17th Shard app anytime?

[Sallin Zeras he/him]

I've been wondering, is there going to be an app for the 17th Shard anytime?

[Elenion he/him]

Just now, Talanelat'Elin Stonesinew said:

I've been wondering, is there going to be an app for the 17th Shard anytime?

Not that I know of.

[Voidus]

The mobile version of the site is already pretty awesome, not sure that an app would add much more other than be a drain on Chaos' already stretched resources and time.

[asterion137 he/him]

http://www.gottabemobile.com/2016/01/20/how-create-website-shortcuts-iphone-homescreen/

I just do this and pretend it's an app

[Chaos he/him]

This is... weird. You're the second person to ask me this in the last week.

I'll give a more in depth response soon but what purpose would an app have over the mobile site? What benefits does that have?

[Djarskublar he/him]

Well, it could give notifications. Just to suck even more of my time, it would be nice to know when someone replies to a thread I follow. Then again, I only follow theory threads, and the people that follow the general discussion threads would have their phone virtually ringing from the single dings of replies, so it maybe isn't the best idea. If you could filter it by subforum, like The Cosmere, then it would be super useful.

The site has good notifications, and I like them, but having some notification for my phone other than a potential email that only comes in batches every couple hours would be nice sometimes.

That is the only benefit I can think of. This is literally the first time I have considered this though, so take this with a heavy dose of salt.

[Sallin Zeras he/him]

12 minutes ago, Chaos said:

This is... weird. You're the second person to ask me this in the last week.

I'll give a more in depth response soon but what purpose would an app have over the mobile site? What benefits does that have?

Yeah, It's not absolutely necessary, but it would be nice. If it's just too much work for you then that's Ok.

[Chaos he/him]

1 hour ago, Talanelat'Elin Stonesinew said:

Yeah, It's not absolutely necessary, but it would be nice. If it's just too much work for you then that's Ok.

I don't fully understand this sentiment. Apps should have some features that make them deeper and better integrated than a mobile page is. However, 17S now uses a responsive design, and every feature on the desktop site that you could need is on the mobile version. That means that feature wise the site is set. 

Notifications would be basically the only benefit, and that's marginal at best. After all you can have email notifications in a very customizable fashion, which naturally you'd get on your phone anyway. 

Let me walk you through what I'd need to do for an app, because if I were to do this ever, I would want it done properly. That would mean I'd want an Android app and iOS and each of their UIs would need to be well designed for their platforms. I'd also need to go through the arcane lore of figuring out how the Invision APIs work, which I thankfully have not needed to deal with yet. I'd also need to acquire iOS devices and learn everything about it, as I'm an Android person. Oh, then I'd have to learn how to code apps. Yes, I suppose I could hire someone, but that's very expensive and we already make negative money on this site. Good app developers are pricey. Maybe someone would volunteer to make one.

But I honestly wouldn't take them up on that offer. It's quite simple: it's not just making the app, but constant maintaining of the app. I have a difficult time just keeping the web version of 17S up to date. In a scheme with apps, you'd need to keep up with best practices of Android and iOS apps. Those standards are frequently updated, so that's more dev time and a lot of testing. Even more importantly, such a scheme is totally dependent on Invision Power Suite to operate. If I do site updates, would the apps break? More testing, more time to spend. Also, bugs become much more difficult to deal with as now there are essentially three versions of the site. This sounds terrifyingly awful to deal with. 

So I mean I'm happy to hear a good argument for an app but it has to be really good. The benefits are barely anything, so considering all that colossal work, it seems not worth it at all. I'd much rather spend the limited time I have on 17S/Brandon stuff on writing news articles for the site, working on the Coppermind, and keeping our one version of the site up to date. Oh, and then administration of the site and dealing with problem members. Maybe someday I'd have time to do theorizing too! But I am insanely busy. 

[Sallin Zeras he/him]

9 hours ago, Chaos said:

I don't fully understand this sentiment. Apps should have some features that make them deeper and better integrated than a mobile page is. However, 17S now uses a responsive design, and every feature on the desktop site that you could need is on the mobile version. That means that feature wise the site is set. 

Notifications would be basically the only benefit, and that's marginal at best. After all you can have email notifications in a very customizable fashion, which naturally you'd get on your phone anyway. 

