Detailed description of a Steel Inquisitor for 3D model

[sprocket]

Hey everyone! 

I need your help to figure out some things about Inquisitors. I've come up against a bit of a wall trying to decide how to represent a few key things, namely: What exactly do the spikes look like? And what clothes do inquisitors wear?

To break this down further, I have a few questions about the spikes. As traditionally depicted, the spikes are so thick that when trying to fit them into the eye socket, most of the surrounding flesh would basically have to be destroyed, which seems like it would wreck havoc on the structure of the face. This made me think that maybe the spikes are thinner than we normally think of them. It would certainly make it easier to drive them through the body quickly and keep freedom of movement. That brings me into the next thing: Do the spikes come in varying shapes? If all the spikes are the same length (and we know that the eye spikes span the length of the head and then some as they stick out the back) then spikes in the arms would stick out so far that the bearer might easily impale himself again. Some spikes might also rub against each other inside the body if they are too long (assuming they are placed symmetrically). Lastly, is the type of metal each spike is made out of apparent? Does a pewter spike look different than a bronze spike? Is the Allomantic symbol stamped onto the front? Are these spikes purely utilitarian or are they more like ceremonial objects, carefully crafted? Do the inquisitors polish their spikes? There are a lot of details that don't come up in bare bones descriptions that I feel should be taken into consideration. 

Next is clothing. I've seen depictions of inquisitors wearing concealing robes and revealing clothes. It seems like no one knew about any spikes besides the eye spikes outside of the inquisitors themselves, so canonically they probably covered up. But design wise showing the spikes and the musculature would be much more imposing. Moreover, what style of clothing do they wear? They were fighters but also figures in a religious institution so both elements should come to bear.  

This is the base mesh as it stands right now. I don't know how much of the upper body will be shown so I've basically modeled all of it. Spike placements were taken from Ben McSweeney's (Inkthinker) illustration. 

 

This is what I mean with the spike thickness thing. I've seen illustrations that show the eyelids stretched around it, but that might look strange in 3D. 

And here's a quick moc up of some clothes I made. It looks more jedi ish than I'd like. 

Quick note/edit: I'm not just looking for textual evidence. WoB, or even straight up speculation or just cool ideas would be awesome. Oh also, feedback on the model in general is appreciated too. 

Update: Alright It's been a little while and I haven't had too much time to work on it, but here's something I threw together for fun just to get an idea of what the finished product will be like. The detailed sculpt is underway, and this is a quick test render with some textures and added color thrown in. The eye tattoos are pretty bad, so that tells me I need to figure out a better look for those. 

Edited December 23, 2016 by sprocket
Progress

[sprocket]

So I accidentally put this up without finishing the post, I'm just gonna keep adding to it until it's actually done, sorry about that! 

[Spoolofwhool]

First of all, all of the Inquisitors spikes are either in the head or torso. They have none in the arms. Secondly, I believe the ones in the torso are all around the same length, while the ones in the eye sockets are a bit longer. I know that at least one is in the back, the linchpin spike, and it's located between the shoulder blades. I think the others are in the front, generally distributed between ribs. 

I believe each spike looks identical, other than the material made for the torso ones. The eye spikes are both steel. Spikes don't have a specific size, but I think inquisitors used the same general size.

If you have a copy of Hero of Ages, I would check out the start of it. After the first fight against an inquisitor, the corpse is examined and I believe a somewhat detailed description is made of spike placement.

[A Budgie]

I think your description is accurate so far, although I agree that I don't think there's any spikes in the arms or legs, just the torso and face. As for size of spikes, in most illustrations I've seen they're just thick enough to fit through an eye socket, probably a bit thinner, and the rest are around the same size. I would say they would be mostly utilitarian, just plain metal spikes, because since there's so many of them you wouldn't think they'd bother engraving the allomatic symbols, although they would be cool to see. I'd say that each of the spikes are going to look fairly similar, but it depends on the metal used: if all spikes are shown, you might want to have the copper ones more reddish, iron ones grey, etc. There might be a list of what spikes are what metals somewhere, I dunno, but I've always thought of the eye spikes as iron and steel, and they're usually shown as grey in illustrations.
As for clothing, I'm pretty sure one of the covers of Hero of Ages depicts them wearing black or grey robe-like clothing without shoes, although I think that really any clothing should be fine for your model as long as it looks right. I agree that the clothing will probably need to be covering, since most people only really knew about the eye spikes (although not nessessarily, since most people who got close to a steel inquisitor either died very quickly and was in no state to look for extra spikes, or already knew about the spikes).
I notice you haven't mentioned the tatoos around the eyes, or aren't you going to do those? I'm pretty sure all inquisitors have those, because it's a religious thing, but I'm not sure what the exact design is so if you haven't thought that through yet you'll probably want to search that up.

