Patji's Finger

[Rhi Bran]

Does anyone know if Brandon has said anything about what would happen if a person were to eat the fruit from Patji's Finger? Would the parasites work in the same way as inside Aviar or would people gain different abilities, or none at all? Lemme know if anyone has any related quotes, information, or just their thoughts on the subject. Thanks!

Edited February 10, 2017 by Rhi Bran

[AeonaRin]

I think we don't know that. I've only found two interesting things:

Quote

INTERVIEW: Feb 25th, 2016

Calamity-Austin

QUESTION

You mentioned that the flakes of metal are catalysts to access the powers of Preservation. What do the birds from Patji use as catalysts?

BRANDON SANDERSON

You don't always have to have the exact same thing for catalysts, for that it’s kind of more of an innate connection, in the same way that the metals have an innate connection. They ARE the catalyst if that makes sense.

and

Quote

INTERVIEW: Dec 6th, 2016

Herald Washington Library Center-AU Tour (Paraphrased)

QUESTION

Sak, Dusk’s non-native Aviar. That kind of ability is very, very similar to Allomantic electrum, and and his other Aviar is very, very similar to Allomantic copper. Is there a...connection between those two, deeper? Or…

BRANDON SANDERSON

I will RAFO that. It is an intentional reference, but I’m not going to say whether it’s a direct connection to Scadrial magic systems or more that fundamental rules of magic can reproduce one another. We have seen multiple instances of Lightweaving, so...It’s one of those two. That at least narrows it down for you

I would theorize that eating this fruit would make you some kind of equivalent of a misting that does not have to use a catalyst? If that worms are able to live in symbiosis with a human that is. Good question! Can I add it to my questions to ask Brandon on a singning? 

[Rhi Bran]

1 hour ago, strumienpola said:

I think we don't know that. I've only found two interesting things:

and

I would theorize that eating this fruit would make you some kind of equivalent of a misting that does not have to use a catalyst? If that worms are able to live in symbiosis with a human that is. Good question! Can I add it to my questions to ask Brandon on a singning? 

That's an interesting theory and it could make someone really powerful if they were able to gain more than just one ability somehow (but even a single ability could provide quite the edge). If people could gain powers from the worms, I wonder if the powers gained would vary by each individual or some other quality/factor. 

You can totally add it your questions to ask Brandon. I just ask that you message me with what he says (since it can be difficult to find specific info because there's so many transcipits from signings). And if somehow I get the chance to ask him first, I'll let you know what he says. This was actually my first post and I'm glad someone else found it interesting

[AeonaRin]

1 minute ago, Rhi Bran said:

You can totally add it your questions to ask Brandon. I just ask that you message me with what he says (since it can be difficult to find specific info because there's so many transcipits from signings). And if somehow I get the chance to ask him first, I'll let you know what he says. This was actually my first post and I'm glad someone else found it interesting

Sure, no problem! Only I have such a long list I don't know how many will I get answered  Brandon is coming to a signing in Warsaw in March, but I don't even know if there will be some kind of Q&A or not. Well, I'll let you know if I get an A for this one. 

[AeonaRin]

I didn't ask this question, because @Oversleep told me that there is already an answer to that, so maybe He can point you to the WoB?  

The answer is: nothing happens if a human eats the fruit. 

Edited March 19, 2017 by strumienpola

[+Extesian]

1 hour ago, strumienpola said:

I didn't ask this question, because @Oversleep told me that there is already an answer to that, so maybe He can point you to the WoB?  

The answer is: nothing happens if a human eats the fruit. 

WoB was from the previous Boskone signing

Quote

Q: (hard to hear) In Sixth of the Dusk, the Aviar, they [ate all those worms]. What happens if someone else eats the worms on Patji? Do they get powers?
A: Has-- It doesn’t work for a human. They’ve tried that. But there might be something more there.

