he was wrong, when Anna's white hair streak completely disappears at the end.

On Hans and Anna and Anna/Elsa's synchronization: Brilliant! I hadn't thought about that contrast!

 

On the Trolls: During the movie I was mildly irritated by my observation that "this is all the Troll Sage's fault!" It seems like everyone who should know what they're talking about completely screws up when handling magic, and it ruins everything for everyone.

 

Bonus points: I was surprised how forgiving the populace were. I mean, we the audience get to see what is really going on, but the average Joe knows nothing and is just expected to accept the craziness and instability:

 

"We finally get a look at our reclusive ruler who has lorded over us from behind the forbidden zone. I wonder what she and her sister are like."
 

"Ah! She's a witch! And she brought summer to an end! I guess the good policies which made us accept her absent rule were her sister's doing... I guess her departure is for the best."

 

"Nope, her sister has taken off alone to chase the witch who has brought about a presumably perpetual winter, and left a foreigner in charge about whom we know even less..."

"This foreigner actually seem decent. He's clothing us. What a man of the people! Hope the witch and her sister don't come back into power."

 

"Nope, he's run off looking for the princess. Maybe we should think about democracy."

 

"The witch is back in power, and has exiled the foreigner who cared for the people! Her sister has married a commoner from who knows where, how indecorous! And there's some kind of snow abomination running around! At least Summer has returned, but for how long... what a crazy weekend."

 

I, like many others it seems, was hit very hard by "Let it go.". To be clear, I honestly cannot remember the last time I cried, at all, in any movie. But that sequence got me.

 

Couldn’t keep it in, heaven knows I tried

Don’t let them in, don’t let them see
Be the good girl you always have to be
Conceal, don’t feel, don’t let them know
Well, now they know

Let it go, let it go

I spent I don't know how many years practicing hiding my emotions, but that cut right through. (Partially for that very reason I expect).

I got goosebumps and teared up too, which is my measure of a good song, not during my viewing in the cinema, but afterwards when I was watching that song again. Of course then the line "My soul is spiraling in frozen fractals all around" distracted me from the feels and made me wonder how she knew about fractals... I don't really know that much about them, but I thought that was a relatively recent development... so does that knowledge come with the magic, or was the kingdom of Arendelle ahead of its time... Definitely want the soundtrack.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Kadrok

[Claincy he/him]

I got goosebumps and teared up too, which is my measure of a good song, not during my viewing in the cinema, but afterwards when I was watching that song again. Of course then the line "My soul is spiraling in frozen fractals all around" distracted me from the feels and made me wonder how she knew about fractals... I don't really know that much about them, but I thought that was a relatively recent development... so does that knowledge come with the magic, or was the kingdom of Arendelle ahead of its time... Definitely want the soundtrack.

I didn't really know what fractals specifically were (had to look it up) so that never bothered me

I've seen it twice in cinema's now (and cried both times at that point), just hearing the opening few notes of let it go is enough to cause a strong emotional reaction in me

[PeterAhlstrom he/him]

It's partially the troll elder's fault—I can't remember if I said it here, but Anna's white hair completely disappearing at the end indicates to me that her memories should never have been wiped. But it's mostly their dad's fault for indoctrinating self-repression, which isn't what the troll said.

[Kadrok she/her]

It's partially the troll elder's fault—I can't remember if I said it here, but Anna's white hair completely disappearing at the end indicates to me that her memories should never have been wiped. But it's mostly their dad's fault for indoctrinating self-repression, which isn't what the troll said.

Maybe I just despise memory erasure as a solution, and am therefore more inclined to blame the troll elder...

 

EDIT: Clarification... when I said I despised memory erasure as a solution, I was meaning within the world of the narrative, not on the level of the narrative. In other words, I'm not saying I think it was poorly written, I'm saying I find memory erasure horribly unethical.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Kadrok

[Claincy he/him]

I was browsing through frozen analysis when I came across this analysis of "Let it Go" which is well worth reading.

 

(Yes, I am still spending time looking at this stuff, thinking about Frozen and learning all the songs and I doubt I will be stopping any time soon.)

 

Edit: The analysis of Elsa's expressions during the song by the same person is also worth a look.

Edited February 19, 2014 by lord Claincy Ffnord

[Delightful]

I was browsing through frozen analysis when I came across this analysis of "Let it Go" which is well worth reading.

 

(Yes, I am still spending time looking at this stuff, thinking about Frozen and learning all the songs and I doubt I will be stopping any time soon.)

 

Edit: The analysis of Elsa's expressions during the song by the same person is also worth a look.

Wow, what a great analysis!