[sprocket]

2 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

First of all, all of the Inquisitors spikes are either in the head or torso.

http://imgur.com/lII3YDt this was what I was going off of for spike placement. It would make sense not to have any in the arms or legs though, especially in this illustration it looks impractical. 

 

3 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

If you have a copy of Hero of Ages, I would check out the start of it. After the first fight against an inquisitor, the corpse is examined and I believe a somewhat detailed description is made of spike placement.

You're right. On page forty five it goes through every spike. The inquisitor they fight has ten. "Two through the eyes and one through the shoulders: all steel. Six through the ribs: two steel, four bronze" plus an apparently non standard pewter spike through the heart. From the coppermind wiki that last one steals feruchemical physical powers, which makes sense since he was using feruchemical steel. I will be sure to adjust that accordingly. 

[sprocket]

1 hour ago, A Budgie said:

As for clothing, I'm pretty sure one of the covers of Hero of Ages depicts them wearing black or grey robe-like clothing without shoes, although I think that really any clothing should be fine for your model as long as it looks right. I agree that the clothing will probably need to be covering, since most people only really knew about the eye spikes (although not nessessarily, since most people who got close to a steel inquisitor either died very quickly and was in no state to look for extra spikes, or already knew about the spikes).

I completely forgot about that cover, and the text does refer to them wearing dark robes. However I think I'm going to forego traditional robes for two reasons: 1. It's a little boring as a design not bad necessarily but I've seen a lot more imaginative stuff in fan art, and 2. If I do end up animating this for a game engine I want to cut down on cloth simulation.

 

2 hours ago, A Budgie said:

I notice you haven't mentioned the tatoos around the eyes, or aren't you going to do those? I'm pretty sure all inquisitors have those, because it's a religious thing, but I'm not sure what the exact design is so if you haven't thought that through yet you'll probably want to search that up.

Yeah... I forgot to bring up the tattoos. Even though I had definitely been thinking about how to do them. One thing in particular is the red streak that marks obligators who are members of the canton of inquisition. I've seen that depicted as going down across the eyeball, or running down the center of the forehead. Personally I like the latter more, but I don't know if there's evidence that confirms it one way or another. I also know (from the wiki I think) that the type of allomancer the inquisitor was before is indicated by the tattoos. How isn't mentioned but the most straight forward way would probably be the allomantic symbol somewhere. If they were a mistborn that might get crowded but eh, it's doable. 

[Spoolofwhool]

1 hour ago, sprocket said:

You're right. On page forty five it goes through every spike. The inquisitor they fight has ten. "Two through the eyes and one through the shoulders: all steel. Six through the ribs: two steel, four bronze" plus an apparently non standard pewter spike through the heart. From the coppermind wiki that last one steals feruchemical physical powers, which makes sense since he was using feruchemical steel. I will be sure to adjust that accordingly. 

Right. Just don't forget the linchpin spike in the back as well. The end of TFE should describe where that is precisely located when Marsh goes around ripping them out. There's also a description of Marsh later on in HOA where he has a ton of spikes, but I think they were still all added between the rib cage.

[Vissy]

I think the spikes shouldn't protrude so much, just as a design choice. Looks like they'd start wobbling really bad if the Inquisitor tapped into his steelminds and went speeding ahead. Would probably look more elegant if they didn't stick out of the back, unless it's the eye spikes - I think the tips of those spikes are supposed to stick out the back?

Edited December 21, 2016 by Rob Lucci

[BlackYeti]

7 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Right. Just don't forget the linchpin spike in the back as well. The end of TFE should describe where that is precisely located when Marsh goes around ripping them out. There's also a description of Marsh later on in HOA where he has a ton of spikes, but I think they were still all added between the rib cage.

The lynchpin spike is between the shoulder blades. I think therefore that it's included in the ten spikes listed in the Hero of Ages description.

[Spoolofwhool]

1 hour ago, BlackYeti said:

The lynchpin spike is between the shoulder blades. I think therefore that it's included in the ten spikes listed in the Hero of Ages description.

What part of the description indicates that one of the eleven spikes listed (there are eleven listed, not ten), is between the shoulder blades? As far as I can tell, the description lists two through the eyes, one through each shoulder (two), six between the ribs, and one in the sternum. None of them are remotely described as being in the back or between shoulder blades.

