VoltCruelerz he/him Posted November 29, 2016 Posted November 29, 2016 Now that we've seen Wyndle become a fork and mention other Spren becoming bows (but not the strings or arrows?), do we have any knowledge of what the upper size limit is on a shard-item? I'd previously assumed it was a constant mass which you could mold however you see fit, but in the end, you'd still have the same amount of it. Unless Wyndle became a superbly dense fork--which I feel like would have been mentioned by Lift were it so--I'm seriously wondering what the upper and lower bounds on the size of shard-items are right now. Did Wyndle only partially become a fork perhaps, leaving most of his Investiture elsewhere? 1
Jofwu he/him Posted November 29, 2016 Posted November 29, 2016 59 minutes ago, VoltCruelerz said: Did Wyndle only partially become a fork perhaps, leaving most of his Investiture elsewhere? This was my assumption.
Weltall Posted November 29, 2016 Posted November 29, 2016 We saw Pattern go between knife-sized and typical Shardblade-sized in Words of Radiance without Shallan commenting on a change in weight so this seems to be an established thing the spren can do. Not sure how a sentient concept can 'partially' become a physical thing while the rest of them is floating around in the Cognitive Realm but Syl did say that physics on Roshar is more like 'an agreement between friends' to not break the brains of the puny humans so who knows. xD 3
nervousnerd he/him Posted November 29, 2016 Posted November 29, 2016 Yeah. It seems like the only limit we were given is in relation to the bow and arrow thing. I'm still unsure if that refers to parts that act separately or perhaps moving parts.
VoltCruelerz he/him Posted November 29, 2016 Author Posted November 29, 2016 48 minutes ago, nervousnerd said: Yeah. It seems like the only limit we were given is in relation to the bow and arrow thing. I'm still unsure if that refers to parts that act separately or perhaps moving parts. I'm guessing moving parts. I suspect it has to be a contiguous piece. Though whether it can form itself into a cable or some such, I'm not sure.
ccstat he/him Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 The limit in Edgedancer seemed to be material, rather than moving parts-- Wyndle says there is a connection to metal. After WoR the size limit question was asked. I can't find the quote at the moment, but the answer i remember was "about person sized."
Stark he/him Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 So... You could make a Shard cannon then, right? With the right imagination? No moving parts there, just a big metal tube and explosions. But then, with Wyndle stating a Shardbow string is sold separately... What does a Shardbow fire? Conventional arrows? 1
nervousnerd he/him Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 1 minute ago, Stark said: So... You could make a Shard cannon then, right? With the right imagination? No moving parts there, just a big metal tube and explosions. But then, with Wyndle stating a Shardbow string is sold separately... What does a Shardbow fire? Conventional arrows? Well, both seem to have the same problem. Why would you choose something like a cannon or bow that uses the shard in a way that has no effect on the other person? I am assuming that a shard has to touch a person to have its effect. It would probably make more sense to use a shard arrow or cannon ball instead.
Pattern he/him Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 1st: The shardfork made me laugh out loud! 2nd: Material of shard-stuff: Wyndle states the material has to be metal, so a bowstring made of metal (like metal guitar strings) might work or not. More I want to hint to a statement from Mistborn: Secret History: Spoiler Kelsier realizes that in the Cognitive Realm (allomantic) metals appear like the souls of people (glowing). So there seems to be a Connection (capital like in allomantic Connection) between souls and metals. In analogy it is not so surprising that a condensed form of a spren (self-aware Splinters) are Connected to metals.