So maybe not nothing. But nothing immediately apparent

[Rhi Bran]

Thanks @strumienpola and @Extesian for the update on my question

[Calderis]

So if the worms were to work on a human, and they did turn the person into a focus for the investiture, I'd have to assume that would mean you wouldn't be able to turn off the magic.. The Aviar seem to have a permanent effect on the person and/or area around them. So if a human were to gain an ability, it wouldn't be like with other magic systems we've seen. 

The other systems all access magic through a focus. You access the metalic arts via metal. Awakening requires a command. If YOU were the focus, you would be the conduit through which the investiture flows. Whatever ability was gained would be constant.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Calderis

[Djarskublar]

See, these parasites really interest me, mostly in idle thoughts on how to hack them into giving abilities they shouldn't, or to creatures they shouldn't. I wonder, specifically, if you could genetically engineer them to survive in humans and grant them abilities, among other things.

In the past I have also posted thoughts on whether a kandra could replicate the features necessary to host the parasites and get something from it, though I haven't asked Brandon about it yet, since it was after the Arcanum Tour that I thought of it.

[Rhi Bran]

9 minutes ago, Calderis said:

So if the worms were to work on a human, and they did turn the person into a focus for the investiture, I'd have to assume that would mean you wouldn't be able to turn off the magic.. The Aviar seem to have a permanent effect on the person and/or area around them. So if a human were to gain an ability, it wouldn't be like with other magic systems we've seen. 

The other systems all access magic through a focus. You access the metal icon arts via metal. Awakening requires a command. If YOU were the focus, you would be the conduit through which the investiture flows. Whatever ability was gained would be constant.

I am not sure the ability would be constant. When Dusk arrives at Patji in the beginning of the book, he thinks to himself "Beginning your visions early, my friend" referring to Sak. Dusk does not see corpses until he lands on the island, and sometimes when he's in the process of landing as "the Aviar usually waited until they'd fully landed before bestowing her blessing." So it could be that Dusk does not run into sufficiently risky situations while he's away from Patji that warrant the corpses or Sak does not engage the ability until they are close to Patji.  

[+hwiles]

I think our mission is clear, we need to start spiking those dang aviar.

[Naurock]

This is my new favorite thread, because SotD is my favorite short story in Arcanum Unbounded (closely followed by The Emperor's Soul). I also wondered why "the Ones Above" wanted either the Aviar or the worms so badly. But @hwiles may have stumbled across the answer! I just started reading Second Era Mistborn with Wax and Wayne (now on SoS), and since there's only Mistings now, maybe they're there to collect Aviar to build a spiked Mistborn army!

[Darkness]

But do birds even like baked goods? How do we get them to eat the cookies?

[theuntaintedchild]

13 hours ago, Naurock said:

This is my new favorite thread, because SotD is my favorite short story in Arcanum Unbounded (closely followed by The Emperor's Soul). I also wondered why "the Ones Above" wanted either the Aviar or the worms so badly. But @hwiles may have stumbled across the answer! I just started reading Second Era Mistborn with Wax and Wayne (now on SoS), and since there's only Mistings now, maybe they're there to collect Aviar to build a spiked Mistborn army!

I am also a really big fan of SotD. I think it is a spectacularly put together short story.

[Shard Slayer]

On 3/25/2017 at 2:48 AM, Rhi Bran said:

I am not sure the ability would be constant. When Dusk arrives at Patji in the beginning of the book, he thinks to himself "Beginning your visions early, my friend" referring to Sak. Dusk does not see corpses until he lands on the island, and sometimes when he's in the process of landing as "the Aviar usually waited until they'd fully landed before bestowing her blessing." So it could be that Dusk does not run into sufficiently risky situations while he's away from Patji that warrant the corpses or Sak does not engage the ability until they are close to Patji.  

I just interpreted Dusk's comment as saying that he normally doesn't see any corpses until he lands because he isn't in danger of dying while on the waters. I imagine if he went out in his canoe without his other Aviar, Kokerlii, he would see corpses all over the place.