Let me walk you through what I'd need to do for an app, because if I were to do this ever, I would want it done properly. That would mean I'd want an Android app and iOS and each of their UIs would need to be well designed for their platforms. I'd also need to go through the arcane lore of figuring out how the Invision APIs work, which I thankfully have not needed to deal with yet. I'd also need to acquire iOS devices and learn everything about it, as I'm an Android person. Oh, then I'd have to learn how to code apps. Yes, I suppose I could hire someone, but that's very expensive and we already make negative money on this site. Good app developers are pricey. Maybe someone would volunteer to make one.

But I honestly wouldn't take them up on that offer. It's quite simple: it's not just making the app, but constant maintaining of the app. I have a difficult time just keeping the web version of 17S up to date. In a scheme with apps, you'd need to keep up with best practices of Android and iOS apps. Those standards are frequently updated, so that's more dev time and a lot of testing. Even more importantly, such a scheme is totally dependent on Invision Power Suite to operate. If I do site updates, would the apps break? More testing, more time to spend. Also, bugs become much more difficult to deal with as now there are essentially three versions of the site. This sounds terrifyingly awful to deal with. 

So I mean I'm happy to hear a good argument for an app but it has to be really good. The benefits are barely anything, so considering all that colossal work, it seems not worth it at all. I'd much rather spend the limited time I have on 17S/Brandon stuff on writing news articles for the site, working on the Coppermind, and keeping our one version of the site up to date. Oh, and then administration of the site and dealing with problem members. Maybe someday I'd have time to do theorizing too! But I am insanely busy. 

Sorry, didn't imagine it was that hard and expensive to make.

[Ironeyes he/him]

Couldn't we get the same benefit just by modifying the email notification feature to include an option where it sends you an email for each notification on site? That's a lot of spam but if that was the reason for asking for an app, it's nearly the same. 

[Chaos he/him]

28 minutes ago, Ironeyes said:

Couldn't we get the same benefit just by modifying the email notification feature to include an option where it sends you an email for each notification on site? That's a lot of spam but if that was the reason for asking for an app, it's nearly the same. 

Under notification settings you can customize exactly what you want to get as an in-site notification and which you want as an email: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/notifications/options/

As I said, it's very robust  

[Ironeyes he/him]

Useful. 

[Jofwu he/him]

Not to say that a mobile app is necessary, but I have experienced problems with text entry on mobile. Sometimes feels like it was designed with desktop in mind and not mobile.

Calling out usernames (@...) makes all kind of trouble. When I pick the name it sticks it in place as it should, but then I can't seem to type any text afterwards. If I try to put to the left side of the username it seems to get stuck "inside" the username tag and it won't escape. Typing does nothing. I usually have to write out all of my text and then go back and insert the usernames.

Quotes also seem to be a little buggy. In particular I have trouble deleting empty quote boxes. I sometimes also have trouble adding text before or after them. Cursor keeps getting pulled into the box.

Not huge problems, but it can be pretty annoying. I use Firefox on Android, so maybe it just doesn't play nice with that browser.

[Chaos he/him]

I mean the editor is always iffy... We are mostly at the mercy of the software suite here. There will be some software fixes soon so maybe that would help but who knows.

[Elenion he/him]

I use the built-in browser on my tablet, and it's got some issues. Those that I can think of off of the top of my head are that it won't let me add spaces at the end of lines, tagging doesn't work most of the time, if I quote someone than all text I type becomes un-editable, cursor dragging errors out and just sends me to the beginning of the edit box, and if I swap from tying to swiping it sometimes makes two spaces between words. Mobile editing is decent for basic posts like this one, but for anything more complicated it just isn't worth it.

[Chaos he/him]

This thread is not for general editor-related issues.

As I said, I am at the behest of IPS and future software updates might fix things, but I can't do anything about it, really. 

[Eerongal he/him]

FYI to all those wanting notifications, if you use chrome, you can get chrome notifications for 17th shard. That's what i have set up. You can even do chrome notifications on mobile, which will send notifications to your phone. I've not tried it with 17th shard specifically, but any notification that i get on the side pops up as a toast notification on my PC, and I use mobile notifications for other sites, so it should work the same as them.

 

Edit: Also, if it doesnt work on mobile like it does on a PC for any particular reason, you could use push bullet to cause it to send notifications to your devices as well

[Voidus]

I find the email notifications system more than adequate, takes some settings adjustments but you can get them constantly rather than in batches. It was enough for me to keep up with the Reckoners RP during its prime when we had a post ever half a second.

