Shadesmar Map and Cosmere Map Overlay

[Young Bard]

OK, I'm sorry if someone beat me to it, but I'm pretty sure we can work out which Expanses are which by comparing the Shadesmar map to the Cosmere Map.

Here they both are for those who don't have them to hand:

Cosmere Map:

Shadesmar Map:

So. We already know that the Expanse of the Vapors is the Scadrian Cognitive Realm from here. Judging by Mistborn: Secret History, this is a pretty accurate description of what the Cognitive Realm on Scadrial looks like, so it stands to reason that the others also provide hints as to what the other Expanses look like on different worlds. So. Here goes.

Expanse of the Vibrances - Nalthis

Have you ever not been able to work out a puzzle, and once someone tells you, you feel like an idiot for not working it out earlier? Expanse of the Vibrances? When you have a world filled with colour-based magic? Really? *sigh* I think we can all agree this one's pretty much in the bag. My guess is that this world is filled with colour, and the more invested it is, the more 'colourful' it looks, or something like that. I really want to see the Tears of Edgli in the Expanse of the Vibrances now... That could provide some interesting answers...

Expanse of the Broken Sky - Taldain

At first I thought this might refer to the fact that the World didn't follow the regular day/night patterns like a regular pattern, but Skaa had an interesting idea that could provide an alternate explanation, based on Glamdring's initial theory: that the smaller sun of Darkside is really a black hole, and that the Particulate Ring is really an accretion disk. That is... a very scary thought. And, depending on how the accretion disk is seen in the Cognitive Realm, you might have a giant black hole hanging over the sky on Darkside. If that isn't enough to make it a "Broken Sky", I don't know what is...

Expanse of the Densities - Sel?

This is the one I feel least certain about, but Nalthis, Taldain, and Scadrial fit so well... The Cosmere map has the Expanse of the Densities leading off into nowhere, though it could conceivably shift ~45 degrees towards the inhabited planet of Sel, because the Cognitive Realm is abridged where there's no consciousness.

In fact, I was almost ready to write that off as an area we haven't seen, except for the fact that the Expanse of the Densities is 'a planet we've seen before 2011'. And we've now got Scadrial, Nalthis and Roshar covered, leaving only Sel. My only possible explanation for the 'Expanse of the Densities' is that Sel's Cognitive landscape was drastically changed as a result of Dominion and Devotion's Shattering, which is why Sel is 'tricky to get to' in the Cognitive Realm. (Though, I must admit, I thought I read somewhere else that that was due to the uncontrolled power of the Dor after the Shards were Shattered or something, which might disrupt that theory, in which case, I have no idea how the Expanse of the Densities fits in with Sel.)

The other 2 planets indicated - Threnody and First of the Sun - are further away from Roshar, which is probably why they don't have a corresponding Expanse. Apart from Sel, I'm reasonably confident about all of these, and if I'm right, then that means we can begin to narrow down what makes Sel the Expanse of the Densities. Actually, another thought occurs to me as I write this - the Expanse of the Densities could be a clue for something in the future. (The Shadesmar map was relevant as of the period of time of the Stormlight Archives, AFAIK - which is a while after the Elantris trilogy. We have no idea what might have gone on there after Elantris and the Emperor's Soul. In fact, Elantris 2 and 3 contain Cosmere tidbits that Brandon doesn't want us to know until after Stormlight 5, IIRC, so it's actually quite reasonable to think that a Cosmere significant event might happen there.)

So, what do you all think? Are you as confident about this as I am? Any questions? I kind of did this in a rushed half-hour before bed after a long week, so if this is incoherent at all, I apologize, and I'll try to fix up any confusion in the morning.

[soyperson]

Isn't the Shadesmar map just of Roshar's Cognitive Realm, not the Cosmere's overall?

[skaa]

51 minutes ago, bleeder said:

Isn't the Shadesmar map just of Roshar's Cognitive Realm, not the Cosmere's overall?

It mainly depicts the Rosharan Cognitive Realm, yes, but the Expanses that you see in the corners are actually not on Roshar. As was mentioned in the OP, we already know that the Expanse of the Vapors corresponds to Scadrial.

As for "densities", the only thing that comes to mind is varying atmospheric densities. There was a WoB early this year implying that the Dor's power raged around the Cognitive Realm on Sel like a highstorm. I made me think that it's a place with extremely strong and dense winds blowing everything apart.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Ookla the Insipid
Sometimes, swiping on the phone's screen keyboard sucks.

[Pagerunner]

1 hour ago, Ookla the Indefinable said:

Actually, another thought occurs to me as I write this - the Expanse of the Densities could be a clue for something in the future. (The Shadesmar map was relevant as of the period of time of the Stormlight Archives, AFAIK - which is a while after the Elantris trilogy. We have no idea what might have gone on there after Elantris and the Emperor's Soul. In fact, Elantris 2 and 3 contain Cosmere tidbits that Brandon doesn't want us to know until after Stormlight 5, IIRC, so it's actually quite reasonable to think that a Cosmere significant event might happen there.)