If an Aviar bestowing their power was limited to the island, they wouldn't be in demand on the mainlands.

Although I suppose it is possible Sak is different, but I don't see any reason why that would be the case.

Also, it was never indicated that the Aviar could withdraw their power because they didn't like their owners, the common practice of clipping the birds wings hints at this. The fear appears to be that the bird will leave, rather than it will "decide" not to bestow/use its power.

[Farnsworth]

The bird doesn't bestow the gift, remember? It's the worm things that infect the birds. Maybe they are hydrophobic?

[Darkness]

3 hours ago, Figberts said:

The bird doesn't bestow the gift, remember? It's the worm things that infect the birds. Maybe they are hydrophobic?

that's right! We cant just spike the birds, we have to get to the worms! Maybe if we built a mini fragmentation spikenade into the cookies...

[AeonaRin]

Maybe you need to spike the Aviar to steal the ability of symbiosis with the worm. 

[Darkness]

I wonder what would happen if we just spiked the whole planet...

[+Extesian]

3 minutes ago, Darkness said:

I wonder what would happen if we just spiked the whole planet...

It would be fun trying to figure out the bind points

[Darkness]

and which attribute you'd steal

[Calderis]

On 3/24/2017 at 11:48 PM, Rhi Bran said:

I am not sure the ability would be constant. When Dusk arrives at Patji in the beginning of the book, he thinks to himself "Beginning your visions early, my friend" referring to Sak. Dusk does not see corpses until he lands on the island, and sometimes when he's in the process of landing as "the Aviar usually waited until they'd fully landed before bestowing her blessing." So it could be that Dusk does not run into sufficiently risky situations while he's away from Patji that warrant the corpses or Sak does not engage the ability until they are close to Patji.  

When the Machine from the Ones Above is fired up on the other side of the island, it makes every Aviar flip. It makes Sak flip hard enough that his visions are seen by someone other than Sixth. For their abilities to be... augmented or disrupted or whatever storming happened, they would have to be in use. As far as I'm aware, realmatically, you can't force someone to use investiture, but you can alter how it's being used (I'm thinking leechers and nicrosil mistings). So I'd imagine that every bird, sleeping or awake freaked except for those young enough to have not yet visited Patji's Eye. Not because they all happened to be using their abilities, or because they chose to leave them on, but because they are always on. 

Edited March 28, 2017 by Calderis

[Vecna]

22 hours ago, Shard Slayer said:

Also, it was never indicated that the Aviar could withdraw their power because they didn't like their owners, the common practice of clipping the birds wings hints at this. The fear appears to be that the bird will leave, rather than it will "decide" not to bestow/use its power.

I don't have the book to hand to check, but I seem to remember there's a point where Sixth asks Sek to fly over to the woman and show her his gift.  That seems to imply that the gift is in some way transmitted / switchable.

[A Secret Corner]

38 minutes ago, Vecna said:

I don't have the book to hand to check, but I seem to remember there's a point where Sixth asks Sek to fly over to the woman and show her his gift.  That seems to imply that the gift is in some way transmitted / switchable.

Correct. If I remember what he said, he said "Sack, show her" and then he stopped seeing corpses and Vathi gasped due to seeing the corpses. The gift is granted by the bird, and well in turn by the worms. I can't think of any reason why it couldn't be given to different people.

[Shard Slayer]

2 hours ago, Secrets said:

Correct. If I remember what he said, he said "Sack, show her" and then he stopped seeing corpses and Vathi gasped due to seeing the corpses. The gift is granted by the bird, and well in turn by the worms. I can't think of any reason why it couldn't be given to different people.

Here is the whole quote:

Quote

Dusk drew in a deep breath. "Sak, show her."

The bird launched from his shoulder, flapping across the room, landing on Vathi. She turned to the bird, frowning.

Then she gasped, falling to her knees.

It seems pretty clear to me that bestowing the gift requires physical touch with the person.