[BlackYeti]

1 minute ago, Spoolofwhool said:

What part of the description indicates that one of the eleven spikes listed (there are eleven listed, not ten), is between the shoulder blades? As far as I can tell, the description lists two through the eyes, one through each shoulder (two), six between the ribs, and one in the sternum. None of them are remotely described as being in the back or between shoulder blades.

I was just going by what @sprocket said, the part that you quoted (I haven't reread the section from the book itself).  That clearly states ten, with one between the shoulders.

[Spoolofwhool]

6 minutes ago, BlackYeti said:

I was just going by what @sprocket said, the part that you quoted (I haven't reread the section from the book itself).  That clearly states ten, with one between the shoulders.

Possibly. It's just that "one through the shoulders" seems like a far cry from describing the spike as between the shoulder blades. Sprocket has correctly quoted the book in his post, so you can read it there. Also, Marsh did state at the end of TFE that all eleven spikes hurt, two in the top and eight in the bottom plus one to connect them, so it seems to me that the description is describing the ten regular non-linchpin spikes an inquisitor has plus the extra one in the sternum which they hadn't seen before. So the linchpin is never described.

[Stark]

@sprocket It depends a bit on the timeline.  

 

Mistborn spolier-y things:

Spoiler

During TLR reign, the Inquisitors only had ten, to limit their power and make sure they could not compete with him.  After he was defeated, we started seeing more and more spikes, as Ruin beefed them up.  We also saw them installing plates to prevent the lynchpin from being pulled.

So I think the ten mentioned at the beginning of HoA are the most basic.  But more are possible, and the locations are likely variable and not limited to the torso only.  you would probably need a WoB to confirm.  Safest bet is probably to stick with the ten.

 

As for the size/thickness, if we are using the eye spikes as a basis, they were long enough to stick out the back of the head, potentially allowing them to be nailed to things (See Kelsier's fight in Mistborn) and the head of the spike was thick enough that was bigger than the eye spike (See Vin's fight later on in HoA, when she punches Marsh's spike deeper - it deforms the socket based on every subsequent description of him)

[Yata]

@Stark in TLR's reign the Inquisitors have a variable number of spikes, Marsh for example have 11 Spikes when TLR died.

Notice that is simply because they have not an extreme stack of Spikes and they re-use them or try always to find new "donors". They didn't have only powers Spikes probably and they have not only a single spike for a specifica power (at least the Misting based), lastly they probably didn't have some uselss power gifted as A-Gold...As you may see, the number of Spikes isn't really fixed.

[CalaCrisp88]

I've always pictured Inquisitors with black/dark pants and no shirts. Tattoos on various parts of the torso as well, not just the forehead. I don't remember if they were supposed to be blue, but in my mind they have pale, slightly blue skin.

[The One Who Connects]

On 12/21/2016 at 8:23 AM, Stark said:

So I think the ten mentioned at the beginning of HoA are the most basic.  But more are possible, and the locations are likely variable and not limited to the torso only.  you would probably need a WoB to confirm.  Safest bet is probably to stick with the ten.

One thing to consider about spike placement has to do with Marsh in HoA. From Vin's PoV, he has "upwards of 20" (I think the exact number was 22, don't quote me on that, I'm not sure right now) The point being that Vin sees enough to say almost/more than 20 while he is facing her, so ~20 visible from the front.

For the OP, I've made assumptions on placement, but if you want a Marsh-Inquisitor model, I have the metal types of spikes he had. I agree with Stark though, it's probably better to stick with the base 10 at first.

[sprocket]

So I've been reading everyone's replies and all the feedback has been really appreciated, I'm gonna keep adding images to the main post as I work so stay tuned! I see there's been a lot of talk about spike counts. I think I'm going to go with a balance between canon and aesthetically pleasing. The default ten spikes seem a bit low for me so I'll probably add some. I will at least add one through the heart, and maybe more in the back even though none are mentioned (it looks more like a spine that way). I'm hesitant to add too many to the rib cage for fear of things getting crowded, but I'll withhold judgement until I test that.

Thanks again everybody!   

[Argent]

On 12/23/2016 at 4:03 AM, sprocket said:

I'm gonna keep adding images to the main post as I work so stay tuned!

That latest image looks pretty great! I will ask you, however, to also post replies as you update the main post - otherwise the forum won't flag the edit as new content and most of us won't see the update (at least until someone randomly stumbles upon it and replies).

[Spoolofwhool]

That coloured one looks really nice.

