Cosmere Maps [AU Spoiliers]

[Oversleep]

On 8.12.2016 at 3:20 AM, Zmann966 said:

The "Flat Shadesmar" vs "Round Planets" was touched upon during the Outside Q&A at the Chicago signing last night, pending a transcription, its in there somewhere:

Can't see it, the box says I don't have permission.

[Flynn]

It seems like the map probably has not been distorted, because otherwise the pictures would be distorted. (Unless pictures were made up after distorting the map?)

The tree constellation might be representative of Autonomy? (Plants do their own thing automatically, unlike animals).

The lamp for Sel is inanimate, which fits with the shards on Sel (Devotion and Dominion) being dead. Also for the lamp, if it's a genie lamp then maybe that links to Devotion and Dominion (genie is devoted to and dominated by its 'master')

I wonder if Ambition is the 'opposite' intent to the Shard that just wants to survive (like Preservation and Ruin, or Devotion and Dominion)

[Zmann966]

10 hours ago, Ookla the Sunrise Watcher said:

Can't see it, the box says I don't have permission.

Yeah, something changed and broke it... weird... http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/57093-2016-12-06-arcanum-unbounded-herald-washington-library-center-chicago-il/?do=findComment&comment=514280 let's try that

 

[Khyrindor]

If you haven't already, look here for a lot more information on the Cognitive Realm, Silverlight, and the constellation map. Beware of AU spoilers.

 

[Stark]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know where on the Cosmere map from AU Reya's Tear is located?  It seems like it should be a relatively significant feature as it is the only other space element mentioned (that I can think of) that isn't a moon or the scar.

[Pagerunner]

8 minutes ago, Stark said:

Out of curiosity, does anyone know where on the Cosmere map from AU Reya's Tear is located?  It seems like it should be a relatively significant feature as it is the only other space element mentioned (that I can think of) that isn't a moon or the scar.

Isn't Reya's Tear just the brightest star in Roshar's night sky? Since Roshar is on the map, they're obviously not Roshar's constellations, but it looks like all the other major Shardworlds could fit the bill. They're all roughly the same distance from Roshar on the map... which seems like a bit of an odd coincidence, now that I mention it. Anyways, since Taldain is around a giant (or a supergiant? I'm not good with astronomy), that would be my guess.

[Stark]

@Pagerunner Thanks for the fast answer.  But I'm not sure it will be another Shardworld.  Unless it is one we either have not seen yet, or is where an unnamed Shard lives (or lived).  All we know about Reya is that she(?) is important and not Cultivation.  It seems to me like a star, or planet, named for her(?) would be noticeable on the star chart.  That said, the "brightest" points I see on the map are Roshar, Taldain and First of the Sun (Shardless), where as the darkest points seem to be Threnody and the Scar...

 

Taldain is a neat pick, as you have the two stars orbiting each other.  Also, I like your coincidence of the major worlds being close to each other (other than Threnody and first).  I wonder if their spatial relationship and orientation matches up with the various expanses on the shadesmar map?  Going clockwise around Roshar we have Scadrial, Nalthis, Sel and then Taldain.  In the Shadesmar Map, we have (the expanse of) Vapors, Vibrance, Densities and Broken sky.

 

That kind of lines up, doesn't it?  Scadrial-Vapors (mist). Nalthis-Vibrance (colour). Taldain-Broken Sky (Tidally locked).  Sel-Densities (This one I'm lost with, maybe because the magic is location based you have dense magical locations that taper out, I know, I'm stretching)

 

Anyhow, that is far afield my original desire to know where Reya's Tear is...

 

I guess I'll ask Brandon about that if ever I get a chance to get my copy of AU signed.  Where, if anywhere, on the star map is Reya's tear?

[Demiandre]

11 minutes ago, Stark said:

Sel-Densities (This one I'm lost with, maybe because the magic is location based you have dense magical locations that taper out, I know, I'm stretching)

Brandon recently revealed that Devotion and Dominion were pressed tighly together in the Cognitive Realm of Sel. That could explain the density, and so, it seems to match.

But isn't it too easy ? We don't have the distances and relative position in a 3D plane. Some planets or Shardworld could be closer than it seems.