[KidWayne he/him]

On ‎12‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 2:02 AM, Chaos said:

[SNIP]

Oh, then I'd have to learn how to code apps. Yes, I suppose I could hire someone, but that's very expensive and we already make negative money on this site. Good app developers are pricey.

[SNIP]

So I mean I'm happy to hear a good argument for an app but it has to be really good. The benefits are barely anything, so considering all that colossal work, it seems not worth it at all.

[SNIP]

OK, Chaos here's my best shot:

The best argument for an app is integration with Team Sanderson. You'll likely hate this idea, because this site is your baby; however, an app would allow http://brandonsanderson.com and Brandon's publisher to offer in-app purchases that would allow access to http://store.brandonsanderson.com as well as other means to purchase Sanderson's books and merchandise. You could use the app to consolidate and publish Brandon's Reddit and Twitter activity as well. If integrated with his site, the app could notify you of any in-person signings/appearances near you. Notifications could also be used for new releases with one-click purchase options (with a cut going to the app developer). I would have loved that option for the White Sand graphic novel in particular. Brandon might like the idea of being able to release sharder-only content through the app (like a new novella). It might even be a way to make the Mistborn RPG (or similar content) available electronically.

The benefit to you is primarily monetary. Obviously all this would require professional development and maintenance, that means you could turn the negative income from this site into a profit via a one time sale to Sanderson and/or his publisher. The drawback would be that you would likely be in the same position that George Lucas is with Star Wars (i.e. advisory but mostly irrelevant).

[Aeonax]

As a developer reading this, apps take a lot of time and effort (not to mention money) to make.  There's also permission to gain from Sanderson and his people.

I support the idea of an app that integrates with Sanderson's website, maybe hooking into his twitter feed and appearance schedule but don't really see the benefit of the forum integration. It would require the largest development effort because there is a lot of functionality that goes into these forums, especially when the mobile site is so nice (I'm typing on it now!)

 

edit: the whole payment side of things complicated the whole thing a *ton* and probably best left out of this.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Aeonax
Words

[Kaymyth she/her]

On 12/23/2016 at 10:13 AM, KidWayne said:

OK, Chaos here's my best shot:

The best argument for an app is integration with Team Sanderson. You'll likely hate this idea, because this site is your baby; however, an app would allow http://brandonsanderson.com and Brandon's publisher to offer in-app purchases that would allow access to http://store.brandonsanderson.com as well as other means to purchase Sanderson's books and merchandise. You could use the app to consolidate and publish Brandon's Reddit and Twitter activity as well. If integrated with his site, the app could notify you of any in-person signings/appearances near you. Notifications could also be used for new releases with one-click purchase options (with a cut going to the app developer). I would have loved that option for the White Sand graphic novel in particular. Brandon might like the idea of being able to release sharder-only content through the app (like a new novella). It might even be a way to make the Mistborn RPG (or similar content) available electronically.

The benefit to you is primarily monetary. Obviously all this would require professional development and maintenance, that means you could turn the negative income from this site into a profit via a one time sale to Sanderson and/or his publisher. The drawback would be that you would likely be in the same position that George Lucas is with Star Wars (i.e. advisory but mostly irrelevant).

This is a lovely idea - for the Dragonsteel site.  I'm not entirely sure that it's appropriate for the Shard to try to lever in on that.  While our admins have an excellent working relationship with all of Team Sanderson, this really feels to me like the sort of thing that would be overstepping our bounds (though obviously the admins would know more about the details on that side than I do).  Plus there's Craftsy Games, which handles the Mistborn RPG, and they're yet another company that has their own website, and may not like the idea of someone else's app snaking into their site.

Plus I am definitely on Team Let's Keep Chaos's Plate Of Stressful Things To A Minimum.

[KidWayne he/him]

@Kaymyth

I wasn't too terribly serious. I was spit balling on what could be achieved with an app. I'm aware of how unlikely it would be to get everyone to agree to that level of integration. I even like your idea about redirecting much of this to DragonSteel. The attractiveness of 17thShard.com (from a business perspective) is the number of users and the level of engagement.

I don't expect that any of my arguments would be palatable. Hence, I didn't expect that my post would do much to affect the stress levels of Chaos. I just saw a challenge (to offer a good reason to develop an app) in his post and decided to take a crack at it. This website/community is awesome as is. I'd likely hate most of my own proposed changes.