Minor fact-check on the Elantris sequels. In an ancient proto-State of the Sanderson, the plan at one point was for Brandon to do the Elantris sequels before Stormlight Five, and do the Modern Mistborn trilogy in Stormlight halftime. The behind-the-scenes cosmere bits are groundwork in the Elantris sequels, and need to be there before Brandon goes to the next Mistborn trilogy. With the surprise expansion of the Wax and Wayne era to fill the gaps between early Stormlight books, Elantris sequels (and the subsequent Mistborn trilogy) all got pushed back. It doesn't affect anything in your theory, since Elantris still precedes Stormlight by a fair bit.

I've been hesitant in general in trying to map the constellations to the Shadesmar map, since there are many orientations that the stars could be viewed from that wouldn't match up to Shadesmar. But, then again, this isn't random - it's well within the realm of possibility that Silverlight's placement was done intentionally by Brandon so that their night sky would be roughly the same as Shadesmar, so we can take the two maps and line them up. It's definitely possible. But, as I said in another thread on the topic, there's a lot we don't know, so I'm reluctant to agree with anything definitive regarding Shadesmar right now.

[user613]

A black hole as the second sun is not scary, just dark.  Gravitationally it behaves the same as a regular star unless you get too close (and by that point you would have been fried if it was a normal star).

[Argent]

Some did, indeed, beat you to this

I can't find the thread  I know it's very recent and that someone had posted an image of the Cosmere map with Shadesmar's on top, resized and rotated, but I can't remember which thread it was in, and I can't seem to find it (easily).

Edited December 2, 2016 by Argent

[Yata]

The only great thing that bother me in your interpretation is about Ashyn and Braize..two planets with cognitive live just near Roshar. I find strange they are not just near of Roshar's CR

[Runyan Firetree]

Spoiler

8 hours ago, Argent said:

Some did, indeed, beat you to this

I am catching up on forum activity, so I'll try to link the thread.

 

Spoiler

@Pagerunner is correct that there could be orientation issues with taking this approach, however the for-sure matches of Scadrial/Vapors & Nalthis/Vibrance do make it seem promising.  If Sel is Densities & Taldain is Broken Sky, then where are Braize, Ashyn, and the 10 gas giants?  If the orientation approach is valid, then I tend to think that Sel is either:

• one of the Densities along with the Rosharian planets [Sel-CR is dangerous, Braize is dangerous, 10 gas giants are hard to study per Khriss...thus the generic name of "densities", people know there are multiple locations out that direction but is too dangerous / difficult to travel to and study closer]
• unlisted expanse between Vibrance & Densities
• not listed and it's relationship is similar to the locations of Maine & Massachusetts, they are separated by 20 miles but don't share a border.  To get to Maine from Mass you need to drive through New Hampshire, so maybe you need to travel through vibrance first before coming to Sel's CR.

Edited December 2, 2016 by runyan_ft
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[Blightsong]

1 hour ago, runyan_ft said:

@Pagerunner is correct that there could be orientation issues with taking this approach, however the for-sure matches of Scadrial/Vapors & Nalthis/Vibrance do make it seem promising.  If Sel is Densities & Taldain is Broken Sky, then where are Braize, Ashyn, and the 10 gas giants?  If the orientation approach is valid, then I tend to think that Sel is either:

• one of the Densities along with the Rosharian planets [Sel-CR is dangerous, Braize is dangerous, 10 gas giants are hard to study per Khriss...thus the generic name of "densities", people know there are multiple locations out that direction but is too dangerous / difficult to travel to and study closer]
• unlisted expanse between Vibrance & Densities
• not listed and it's relationship is similar to the locations of Maine & Massachusetts, they are separated by 20 miles but don't share a border.  To get to Maine from Mass you need to drive through New Hampshire, so maybe you need to travel through vibrance first before coming to Sel's CR.

Sel is confirmed to be one of the expanses.

[Pagerunner]

Here's a very relevant quote for Sel:

Quote

Q: In Emperor's Soul, I asked: "Is the reason why it is hard to get to Shadesmar on Sel because Devotion and Dominion being Splintered?"

A: That is part of it (a little). Then, hidden later in the book: "Has to do with the name of that expanse."

http://theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1102#2

So, it definitely does have an Expanse in the Shadesmar map, and that name provides a hint to why it's dangerous to travel. Process of elimination:

• Broken Sky: In Secret History, we saw Ruin and Preservation up in the sky. Two 'Broken' Shards, up in the 'Sky.' That loose power can fall down (looks like Chicken Little was right) and kill people.
• Vibrance: We learn in AU that the two Shards are polarized, and their conflict powers the Dor. Aons glow, seals glow, there's light coming from the Dor. It's possible the Dor actually glows, filling the Cognitive Realm with light. The power of the Dor, the power of conflict, is pulsing around up there, and you'd better stay away from anything too bright when you worldhop.
• Densities: This is super vague. Would it mean there are things like black holes in the Selish subastral? Those would definitely be dangerous.

So... I managed to not narrow anything down at all. Way to go, me. But, this kind of goes with what I've been saying all along, that it's really had to be definitive. Brandon himself has said that the logic works in really odd ways.