 

One thing I really liked about Frozen was the way 'The First Time in Forever" (including the reprise) used the musical harmonies to contrast Anna and Elsa - Anna the optimistic, free one ready to explore the world, Elsa trapped inside, scared, and unable to control her own powers. I thought the filmmakers did a beautiful job with that.

[Arondell]

I was watching various versions of "Let it Go" on YouTube and came across this interesting one.  Apparently the poster got the idea of putting the songs lyrics through several different machine language translations before translating back into English and singing the result.

 

It actually came out better then I would have thought.  She had a fairly good singing voice as well.

 

http://tinyurl.com/kfxeqyw

Edited February 28, 2014 by Arondell

[Claincy he/him]

Here I go again

Ok, so I have memorized the majority of songs in frozen now. When I was working on memorizing "Love is an open door" it really got me thinking about the song, what it means, what it does and how it does it. Initially I didn't like the song that much as it just seemed like a silly disney love duet without any particular significance other than hinting at Hans character and demonstrating more of Anna's. Now I think it is an excellent song, very disturbing, but expertly crafted to be exactly what it is intended to be. Then I started contrasting it with "I see the light" from Tangled. So here is an analysis of sorts of the two and their similarities and differences.

First off, let's talk about the similarities.

The lyrics of both songs actually talk about remarkably similar things.

Both people in both songs speak about their previous lives as being rather bad or unfulfilling.

-Anna

All my life has been a series of doors in my face

and

-Hans

I've been searching my whole life to find my own place

then later

-Anna

Say goodbye

-Hans

Say goodbye

-Both

To the pain of the past

Compare this with in "I see the light"

-Rapunzel

All those days watching from the windows

All those years outside looking in

All that time never even knowing

Just how blind I've been

-Eugene

All those days chasing down a daydream

All those years living in a blur

All that time never truly seeing

Things, the way they were

"I see the light" talks about it more, but then again, "love is an open door" had some dialogue along a similar vein just before the song started.

Both songs then talk about the two of them being together changing everything.

-Anna

And then suddenly I bump into you

then

-Anna:

But with you

-Hans

But with you

And the most obvious (but not only) example from "I see the light"

-Both

All at once everything is different

Now that I see you

Then there is the concept of being "Where I'm meant to be."

-Hans

I found my place

(I am fully aware of the differences between what Anna and Hans are singing, but I will talk about that later.)

-Rapunzel

Standing here it's all so clear

I'm where I'm meant to be

-Eugene

If she's here it's crystal clear

I'm where I'm meant to go

You could also take some of the lyrics from both to be regarding appearance,

-Anna

I see your face

Now that I see you

However this one I will note right here. Anna's "see your face" is focusing purely on appearance and shows the shallowness of her actual feelings for Hans. The line "Now that I see you" is referring to far more than appearances..

A large chunk of each songs lyrics are dedicated to these notions, so on the surface the lyrics seem to be driving to a similar point, yet the intent and meaning behind the songs is completely different.

"I see the light" is about Rapunzel and Eugene coming to realize their love for eachother and that they want to be with eachother. A touching, beautiful, disney love song.

"Love is an open door" is about Anna's naive, childish infatuation with Hans and his desire for the kingdom and attempts to manipulate her into marrying him.

So how, when the lyrics deal with such similar topics, are the songs meanings so utterly different?

Here's what I have noticed.

Love

It is interesting to note that "I see the light" never once mentions the word love, yet the love that is growing between Rapunzel and Eugene is obvious from their expressions, actions, the delivery of the lyrics and the focus on being with eachother. "Love is an open door" mentions love a lot, like it was some special keyword to make it work. Where in truth there is very little to do with love at all in the song. Anna certainly isn't in love, as much as she believes herself to be, she is fixated on Hans because of his appearance ("I see your face") and charming attitude and believes herself to be in love despite having little concept at that point as to what love actually is. But beyond that, part of her fixation on Hans is her longing for freedom and Hans presents an opportunity for that. This isn't a calculated move to use him to secure that freedom the way Hans is using her, but it does, partly subconsciously, factor into how she views him.

So instead of love we have naive foolishness, but on Hans side things are much worse. Hans views the entire relationship as his opportunity to get a throne, he doesn't love Anna, he would prefer it if she thought well of him because he enjoys being viewed as a good guy but all that is secondary to getting the throne. This leads into my next observation:

Togetherness

Rapunzel and Eugene, while having extremely different backgrounds are both singing about the same thing in "I see the light". The realization of their feelings for eachother and how they want to be together. (Put simply). Anna and Hans on the other hand, as noted above, are singing about completely different things and experiencing completely different emotions.

