Atomic Theory and The Structure of the Cosmere

[TheShogun he/him]

So this may have been brought up before. If it has, sorry.

 

Does the Cosmere have the same atomic structure as our own universe? 

That is to say, is everything made of leptons, bosons, and quarks, usually formed into protons and neutrons, which form into atoms?

 

Are their atoms the same as our atoms (does an atom with one proton and no neutrons behave the same way Hydrogen-1 does for us)?

 

Is there anti-matter in the Cosmere?

 

If so, this brings up more interesting questions:

 

How many protons does atium have? Does atium refer to a single isotope, or an element in general?

What about Lerasium?

Duralumin? Nicrosil? etc etc

 

What are Shardblades and Shardplate made out of?

 

If a feruchemist were to store some weight in Iron, then shove in 4 extra protons to each atom to make Zinc, what would happen to the stored weight? Could it be tapped as weight? Mental Speed?

 

Would using a less common isotope of a metal work the same, more effectively, or less effectively than the usual isotope? 

 

If not, how do stars work in the Cosmere?

 

How do human bodies work?

 

Is life even Carbon-based?

Edited January 29, 2014 by TheShogun

[Kurkistan he/him]

This may be of use to you.

 

Source:

VIPER

Hah. So in Cosmere, does physics work the same way in the physical realm as it does in our world? Specifically, particle physics; and are atoms made up of protons and neutrons and electrons, and is light photons, etc?

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes.

 

VIPER

So what's at the core of an atom of Atium? Ate-teum? Also how do you pronounce it? At-teum?

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes. And the matter is just normal matter, but it's wrapped in the spiritual. The Spiritual DNA [or something] is what makes it magical.

 

VIPER

(Note: he might've said slightly more about this but I didn't write it down and I don't remember. Sorry for not bringing a tape recorder :(/> )

Edited January 29, 2014 by Kurkistan

[Oudeis he/him]

If a feruchemist were to store some weight in Iron, then shove in 4 extra protons to each atom to make Zinc, what would happen to the stored weight? Could it be tapped as weight? Mental Speed?

 

I believe there's a quote somewhere, something about trying to "cleanse" a metalmind, which said that if the metal of a tinmind were alloyed into pewter, the change in feruchemical "signature" would wipe it clean of stored senses. Presumably, changing the atomic structure would have a similar effect. I could be mistaken, or I could even be remembering the original quote wrong.

[Voidus]

I believe there's a quote somewhere, something about trying to "cleanse" a metalmind, which said that if the metal of a tinmind were alloyed into pewter, the change in feruchemical "signature" would wipe it clean of stored senses. Presumably, changing the atomic structure would have a similar effect. I could be mistaken, or I could even be remembering the original quote wrong.

I remember the same one but I can't find the quote.

I think it's safe to assume that life is carbon based, several earth-foods are referenced.

[Moogle]

Given the way gravity works, I suspect that the Cosmere in no way represents the actual world despite any WoB to the contrary. I'm sure there's similarities down to the atomic level, but I am doubtful. Time bubbles ruin any conception we might have of light being the same as the real world. Entropy is meaningless with Iron Ferrings. You can't just say "well, Investiture adds energy" thanks to a few consequences of quantum mechanics. Sentience being produced by Investiture and not neural connections? The Cosmere is a very different place, and assuming regular physics has tripped me up quite a few times. Best to not think too hard about regular science.

[Kurkistan he/him]

Phantom and I had a brief discussion on the plausibility of the laws of physics being Spiritually based, if anyone cares to take a look.

[TheShogun he/him]

Given the way gravity works, I suspect that the Cosmere in no way represents the actual world despite any WoB to the contrary. I'm sure there's similarities down to the atomic level, but I am doubtful. Time bubbles ruin any conception we might have of light being the same as the real world. Entropy is meaningless with Iron Ferrings. You can't just say "well, Investiture adds energy" thanks to a few consequences of quantum mechanics. Sentience being produced by Investiture and not neural connections? The Cosmere is a very different place, and assuming regular physics has tripped me up quite a few times. Best to not think too hard about regular science.

I don't think that Investiture does add energy -- I think that Investiture is energy, in a form we don't have.

[Moogle]

I don't think that Investiture does add energy -- I think that Investiture is energy, in a form we don't have.