[Khyrindor]

Am I the only one who doesn't see Vibrancy on that map? I'm very confused right now. I see Densities, Truth, Transition, and Broken Sky in the north. The seas in Roshar Proper. Then the Expanses of Imagination and Vapors.

[BlackYeti]

1 minute ago, Khyrindor said:

Am I the only one who doesn't see Vibrancy on that map? I'm very confused right now. I see Densities, Truth, Transition, and Broken Sky in the north. The seas in Roshar Proper. Then the Expanses of Imagination and Vapors.

It's hidden behind the Shadesmar label: we know what it's called due to WoB. Also note that it's the Nexus of Imagination, not Expanse.

[Khyrindor]

Just now, BlackYeti said:

It's hidden behind the Shadesmar label: we know what it's called due to WoB. Also note that it's the Nexus of Imagination, not Expanse.

Thank you! 

Now that we have that cleared up... Maybe the Nexus of Transition or the Nexus of Imagination are Braize and Ashyn, though I don't know why those ones fit at all.

[Pagerunner]

2 minutes ago, Khyrindor said:

Thank you! 

Now that we have that cleared up... Maybe the Nexus of Transition or the Nexus of Imagination are Braize and Ashyn, though I don't know why those ones fit at all.

Considering they correspond to locations on Roshar (as opposed to the Expanses, which are off the edges of the map), I don't think they match other planets. I suspect they're spren cities (but, then again, that's what I used to think the Expanses were, too).

[theuntaintedchild]

I always thought that Because the Dor was packed so densely building up pressure behind the broken magic system, that there was a massive buildup and that's why it was difficult to get through to Sel. It would be like trying to swim through space made out of strawberry jam. In this sense Exspanse of the Densities makes sense to be the Expanse needed to get through to Sel. 

[Djarskublar]

Well, since Silverlight is a CR city, my theory is that the star chart is actually a map of the CR. It is of course heavily artistically interpreted, but it makes sense lore wise. It also explains why it is a rectangle instead of a circle.

[Blightsong]

1 hour ago, theuntaintedchild said:

I always thought that Because the Dor was packed so densely building up pressure behind the broken magic system, that there was a massive buildup and that's why it was difficult to get through to Sel. It would be like trying to swim through space made out of strawberry jam. In this sense Exspanse of the Densities makes sense to be the Expanse needed to get through to Sel. 

Agreed. It also just makes sense based on the others. Broken sky fits with Taldain far better than any other, vibrance fits with Nalthis, and vapors fits with Scadrial. Even if densities is a bit of a stretch based on what we know, it can just be deduced.

[ZenBossanova]

Ok, we know what the expanses represent. 

But are the nexuses ? 

Are they related to perpendicularities? 

[Pagerunner]

3 minutes ago, ZenBossanova said:

Ok, we know what the expanses represent. 

But are the nexuses ? 

Are they related to perpendicularities? 

I doubt it - we know where two Perpendicularities are on Roshar (Purelake, Horneater Peaks), and there are no Nexuses near either of those.

[Yata]

11 minutes ago, ZenBossanova said:

But are the nexuses ?

I think the nexuses are simply the wasted solid lands of the Cognitive Realm, as our analogue...you may use the oceans.

A "nexus" as standard meaning, is a place where somethings converge. In this case the vaste zone between two Shardworlds

[Argent]

@Pagerunner, do we know that the Purelake is one?

Edited December 2, 2016 by Argent

[BlackYeti]

12 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

I doubt it - we know where two Perpendicularities are on Roshar (Purelake, Horneater Peaks), and there are no Nexuses near either of those.

Do you have a source for the Purelake being a Pependicularity? I know it's a commonly held theory but I haven't heard that it had been confirmed.

I've always been skeptical of it to be honest. Perpendicularities typically form in areas of high altitude (i.e. mountain ranges) which the Purelake obviously isn't. Cultivation's  Perpendicularity is in the Horneater Peaks, and as per my theory here, I think that Honour's Perpendicularity is at Urithiru, and I suspect that Odium's Perpendicularity is probably on Braize rather than Roshar.

Edit: You know, I think this is my first time being ninja'd @Argent

Edited December 2, 2016 by BlackYeti

[Yata]

wait, wait,wait...Have we not a Official confirmation on Purelake=perpendicularity ? It was one of the main problems with my model of Roshar, I never wrote it on the forum, because I though that we have already the two Roshar's perpendicularities

Edited December 2, 2016 by Yata

[Argent]

12 minutes ago, BlackYeti said:

Edit: You know, I think this is my first time being ninja'd @Argent

I am good.

[Pagerunner]

11 minutes ago, Argent said:

@Pagerunner, do we know that the Purelake is one?

 

10 minutes ago, BlackYeti said:

Do you have a source for the Purelake being a Pependicularity? I know it's a commonly held theory but I haven't heard that it had been confirmed.

Good point - I guess we haven't gotten official confirmation. I've just seen it thrown around so much, it's so popular, that I assumed it was fact. I can't imagine it wouldn't be, with the common cold there and the 17th Sharders looking for Hoid there. But that might be a problem with my imagination.