Landis963 Posted November 28, 2016 Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 5 hours ago, Full Metal Rithmatist said: Does harmony not say he doesnt know what the thing surrounding Scadrial is ? if it was odium i think hed know. Harmony doesn't have Ati's or Leras' memories, nor has he read the Stormlight Archive. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Metal Rithmatist Posted November 28, 2016 Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 12 hours ago, Landis963 said: Harmony doesn't have Ati's or Leras' memories, nor has he read the Stormlight Archive. he knows what other shards are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landis963 Posted November 28, 2016 Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 44 minutes ago, Full Metal Rithmatist said: he knows what other shards are True, but he does not know who other Shards are. Only that they are not Ruin or Preservation. (And he has not made an appointment with Khriss to get a fuller picture, probably doesn't even know she exists) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VirtuousTraveller Posted November 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 Update to the OP here, in light of the AU Essays and some new WoBs: Quote Question For the shard in Bleeder, is it from a shard we know? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Source This has been evidence that Trell has to be connected to one of the Shards we've been made aware of to this point in the game. This WoB was before AU was released, so that limited this to Devotion, Dominion, or Honor (unlikely as they've been splintered), Odium or Cultivation (unlikely as they're stuck in Roshar), Preservation/Ruin/Harmony (impossible, as Harmony did not know where this shard came from), or Autonomy, the shard of the Taldain system. We didn't know anything else about Autonomy at the time of this WoB, other than the name of its Vessel, Bavadin. Quote From the Taldain Essay: Autonomy's policy of isolationism in recent times (in direct contrast with her interference with other planets, I might add) has prevented travel to and from Taldain for many, many years. We now can confirm that Autonomy has been engaged in off-world interference with other planets. This supports the idea that Bleeder's motives were influenced by Autonomy, as they were focused on freeing people on Scadrial from oppression. Miles and Suit were involved with a mysterious organization known as The Set, which had a cult-like following of Trell, some kind of demigod that was directing their steps (as evidenced by the Red Eyed Immortals in BoM). Quote From Reddit: mistborn: Bavadin has several male personas, and has often appeared as male for one purpose or another, so it's not that much of an issue. She has more female personas, but some of the male ones are quite popular. This won't be relevant for a long while, but as a service to the community, let me say this: try not to get too hung up on gender, race, or even human appearance where Bavadin is concerned. There are some peoples who worship entire pantheons where every member is actually her. Quote QUESTION Can you give me any information about Trell? BRANDON SANDERSON It read: "Trell has been many things over the eons... So Autonomy has influenced various peoples on various planets via religious pantheons - this leads me to believe (as have others) that the Trell we read about in Mistborn Era 1 may not necessarily be the same Trell we see in Mistborn Era 2, that perhaps something has hijacked this belief system as a way of manipulation/influence on Scadrial that doesn't stand out too much from accepted (or at least recognized) religions there. This fits with the idea that Bavadin has often appeared with many different personas for various purposes over time. This begs the question, why would Autonomy be so engaged in off-world interference, which seems to be in direct opposition with its shardic intent of autonomy? Updated Theory Proposition The Red-Eyed Immortals on Scadrial are of Autonomy, which is not only interfering with the people there, but is doing so with the intentions of making Harmony believe it is Odium doing the interfering. Why do this? Isn't it a roundabout way of interfering on another planet? Yes, but Autonomy has interfered in such a way in the past to create entire pantheons of religious gods on a planet while being the only man/woman behind every mask. Autonomy is acting in self-preservation for its own long-term autonomy - dual/fused shards pose a risk of being more powerful and Odium poses a risk of desiring to be the only shard left unsplintered in the cosmere. Quote MORIDIN997 Did Bavadin in any way help Odium splinter Dominion and Devotion? BRANDON SANDERSON Uhh... Yes... Yes, you could say that.. First, yes this WoB could be an example of Brandon being Brandon and feeding us a vague answer to a vague question. HOWEVER, if it isn't that, then it would stand to reason that Autonomy, who wouldn't want any fused/combined shards from existing to challenge its own power, would want to help an enemy with a bloodlust and willingness to attack other shards. Even if you don't buy into the idea of Devotion and Dominion being fused together into the fused shard Unity, their Vessels were possibly involved romantically and could be viewed as a unified threat (i.e. the power of two shards) that could risk opposition to Autonomy and challenge Odium's place of dominance in cosmere. After all, The Letter from Hoid doesn't just call out Rayse/Odium: Quote "You have accused me of perpetuating my grudge against Rayse and Bavadin." Why would Hoid have a grudge against Rayse AND Bavadin? Sure, there could be two separate grudges for completely different and unrelated reasons, however Hoid refers to his grudge (SINGULAR) against two individuals - the Vessels of Odium and Autonomy. These two (possibly) have targeted planets with two shards that could be working together before (Sel: Dominion/Devotion; Roshar: Honor/Cultivation), why would the pattern be any different now? Autonomy could be baiting Harmony into a conflict with Odium by mimicking Odium's presence (i.e. "red eyes," the death rattle-esk words of Miles, etc). Trick the bully into fighting your fights so they're weaker when the time finally comes for you to fight them (which I believe Odium would do to Autonomy eventually - no way he'd let Autonomy alone). I know that's a lot, but that's my working theory for now! Whew! I was feeling a high after reading through the Tower sequence near the end of TWoK, but I think I just drained myself of all my Stormlight! :-P Let me know what you think! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stBondsmith Posted November 30, 2016 Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 Well thought @VirtuousTraveller. Some details persist that we have no answers to, but the general premise is very good. This kind of stuff keeps me up late at night...pondering. Could Brandon have thought this all through prior to the novels, or is it popping up as he goes, and he wordsmiths it into past conversations? Either way it is amazingly fun to read and work through. My wife and I recognized the same quote ties when we read AU. Only difference we have is that the titles, Bavadin, Trell, and Autonomy seem almost all interchangeable, and now we find that they are legion. So until we get some confirmation, deciding which is which does not matter now while I read. We will enjoy the roller coaster without moping that we can't see the next loop. Can you think of another fantasy writer anywhere who gets the scientific, moral realism, or experiential parallel scrutiny Brandon does? Everyone else gets a big pass, "'cuz it's magic! Duh!". For plot detail and fun, NOBODY tops Sanderson. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VirtuousTraveller Posted December 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 5 hours ago, 1stBondsmith said: Well thought @VirtuousTraveller. Some details persist that we have no answers to, but the general premise is very good. This kind of stuff keeps me up late at night...pondering. Could Brandon have thought this all through prior to the novels, or is it popping up as he goes, and he wordsmiths it into past conversations? Either way it is amazingly fun to read and work through. My wife and I recognized the same quote ties when we read AU. Only difference we have is that the titles, Bavadin, Trell, and Autonomy seem almost all interchangeable, and now we find that they are legion. So until we get some confirmation, deciding which is which does not matter now while I read. We will enjoy the roller coaster without moping that we can't see the next loop. Can you think of another fantasy writer anywhere who gets the scientific, moral realism, or experiential parallel scrutiny Brandon does? Everyone else gets a big pass, "'cuz it's magic! Duh!". For plot detail and fun, NOBODY tops Sanderson. Thank you for your kind words my friend! How lucky we are to be alive right now! =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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