Talenel's Honorblade

[Jame Starmade]

I looked and I could find this theory being discussed so here we go.

this assumes that Talnfrom the end of WoK is Talenel. Also that his shardblade is an Honorblade but by the time he gets the the shattered planes it has been switched to a normal shardblade.

most of my info is from the coppermind. 

Basically I think Hoid took Talenel's Honorblade. We know he has acquired a significant amount of Breath and that he took a Lerasium pellet from the Well of Ascension. I'm sure there is other evidence that he is gathering "powers" from different worlds. With an Honorblade he would have both a shardblade and the surges affiliated with Talenel's order. 

Thats the whole reason Hoid is waiting for Taln. All Hoid needs is to have acquired an unknown shardblade and switch them without anyone knowing. Hoid has proved pretty resourceful in the past so I don't see a problem. 

 

[Pagerunner]

It's a good thought, and keeping in line with what we know of Hoid (that he's collecting Investiture). He's got the means, motive, opportunity, all that. Unfortunately, someone already asked Brandon about this one, and he said Hoid didn't take it. He might know who did, though...

[Jame Starmade]

Drat. Hmm the mystery continues. 

[Jame Starmade]

The only other idea I have is that the Shin took it. 

In WoK there is a section where szeth is thinking about his death and how the stone shamans would collect his shardblade when he dies. They must have someway of tracking the Honorblades and know if anyone is bonded to them. They might have seen talns blade show up and assumed it was szeths. Though now that Kal has Szeths they'd be pretty confused.

[+robardin]

But Hoid couldn't just grab Taln's sword and run, Taln could just dismiss and resummon it at any time, unless Taln unbonded it, right? The way Szeth does at the end of WoR (the reworked ending), or the other Heralds appear to have done that in the prologue to WoK (though Nalan appears to have reclaimed an Honorblade).

 

[Jame Starmade]

That's true. I hadn't really thought about that. I had just assumed that taln wasn't bonded with it because it didn't disappear when he dropped it. It still leaves the question of where the other shardblade came from. Unless Taln was bonded to them both and gave up the normal shardblade so people wouldn't kill him for it. Though he does seem very capable of defending himself.

[Eki]

7 minutes ago, robardin said:

But Hoid couldn't just grab Taln's sword and run, Taln could just dismiss and resummon it at any time, unless Taln unbonded it, right? The way Szeth does at the end of WoR (the reworked ending), or the other Heralds appear to have done that in the prologue to WoK (though Nalan appears to have reclaimed an Honorblade).

 

That would assume that Honorblade bonding works the same as for other shardblades, and also that Taln would have the presence of mind to actually think about doing something like that. I can't think of any time where someone with an Honorblade dismisses it while not holding it, but I might be wrong about that.

3 minutes ago, Jame Starmade said:

That's true. I hadn't really thought about that. I had just assumed that taln wasn't bonded with it because it didn't disappear when he dropped it. It still leaves the question of where the other shardblade came from. Unless Taln was bonded to them both and gave up the normal shardblade so people wouldn't kill him for it. Though he does seem very capable of defending himself.

Honorblades work differently from other shardblades: you actually have to will it to disappear, instead of will it to remain. How bonding with Honorblade works is still a bit of a mystery. But he was (most likely) unconscious or at least unresponsive when his Blade was taken, so I doubt he had much say in the matter.

My theory is that Nale swapped the two blades.

In Lift's interlude, Wyndle points out that there is something wrong with the blades Nale and his underling have. Lift also sees Nale being awesome, which probably means that the blade Nale uses at that moment really is an Honorblade (most likely his own). However, Wyndle says that both weapons are wrong - and I don't think that would say that if one of them was a dead sprenblade and the other an Honorblade. He would expect a normal shardblade, after all. So I think it's likely that Nale's underling is using Taln's Honorblade.

The main argument against it I can see would be that taking the Blade could be seen as theft, which Nale probably wouldn't want to do. But there could be a lot of explanations for that.

[Spoolofwhool]

2 hours ago, Eki said:

Honorblades work differently from other shardblades: you actually have to will it to disappear, instead of will it to remain. How bonding with Honorblade works is still a bit of a mystery. But he was (most likely) unconscious or at least unresponsive when his Blade was taken, so I doubt he had much say in the matter.

The way I see, it seems like Honorblades function by physical contact bonding when materialized, and a more regular bond dismissed. So you have to be actually physically holding it in order to gain any abilities from it, unless you've dismissed it. It seems supported by the fact that the moment Szeth dropped his blade, all the stormlight fled from him, like he had lost the ability to surgebind and hold stormlight. A point against it though is that Nale did comment that the bond between Szeth and his blade had been severed, implying that there was more of a bond that what I suggested.

2 hours ago, Eki said:

Lift also sees Nale being awesome, which probably means that the blade Nale uses at that moment really is an Honorblade (most likely his own)

WoB has it that Nale is using his own Honorblade.

2 hours ago, Eki said:

However, Wyndle says that both weapons are wrong - and I don't think that would say that if one of them was a dead sprenblade and the other an Honorblade. He would expect a normal shardblade, after all. So I think it's likely that Nale's underling is using Taln's Honorblade.