Zmann966 he/him Posted December 1, 2016 Posted December 1, 2016 13 hours ago, nervousnerd said: Well, both seem to have the same problem. Why would you choose something like a cannon or bow that uses the shard in a way that has no effect on the other person? I am assuming that a shard has to touch a person to have its effect. It would probably make more sense to use a shard arrow or cannon ball instead. We've seen that you can throw a shardblade (a dead one) at someone, with conscious effort for it not to dismiss. Without the 10-heartbeat limit on living shardblades through the Nahel bond, wouldn't it be better to become a ShardArrow and fire it through a normal bow? That way it has the piercing/killing effect of a shard, AND you can near insta-recall it once it's done it's damage... And fire it again, lol. Far better than a Shardbow. 2
djammmer Posted December 1, 2016 Posted December 1, 2016 On 11/29/2016 at 5:05 AM, jofwu said: On 11/29/2016 at 4:05 AM, VoltCruelerz said: Did Wyndle only partially become a fork perhaps, leaving most of his Investiture elsewhere? This was my assumption. My assumption, was that he became a ginormous fork (i.e. a sword sized fork)... making my metal picture of that scene even more absurd/hilarious. Like a child aqua-man eating pancakes with a trident. 2
Weltall Posted December 1, 2016 Posted December 1, 2016 Someone at last night's signing asked whether it would be possible to create a Shardblade (or other weapon) with multiple parts from a single spren, like two smaller swords. The answer (paraphrased) was 'technically yes but that would require splitting the soul of the spren and it wouldn't like that very much'. The person who asked said he guessed this meant no Shardnunchucks and got a good laugh from the crowd. So yeah, for a Radiant who likes bows, you'd have to pick between making your spren the bow or the arrow. Not sure what benefit you'd get out of making them into a bow (because they already have 'Shardbows' that are made to be used by people with the enhanced strength of Shardplate) aside from not having to hand-carry the bow around everywhere. But then you wouldn't get any of the special cutting properties of a Shardblade. 1
Djarskublar he/him Posted December 1, 2016 Posted December 1, 2016 The best weaponization of live spren I can think of would require a siege engine XD. It would basically be a ballista that shoots the spren. You would have the spren form into sorta a spatula shape. It would look like a capital T with a curved top. The curved part would be bladed. Shoot that sucker into an infantry column... If their formation is dense, you could easily cause around 100 casualties per shot. You could also shoot it at battlements to destroy parapets and anyone hiding behind them... Or heck, just chop up the wall with this a little at a time until it collapses. For bullets, spren bullets would be sweet but difficult to get. They would be even better if you can cast Abrasion on them. 1
ScarletSabre he/him Posted December 2, 2016 Posted December 2, 2016 Wouldn't a giant caltrop-style spiked Spren-cannonball be better? Hurl it from a catapult/trebuchet and have it plow through people. We've seen that the blades of Sprenblades and Shardblades can be over six feet long, so a few two foot long spikes on a ball shouldn't be too much trouble, and pierce straight through everyone on the battlefield without a boulder or Horneater to hide behind like a shield.
Zmann966 he/him Posted December 5, 2016 Posted December 5, 2016 On 12/1/2016 at 2:30 PM, Djarskublar said: The best weaponization of live spren I can think of would require a siege engine XD. It would basically be a ballista that shoots the spren. You would have the spren form into sorta a spatula shape. It would look like a capital T with a curved top. The curved part would be bladed. Shoot that sucker into an infantry column... If their formation is dense, you could easily cause around 100 casualties per shot. You could also shoot it at battlements to destroy parapets and anyone hiding behind them... Or heck, just chop up the wall with this a little at a time until it collapses. For bullets, spren bullets would be sweet but difficult to get. They would be even better if you can cast Abrasion on them. Shardspatula... I like...
Djarskublar he/him Posted December 5, 2016 Posted December 5, 2016 On 12/2/2016 at 5:46 AM, Rawrbert said: Wouldn't a giant caltrop-style spiked Spren-cannonball be better? Hurl it from a catapult/trebuchet and have it plow through people. We've seen that the blades of Sprenblades and Shardblades can be over six feet long, so a few two foot long spikes on a ball shouldn't be too much trouble, and pierce straight through everyone on the battlefield without a boulder or Horneater to hide behind like a shield. Not really, for two reasons. One, a spiked ball wouldn't pass through people as well. The flats of Shardblades are just regular old godmetal XD. Second, if it is thrown at an angle a catapult/trebuchet could achieve, it would go far, but not hit a large number of things. The ballista would be like shooting a magic unstoppable scythe through a block of infantry. Or a wall. Basically it would straight up be better. Windrunners or Skybreakers would be the preferred users of these. They can reduce the gravity of the ballista for transportation and just use general Stormlight strength enhancement to load the things.