 

EDIT : I don't know if what I'll say is right, but according to WoR, Reya's Tear would be "roughly" located under Taln Scar :

Quote

"The sun hadn't quite set, but in the darkening sky, stars had begun to appear around Taln's Scar. The Tear hung just above the horizon, a star much brighter than the others, named for the single tear Reya was said to have shed. "

 

Edited December 13, 2016 by Demiandre
additional information

[Stark]

1 hour ago, Demiandre said:

EDIT : I don't know if what I'll say is right, but according to WoR, Reya's Tear would be "roughly" located under Taln Scar :

Based on that, maybe Reya's Tear is the large yellow star running along the side of the sword, but not included in the Rosharan Constellation?  It is almost directly between Roshar and the Scar, but notably not part of the constellation (if that even matters)

[Demiandre]

2 minutes ago, Stark said:

Based on that, maybe Reya's Tear is the large yellow star running along the side of the sword, but not included in the Rosharan Constellation?  It is almost directly between Roshar and the Scar, but notably not part of the constellation (if that even matters)

I thought about it, but it doesn't look that bright compared to Taldain, or First of the Sun. But I don't know if the color of the stars on the map match the true sun of said planetary system (i.e red, white or yellow)

[KidWayne]

So if you look at the position of Roshar on the Cosmere map...

you can kind of extrapolate where the "Expanses" on the Shadesmar map lead since we know that the Expanse of the Vapors leads to Scadrial.

To do so you would need to imagine holding a copy of the Shadesmar map in front of you...

and place it face down on top of the Cosmere map, rotating the top edge of the map towards your body. Now the Expanse of the Vapors is pointing towards Scadrial. Sort of like this...

This means that the Expanse of the Broken Sky is Nalthis and the Expanse of the Densities is Sel. The remaining corner would point toward Taldain which is apparently closed, so it makes sense that an "Expanse of the ___" would not be listed for Taldain.

However, you could also rotate the map this way and still have the Expanse of the Vapors pointing towards Scadrial:

This would change the assignments to:

• Expanse of the Broken Sky → Taldain
• Expanse of the Densities → Sel
• Blank Corner → points toward Nalthis

I favor the first (i.e. landscape) orientation because having the blank corner point to Taldain makes a lot of sense.

 

Edited December 13, 2016 by KidWayne

[Stark]

11 minutes ago, KidWayne said:

To do so you would need to imagine holding a copy of the Shadesmar map in front of you...

I came to that conclusion by switching between the images on two pages of my web browser and tilting my head a lot....  Thanks for making it far more visual!

 

Though you may want to edit to say blank corner towards Nalthis.  And I believe the blank corner has been confirmed to be the Expanse of Vibrance, which fits with the colours of Nalthis...

Edited December 13, 2016 by Stark

[Pagerunner]

33 minutes ago, KidWayne said:

So if you look at the position of Roshar on the Cosmere map...

[snip]

you can kind of extrapolate where the "Expanses" on the Shadesmar map lead since we know that the Expanse of the Vapors leads to Scadrial.

To do so you would need to imagine holding a copy of the Shadesmar map in front of you...

[snip]

and place it face down on top of the Cosmere map, rotating the top edge of the map towards your body. Now the Expanse of the Vapors is pointing towards Scadrial. Sort of like this...

[snip]

This means that the Expanse of the Broken Sky is Nalthis and the Expanse of the Densities is Sel. The remaining corner would point toward Taldain which is apparently closed, so it makes sense that an "Expanse of the ___" would not be listed for Taldain.

However, you could also rotate the map this way and still have the Expanse of the Vapors pointing towards Scadrial:

[snip]

This would change the assignments to:

• Expanse of the Broken Sky → Taldain
• Expanse of the Densities → Sel
• Blank Corner → points toward Nalthis

I favor the first (i.e. landscape) orientation because having the blank corner point to Taldain makes a lot of sense.

 

It's not actually blank - according to WoB, there was another expanse, the 'Expanse of Vibrance,' that was cut to add the name. I don't think there's an in-universe reason.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Pagerunner

[KidWayne]

14 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

It's not actually blank - according to WoB, there was another expanse, the 'Expanse of Vibrance,' that was cut to add the name. I don't think there's an in-universe reason.

Well, "Expanse of the Vibrance" makes a lot of sense for Nalthis with its colors. On the other hand, "Expanse of the Densities" makes no sense at all for Sel so I'm not sure that it matters. However, that tidbit does make me favor the portrait orientation over the landscape orientation. So, we are all on board with this now, right?