 

[Eilemelie]

On 12/21/2016 at 2:50 PM, Spoolofwhool said:

What part of the description indicates that one of the eleven spikes listed (there are eleven listed, not ten), is between the shoulder blades? As far as I can tell, the description lists two through the eyes, one through each shoulder (two), six between the ribs, and one in the sternum. None of them are remotely described as being in the back or between shoulder blades.

I will have to contest you on it being eleven spikes listed. The eye spikes are listed as two, that would be one through each eye, but there is only listed "one through the shoulders" not one through each - which, for consticity, would have been described as two. "Through the shoulders" is a rather vague term. One that, with the linchpin spike and its placement known, could well be taken to mean the area right between them.

[The One Who Connects]

Quoth the Coppermind:

Quote

The Lord Ruler's steel inquisitors have eleven spikes in all--two through the eye sockets, one in the middle of the spine on the back, and eight--one for each known allomantic power--in the torso.

It does not have a source note citation on it. However, I remember hearing something quite similar from Inkthinker in an old thread about Marsh's spikes. As I am currently on mobile, that is gonna be a hassle to look up and quote to here.

I'll try and find it, and edit this post when I do. If someone who isn't on mobile can find it and link it here, that'd just be convenient.

Edited January 2, 2017 by The One Who Connects
Adjusting text size

[Spoolofwhool]

If someone could pull out a copy of TFE and flip to the back, I'm fairly certain there's a line by Marsh which is something along the lines of "Yes, all eleven hurt," in response to a question regarding whether his spikes hurt.

[Vissy]

30 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

If someone could pull out a copy of TFE and flip to the back, I'm fairly certain there's a line by Marsh which is something along the lines of "Yes, all eleven hurt," in response to a question regarding whether his spikes hurt.

Found it!

Quote

Marsh sighed and stood. He had been awake only a few hours, but he already seemed tired. His head hung slightly, as if the weight of the spikes were pulling it down.

"Does that... hurt, Marsh?" she asked. "The spikes, I mean?"

He paused. "Yes. All eleven of them... throb. The pain reacts to my emotions somehow."

"Eleven?" Vin asked with shock.

Marsh nodded. "Two in the head, eight in the chest, one in the back to seal them together. [...]"

 

Edited January 2, 2017 by Rob Lucci

[Eilemelie]

1 hour ago, Spoolofwhool said:

If someone could pull out a copy of TFE and flip to the back, I'm fairly certain there's a line by Marsh which is something along the lines of "Yes, all eleven hurt," in response to a question regarding whether his spikes hurt.

That Marsh was given eleven initially doesn't mean that all Lord Ruler era Inquisitors were though. And given the placements of the other one's spikes it seems that it was in the chest they differed.

[The One Who Connects]

Well, this is lovely.

The Word of Inkthinker I was remembering gives Marsh 10 spikes when TLR died, and not 11 like I remembered. From this thread, back in 2014.

Spoiler

It's pretty close to a similar piece I did for The Mistborn Adventure Game >> www.inkthinker.net/illustratio… <<. Everything we put into that book was run past Brandon, and while I don't recall his feedback on the Codex page verbatim, it's what we published so I reckon it's either close enough or not that important (I have a vague memory of him telling me that what's most important is lots of blood contact). 

It'll probably do until someone can ask him at a signing or something, but even then I bet a clip he asks Peter. Between all the Cosmere books just up to now, he's got so many details to keep track of that they've started to wiki them.

Marsh's page in the Game says he has, prior to the death of TLR, 10 spikes in total (4 Steel, 4 Bronze, 1 Gold and 1 Atium). At the height of his power, just before Harmony, he had 22 spikes (8 Steel, 2 Pewter, 8 Bronze, 2 Gold, 1 Aluminum and 1 Atium). I'm 99% sure that the four steel go two in the eyes, one at the top of the spine, and one through the heart. As to the bronze, gold and atium, I'd put the singles into his torso along the center line, and the four bronze into his ribs (2 each side). Symmetry is more attractive. 

Spoilered purely for size.

His numbers give him 2 in the eyes and the linchpin spike at the top of the spine, as the book does. His written image only has 7 in the chest though, so therein lies the discrepancy. (As Eilemelie has just noted)

Also, for the OP, here is a section of the above spoiler area for you and spike placement

Quote

If you want to add more, placing them along the sides of the spine makes for a neat silhouette. I don't suggest actually having them stick out of his skin very far, that's just the diagram. In practice, I think you'd nail 'em all the way in. And they don't all have to be as long or wide as rail spikes, that's just the first four steel ones.  

I hope that helps, some!

Along with his tip that "symmetry is preferred."