Possibly. Edgedancer Things

Spoiler

We see in Edgedancer that Nale's minions are Skybreaker KRs, learning to progress towards achieving shardblades and shardplates. It feels like it would make more sense that the minion is therefore a Skybreaker who has a bonded enough for a shardblade, then someone with an Honorblade.

 

[Sallin Zeras]

Yup, I lost my Honorblade. I think a guy called Hoid stole it from me in the middle of the night, but I really don't know.

[WildSpeculation]

1 hour ago, Talanelat'Elin Stonesinew said:

Yup, I lost my Honorblade. I think a guy called Hoid stole it from me in the middle of the night, but I really don't know.

ok that made me chuckle, upvote.

[Spoolofwhool]

1 hour ago, Talanelat'Elin Stonesinew said:

Yup, I lost my Honorblade. I think a guy called Hoid stole it from me in the middle of the night, but I really don't know.

Sadly, God says you're wrong.

[Sallin Zeras]

4 minutes ago, WildSpeculation said:

ok that made me chuckle, upvote.

Never mind what I said. I think I saw a stick-like figure in my cell like a month ago

[Eki]

1 hour ago, Talanelat'Elin Stonesinew said:

Never mind what I said. I think I saw a stick-like figure in my cell like a month ago

Are you sure it wasn't actually the Stick, then?

[Sallin Zeras]

41 minutes ago, Eki said:

Are you sure it wasn't actually the Stick, then?

Maybe

[Spoolofwhool]

33 minutes ago, Talanelat'Elin Stonesinew said:

Maybe

Did you ask it or try to soulcast it? That would tell you.

[Sallin Zeras]

1 minute ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Did you ask it or try to soulcast it? That would tell you.

Nope, I was kind of sleepy, you know, I was tired of doing stuff. Fighting in Desolations is boring

[emailanimal]

So, our versions are Hoid, who did not do it by WoB, or someone who has not been known to be in the vicinity of Taln's reappearance. Bah. We can play that game to death. It was Axies because he studies spren. No, it was Rysn and her babsk: they are heading to Shinovar again to trade it to the Stone Shamans for some chickens. No, Mraize got there first. But wait a minute, how about this guy from Purelake we saw this one time? Surely, he could've walked and stolen the blade. Nobody (!) expects that(!)

 

[Jame Starmade]

There is only one other theory we haven't looked at. 

The man isn't actually Taln. Everyone assumes that it is but he could just be some random darkeyes that has gone insane. As far as I know it isn't confirmed that he is Taln. 

He never had a Honorblade but somehow got ahold of a shardblade. Possibly found it in his mad wanderings. 

The only problems are the two different shardblades and Hoid being there to welcome him. 

I personally think it is him but if it hasn't been confirmed it is possible.

[Spoolofwhool]

37 minutes ago, emailanimal said:

No, it was Rysn and her babsk: they are heading to Shinovar again to trade it to the Stone Shamans for some chickens.

Too valuable. You have to trade things you hold worthless for chickens which Shin hold to be worthless and I don't think Rysn would find an Honorblade to be worthless.

16 minutes ago, Jame Starmade said:

There is only one other theory we haven't looked at. 

The man isn't actually Taln. Everyone assumes that it is but he could just be some random darkeyes that has gone insane. As far as I know it isn't confirmed that he is Taln. 

He never had a Honorblade but somehow got ahold of a shardblade. Possibly found it in his mad wanderings. 

The only problems are the two different shardblades and Hoid being there to welcome him. 

I personally think it is him but if it hasn't been confirmed it is possible.

Possibly, but the fact that Hoid was there is a pretty good clue that there is something going on with that man.

[emailanimal]

25 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Too valuable. You have to trade things you hold worthless for chickens which Shin hold to be worthless and I don't think Rysn would find an Honorblade to be worthless.

What? This piece of crem? Picked it up from a crazy Makabaki darkeyes in Kholinar. The poor sod didn't know one end of it from another. What kind of a blade does not disappear when dropped? Cannot bond it, cannot wield it into battle... Cannot find a more useless weapon in the entire Vorin Kingdoms if I went looking for it. It would be unworthy of even a single chicken, let me just throw it with the rest of the junk I brought.

[Jame Starmade]

I'm pretty sure the Shin would recognize an Honorblade...

[emailanimal]

28 minutes ago, Jame Starmade said:

I'm pretty sure the Shin would recognize an Honorblade...

All the more reason for them to want it, and you know how they trade for things they want. Take ALL our worthless chickens. I have no idea why you even want them. All they do is eat and poop.

[Yata]

14 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

So you have to be actually physically holding it in order to gain any abilities from it, unless you've dismissed it. It seems supported by the fact that the moment Szeth dropped his blade, all the stormlight fled from him, like he had lost the ability to surgebind and hold stormlight.

It was my idee too, but someone months ago made me notice that Szeth in some of his killings. Dismissed the Blade to start to fight with bare hands using Lashing to performe multiple "one-touch-ko"

[Spoolofwhool]

8 hours ago, Yata said:

It was my idee too, but someone months ago made me notice that Szeth in some of his killings. Dismissed the Blade to start to fight with bare hands using Lashing to performe multiple "one-touch-ko"

I'll reiterate, the bond is physical contact when the honorblade is materialized in the physical realm, but if dismissed it remains bonded to whoever dismissed it, granting them powers.