                                       Taldain (Expanse of the Broken Sky)                                                                   Scadrial (Expanse of the Vapors)

                                       Sel   (Expanse of the Densities)                                                                         Nalthis (Expanse of the Vibrance)   

 

 

Edited December 13, 2016 by KidWayne

[Stark]

@KidWayne Definitely on board.

 

I've heard a theory that the densities on Sel has to do with both Dominion and Devotion being compressed into the cognitive realm may have something to do with it.  Also, the magic is location locked, and if Elantris is any example, the magics are centered on cities, which is where population is at its most dense.  There are a couple of indirect ways to view it.

 

Just like Taldain = Expanse of the Broken Sky makes sense from the point of view that the sky does not change.  It is like a broken watch, it does not move, due to being tidally locked.

[Pagerunner]

1 minute ago, KidWayne said:

Well, "Expanse of the Vibrance" makes a lot of sense for Nalthis with its colors. On the other hand, "Expanse of the Densities" makes no sense at all for Sel so I'm not sure that it matters. However, that tidbit does make me favor the portrait orientation over the landscape orientation. So, we are all on board with this now, right?

                                                                  Taldain (Expanse of the Broken Sky)                                                                    Scadrial (Expanse of the Vapors)

[snip]

                                                                       Sel   (Expanse of the Densities)                                                                          Nalthis (Expanse of the Vibrance)                      

That's the consensus that's been reached in other threads, with the same objection over Densities for Sel. Personally, I'm hesitant to commit to anything, though, since I'm not sure that the star chart is from an appropriate point-of-view to match the Shadesmar map. And besides, it's very easy to stretch a word of phrase to match any Shardworld. Before we had the Scadrial/Vapors reveal, I thought that

• Vapors = Breath = Nalthis
• Vibrance = Dor's Light = Sel
• Broken Sky = Ash = Scadrial (the phrase was used multiple times in the original trilogy! I think it was even a chapter heading, once, for one of Marsh's POVs, IIRC)

So, I'm hesitant in general, and not on board. But don't let me stop you, since I won't be getting on board with anything.

[Stark]

Oh, other people came to that conclusion first?  There goes that sensation of being smart.  People are fast here.

 

Still, wondering about Reya's tear though, and if there is an analog on the other worlds...

[Shlee]

For some reason, I always assumed Reya's Tear was either Ashyn or Braize. I guess because using our world as an example - you can see other stars, but the abnormally "bright" ones are typically planets within our own system. I can't think of any planet outside our system that's visible off the top my head.

Would also explain why only Roshar seems to mention it.

[Windrunner]

My curiosity is where Ashyn and Braize woulf fall on that map of Shadesmar that we got from TWoK. Presumably they are adjacent to Roshar, as they share the same system. I could see an argument wherein Braize might not have a huge representation on the Cognitive Realm, as it is populated wholly by Splinters, but Ashyn as a populated world should be nearby, in my mind. I've always rather thought it might be the Expanse of the Broken Skies, as it has the floating cities on it, which should probably do something quite odd in Shadesmar. I'm pretty sure that Vibrance corresponds to Nalthis and Vapors corresponds to Scadrial though. The names just make too much sense to me.

[Jondesu]

11 hours ago, FiveLate said:

OK I just realized that I have been completely wrong about my understanding of something for a long time.  People seem to use the term Shadesmar and Cognative Realm interchangeably.  So I just kept plugging along assuming that Shadesmar was the local term for the Cognative Realm on Roshar.  Same thing, different places call the same things different names.  Like some places it will be a water fountain, others a water cooler, others a bubbler, and others a scuttlebutt.

No it is like Utah, United States of America.   It is Shadesmar, Cognative Realm of the Cosmere.   It is a zip code....An area code.

Actually, Shadesmar is just the Rosharan term for the Cognitive Realm.  Khriss uses it to refer to the Cognitive Realm in at least one place not referring to Roshar at all, so she's adopted the term it seems.  You weren't really wrong in the first place.

[Jondesu]

1 hour ago, FiveLate said:

Hmmm, that is interesting, ill have to check into that.  I still think that the map of Shadesmar only shows the Rosharan portion of it though.  I started a theory thread on it and will flesh it out some more on my next break.

Oh, agreed, that map is of the Cognitive Realm around Roshar.  Shadesmar isn't just that map, though.