thejopen27 he/him Posted December 7, 2016 Posted December 7, 2016 On 11/30/2016 at 10:06 PM, Zmann966 said: We've seen that you can throw a shardblade (a dead one) at someone, with conscious effort for it not to dismiss. Without the 10-heartbeat limit on living shardblades through the Nahel bond, wouldn't it be better to become a ShardArrow and fire it through a normal bow? That way it has the piercing/killing effect of a shard, AND you can near insta-recall it once it's done it's damage... And fire it again, lol. Far better than a Shardbow. Shard boomarang
Spoolofwhool Posted December 7, 2016 Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) For everyone suggesting turning your bonded spren into a ranged weapon, do recall an important fact: Nahel bond requires proximity. In other words, if the bonded spren goes too far from the KR, the KR loses the powers they get from the Nahel Bond. Obviously, it wouldn't always be a problem, but in a combat setting it wouldn't be that wise unless you have a strong set of people defending you, presumably other KRs. Actually, the ranged weapon idea might not work at all since once the spren moves put of range it stops being a Shardblade, as it requires the KR in order to be physical as much as the KR requires the spren to surgebind. Edited December 8, 2016 by Spoolofwhool 2
Steeldancer he/him Posted December 8, 2016 Posted December 8, 2016 You know what? Forget weapons. Go get a shardspoon. Or a shardthimble. Or if you really feel like it, a shardtrombone 1
Weltall Posted December 8, 2016 Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) The moving parts might be a problem but I'll bet a Shardtrombone would produce the most incredible music. And now, Adolin and the Radiants, with Swingin' Shallan on guitar, Lift the Awesome on the trombone and Cool Kaladin on the drums! Edited December 8, 2016 by Weltall 2
Sarevok Posted December 10, 2016 Posted December 10, 2016 On 30-11-2016 at 9:40 PM, Pattern said: Wyndle states the material has to be metal, so a bowstring made of metal (like metal guitar strings) might work or not. That might seem obvious to us, but the medieval technology they have on Roshar probably doesn't allow for making metal string, so the option doesn't occur to them? On the subject of shard-weapon launching siege engines: take into account that those take a while to reload. I think a regular bow a broad-head arrow (and I mean really broad) firing repeatedly into a dense formation might be more effective. The only firing speed limitation are how fast the Radiant can draw and how fast his spren can get back to him (flight time to target + time to get back).
Spoolofwhool Posted December 10, 2016 Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, Sarevok said: On the subject of shard-weapon launching siege engines: take into account that those take a while to reload. I think a regular bow a broad-head arrow (and I mean really broad) firing repeatedly into a dense formation might be more effective. The only firing speed limitation are how fast the Radiant can draw and how fast his spren can get back to him (flight time to target + time to get back). I pointed this out a bit earlier, but long-range shard weapons might not actually work due to the range limitations of the Nahel Bond. A Knight Radiant loses their powers if their spren is not nearby, and since the spren turning into a shardblade is due to Nahel Bond, chances are that the spren will disappear as well if it goes too far away. On 12/8/2016 at 0:31 PM, Weltall said: The moving parts might be a problem but I'll bet a Shardtrombone would produce the most incredible music. And now, Adolin and the Radiants, with Swingin' Shallan on guitar, Lift the Awesome on the trombone and Cool Kaladin on the drums! A spren wouldn't like being multiple parts because it would require splitting itself cognitively. Edited December 10, 2016 by Spoolofwhool
Weltall Posted December 10, 2016 Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) I know, I mentioned that issue earlier as well in the context of weapons with multiple parts. But it doesn't mean the idea of a Shardtrombone isn't inherently awesome. xD Edited December 10, 2016 by Weltall
Pattern he/him Posted December 29, 2016 Posted December 29, 2016 Quote I pointed this out a bit earlier, but long-range shard weapons might not actually work due to the range limitations of the Nahel Bond. A Knight Radiant loses their powers if their spren is not nearby, and since the spren turning into a shardblade is due to Nahel Bond, chances are that the spren will disappear as well if it goes too far away. Where does that information come from? Until now I haven't seen an indication that physical closeness matters. Perhaps Syl's fear to lose herself while going away from Kaladin in WoK might be a hint, but that was before Kaladin even spoke the First Ideal. Shallan can attach illusions on Pattern and let him move around, without losing the Nahel bond (I think of the scene where Shallan hides in a building and Pattern approaches the tree outside).
Yata he/him Posted December 29, 2016 Posted December 29, 2016 42 minutes ago, Pattern said: Where does that information come from? Until now I haven't seen an indication that physical closeness matters. Perhaps Syl's fear to lose herself while going away from Kaladin in WoK might be a hint, but that was before Kaladin even spoke the First Ideal. Shallan can attach illusions on Pattern and let him move around, without losing the Nahel bond (I think of the scene where Shallan hides in a building and Pattern approaches the tree outside). WoB: Quote QUESTION Does the spren have to be present for a Surgebinder to have their abilities? Because with Dalinar, the Stormfather won’t be around all the time... BRANDON SANDERSON Good Question! Fortunately, the Stormfather is a little more omnipresent. Normally you’re gonna have to have your spren close, but the Stormfather absorbed... is basically Honor’s cognitive shadow, which means he’s got a connection to a lot of different things, so he’s not bound by a lot of the rules that others are.
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