The actual line "Love is an open door" is brilliantly crafted example of this and does a great job of summarizing the song as a whole as to Anna it means love is someone accepting you and not shutting you out, which, while true and a reflection of Elsa and her own imperfect view of what love is, is far from being all love is. But to Hans the line means something completely different, an "open door" is an opportunity, so when he sings that seemingly cute, love line he is actually singing about her "love" is simply an opportunity or a tool he can use to gain what he wants. This has already headed into my next point:

As Peter noted earlier in the thread in the opening parts of the song Anna sings about Hans, in particular his appearance:

-Anna

And then suddenly I bump into you

...

But with you

...

I see your face

While Hans is clearly thinking of the kingdom and his desire to have it.

I've been searching my whole life to find my own place

...

But with you

...

I found my place

Even when they say the same line "But with you" they mean different things to them. To Anna, Hans means freedom as well as what she thinks is "love", but to Hans, even that seemingly innocent line has a double-meaning that highlights how he views Anna as a means to an end. To translate it to what he is effectively saying, "Using you I can get my kingdom". (Man, this guy, grrrrr.)

The massive difference in what the two are singing about greatly sets the song apart from "I see the light", further changing the meaning of the song.

Reason for the relationship

I have already talked about this to some degree in the other points so I will be brief but it does deserve noting.

The reason behind Rapunzel and Eugene's relationship is there mutual affection and how much they are coming to care for eachother. The reasoning behind Anna and Hans relationship is almost entirely selfish. Hans, obviously, sees her as a means to an end, and wants the relationship to secure the kingdom for himself. Anna could easily be seen as a victim here, which she is, but her motivations, while not intentionally bad, are still very much selfish. She wants the relationship partly for the freedom, partly because she wants to feel loved, but at no point is she really focused on Hans as a person. She focuses on his appearance because she wants to be with someone good-looking, but she doesn't really care about him as a person. I am not trying to paint Anna as a bad person here, she isn't. However I would feel sorry for Hans if he genuinely cared for her and wasn't just trying to use her, because that kind of relationship is not going to last or end well.

Synchronization

In "Love is an open door" there is the line regarding synchronization:

-Both

Our mental synchronization

Can have but one explanation

Yet they clearly do not have much in the way of synchronization. Again, Peter already pointed out the contrast between them and the scene with Elsa and Anna talking at the ball and "Chocolate!". However I would like to further note how obvious it is in the song itself, especially when compared to "I see the light".

In "I see the light" Rapunzel sings the whole first verse and chorus by herself, but not out loud. Then Eugene sings a verse also not out loud and then they both sing the chorus out loud together. At first this bothered me as it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but I put it aside as the kind of thing you have to put up with in musical films like these. Looking at it again now though it cleverly highlights just how similarly they are feeling and thinking and provides a strong contrast to Anna and Hans in "Love is an open door".

The most obvious example of how they aren't thinking along the same lines at all is the sandwiches line:

-Hans

I mean it's crazy

-Anna

What?

-Hans

We finish each other's

-Anna

Sandwiches

-Hans

That's what I was gonna say!

Sure, that Anna and Hans were thinking different things for the end is obvious, but that Anna had to say "What?" is another standout point showing that they don't have any sort of mental synchronization. The lines directly following that continue the theme as while they are singing about how synchronized they are the lyrics and timing continue to demonstrate that they aren't. Anna gets halfway through the next line before Hans realizes where she is going with it and joins in.

-Anna

I've never met someone

-Both

Who thinks so much like me

A further contrast can be seen by how "Love is open door" is full of call and answer segments. They very very frequently sing one line each and the only times they sing the same lines at the same time for more than a single line are in the chorus segments and in the very section where they are talking about their supposed "synchronization". This contrasts greatly with "I see the light" where they sing perfectly together. In "Love is an open door" they sound more like they are doing an average job of one of the word games where you have to continue from the phrase the last person said.

Music

Finally I would like to note the drastic differences in style between the songs. "I see the light" has the orchestral (and guitar) providing a serious, melodious, beautiful backing to the song. Suiting the seriousness and earnest truth of what they are singing and their feelings. "Love is an open door"s backing music on the other hand is far more playful, fitting with the lyrics as they jump around the place and bounce back and forth between Anna and Hans. It has lots of percussion and a jaunty beat which reflects how their feelings for eachother are very much surface level. If you are wondering if that is just the style they chose to use in Frozen go rewatch "Let it go" which has a lonely piano as the backing for the early part of the song and minimal other instruments later. Or as in "Do you want to build a snowman." So clearly the style chosen for "Love is an open door" was intentionally chosen for that specific piece.