 

Can't be. It's 'recycled' by Shards. If the Cosmere was the real-world, that'd be impossible because it would reduce entropy. It's more likely that Investiture is some sort of substance that constantly produces energy.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Moogle

[Robot Aztec]

thermodynemics arent an explitci rule of physisc they are just OVERALL RULE not specfic like entrophy isnt chargereppelling like in electrons it is OVERALL TREND that works in all real casse but there is no enbtrpy particle or snthing it is just obsevation of how things allways go in physics it is not HARD ENFORCED

[TheShogun he/him]

Can't be. It's 'recycled' by Shards. If the Cosmere was the real-world, that'd be impossible because it would reduce entropy. It's more likely that Investiture is some sort of substance that constantly produces energy.

Oh, right. That.

[Elementalist he/him]

Can't be. It's 'recycled' by Shards. If the Cosmere was the real-world, that'd be impossible because it would reduce entropy. It's more likely that Investiture is some sort of substance that constantly produces energy.

The exact law of thermodynamics is, total entropy always increases. This means that Investiture can be reusable energy if the entropy increases in another way. The same law allows for eternal life. The entropy increases, it just doesn't increase inside a person's body so that body doesn't age.

EDIT: spelling

Edited January 31, 2014 by Power

[Aminar]

There are two extra dimensions to draw energy/cause entropy from/in that clearly follow different rules from the physical world we inhabit.

As for Time Bubbles, obviously the cognitive aspect involved in the magic is over-riding the physical, making it how people intuitively think it will work rather than the way physics has it working. Word of Brandon is that in areas where Magic isn't involved the Cosmere functions exactly like hours. Magic manipulates that somewhat, but not terribly. That isn't a reason to assume the world is fundamentally different from ours physicswise, just metaphysically.

[Argent he/him]

The physical realm seems to behave pretty much the same way, yes. But there is this pesky bit about the other two realms - cognitive and spiritual - which I always imagine kind of overlaying the physical (though that's my stupid brain barely comprehending the idea of four dimensions of a single realm). So while the physical realm, by itself, behaves like our universe, interaction with the other two can change things a bit. Intent, for example, is kind of a big deal in the Cosmere - so newagers* would be more correct in there than here.

 

The thing is, it's probably difficult, if not impossible, to isolate just the physical realm and look at its properties, because all around the Cosmere the three realms are interconnected (as far as we know). The best candidate for such study would be vacuum, where the cognitive realm at least is diminished to (almost?) nothing. But we still don't know anything about the spiritual one, so it's very possible that even the basic laws of physics we all (should) know don't hold there the same way they do in our world. The Cosmere equivalent of the law for conservation of momentum could include a caveat about spiritual energy (magic? Investiture?) violating said law by adding or subtracting physical energy via the spiritual realm.

 

 * The believers of the New Age are a pseudo-religious pseudo-scientific group which holds the belief that, among other things, believing in and wishing for something makes it more likely to happen.

[name_here]

I think the physical works more-or-less like our world, but investiture can add or subtract energy in fairly arbitrary manners. This actually doesn't necessarily violate thermodynamics; properly stated the entropy of the universe does not decrease. As defined in the context, the other realms would be included in the universe, so a decrease in entropy of something in the physical could be matched by an increase in another realm.

 

 

How many protons does atium have? Does atium refer to a single isotope, or an element in general?

What about Lerasium?

Duralumin? Nicrosil? etc etc

 

I think that Atium and Lerasium are both elements, but their heavy investiture lets them defy normal decay rates. Atium, at least, seems to be chemically unique. Duralumin and Nicrosil are both real alloys.

 

 

What are Shardblades and Shardplate made out of?

Probably some fairly ordinary alloy, with most of their properties provided by investiture instead of composition.

 

 

If a feruchemist were to store some weight in Iron, then shove in 4 extra protons to each atom to make Zinc, what would happen to the stored weight? Could it be tapped as weight? Mental Speed?

 

Would using a less common isotope of a metal work the same, more effectively, or less effectively than the usual isotope?

The answer to both of these is that the Metallic Arts are apparently based off chemical properties and crystalline structure. Turning iron to zinc would alter that and probably just break it because the investiture is keyed to the original material. However, it's also possible that storage isn't typed and so if you can change the material of the metalmind instantaneously you could tap it as the new type. Isotope changes should be fine because that only alters atomic mass and nuclear stability.