So, far from being a fairly standard silly/fun disney love song "Love is an open door" manages to be a unique, brilliantly crafted song that perfectly captures Anna and Hans's relationship and gives us a good insight into their characters. Is it as good as "Let it go"? Well, no. But "Let it go" is in a whole different class and "Love is an open door" clearly has the same level of thought and clever decisions that are present throughout the movie.

Edit: Oh wow. I knew it was getting long, but, geeze. Oh well, I hope someone gets something out of it

Edited March 1, 2014 by lord Claincy Ffnord

[bartbug he/him]

Yeah, that's what I was getting. We had to learn that song for Valentine's day in school, and on the day of the actual performance, I must've sang it two dozen times. I love the song from both a musical and artistic reason for many of the reason's you outlined, and how well it works within the movie. It is my favorite Frozen song.

[Argent he/him]

I just saw the movie yesterday. Liked it, but I'll need more time to go through this thread and comment adequately. I must say though, as a delusional reader of epic fantasy and an escapist, the Let It Go scenes left me itching and tingling hands, ready to swing about and cast some magic of my own. I've always been a sucker for massive and impressive displays of power from characters who have been on the quiet end of things.

 

Also, the dynamics between Elsa and Anna before Elsa's escape were just so. Much. Better. Anna, all excited and full of life, but growing slightly subdued around Elsa; and Elsa, all calm, and stately, and reserved, and quiet, and serious, but growing a little more lively around Anna. It was perfect.

[PeterAhlstrom he/him]

lord Claincy Ffnord, that analysis is excellent.

[Claincy he/him]

Yeah, that's what I was getting. We had to learn that song for Valentine's day in school, and on the day of the actual performance, I must've sang it two dozen times. I love the song from both a musical and artistic reason for many of the reason's you outlined, and how well it works within the movie. It is my favorite Frozen song.

It's a great song. Though, I'm not sure I would have called it a great fit for valentines day when thinking about what it actually means

 

lord Claincy Ffnord, that analysis is excellent.

Thanks. This made me happy

 

 

A couple of other comments on it that I thought of later.

 

-Both

Our mental synchronization

Can have but one explanation

-Hans

You

-Anna

And I

-Hans

Were

-Anna

Just

-Both

Meant to be

This bugged me when I was memorizing the lyrics because I thought I had it wrong and I couldn't think what it could actually be. But it turned out it was like that (I'm focusing on the "You." "And I" to be clear.) It is further emphasis in the song that there is something wrong here and that they are not in any way "meant to be" or perfect for eachother. That this sequence doesn't make sense further puts the lie to their supposed "mental synchronization".

 

And one other comment:

 

 -Anna

Say goodbye

-Hans

Say goodbye

-Both

To the pain of the past

We don't have to feel it any more

Sound kind of similar?

And the fears that once controlled me

Can't get to me at all

It's certainly not exactly the same but has similarities.

Just another of the parallels and ongoing themes in Frozen

[FeatherWriter she/her]

Oh, since this thread is still kinda active, I suppose I can throw a link over here. Lightflame wrote some Mistborn lyrics for "Let It Go" and... because I'm a sucker for Cosmere songs, I decided to do a few edits to them and try to record it. I have no idea what I think I'm doing trying to sing this song, but I did it anyway, whoops. It can be found over here, with lyrics.

[PeterAhlstrom he/him]

I listened the other day. Pretty good, though I kept wanting you to just belt it.

[FeatherWriter she/her]

Unfortunately, dorm rooms do not make for good "just belting" environments. (And I've never been a good loud singer unfortunately. I need some training still.) I suppose I could try it again one of these days...

[Swimmingly he/him]

By the way, I've been looking for the reading you did because everyone was saying it was great, and I haven't been able to find it. Do you think you could link that?

[Claincy he/him]

I suppose dorm rooms wouldn't work to well for belting it out though "Let it go" and variations thereof feel like songs that really need to be, well, let go I just doesn't have the same punch otherwise.

 

All the same it was pretty good. You do keep selling yourself short on these, some people are indeed painful to listen to, but you are far better than that. Singing with more confidence in your singing ability would improve the sound further

[Argent he/him]

Okay, after reading the entire thread I have come to the realization that I am bad at reviewing and analyzing things. For me the movie was just good. I liked it, and that's all. I don't rationalize why. Thanks all for making me feel inferior!

[PeterAhlstrom he/him]

Dorm rooms only don't work if you care what other people think of you.

[Claincy he/him]

Dorm rooms only don't work if you care what other people think of you.

"I don't care, what they're going to say!"

 

Edit: I apologize, but, it had to be said.

Edited March 1, 2014 by lord Claincy Ffnord

[FeatherWriter she/her]

True true. I've never been great at belting things though. Only one way to practice though, right?