The Lord Ruler is the smartest person in the history of Scadrial *spoilers*

[Revan Kholin he/him]

If we look throughout all the books of Mistborn, we see that the Lord Ruler really thought ahead. In Hero of ages we see that he plants storage caches for atium stashes and food, he expected the events of HoA to happen from the first book, he outwitted Ruin to an extent trapping him instead of letting him out. He also made the bands of mourning expecting Mistborn extinction in the second trilogy. If you look at it this way you can see that he planned a lot, expecting his death and so was ready for repercussions. He delayed Ruins release, for a sliver that's an impressive feat. These reasons lead me to believe that he's the most cunning and smartest person in Scadrial.

Who do you think is the smartest person in Scadrial is?

Edited November 6, 2016 by Revan Kholin

[Spoolofwhool]

Don't forget that he has a major advantage compared to anyone in TFE-period Scadrial: He had ascended. During his ascension, he learned a lot of things. He knew about Ruin's plans and that Preservation's prison was breaking. He was probably also afforded a limited view of the future. Afterwards, the changes which marked him as a sliver likely included an expansion in cognitive, so he was, in general, smarter than most people. In addition, he had the advantage of being a feruchemist; he could tap zinc at moments in order to make mental leaps which he would've normally taken a lot longer to make. There is also the fact that he lived way longer than anyone and had way more experience. 

So yes, he was clearly the smartest person in TFE-period Scadrial. That doesn't really mean much though as an achievement since he acquired it through a means that only a person every one thousand years could've had. Post-ascension, and comparing him against any other Scadrian in terms of intelligence is like comparing a star and a moon for how bright they are. It's a fairly meaningless comparison. You would need to compare him against other ascended to say if he was actual a smart person. 

Also, a couple things.

BoM/MS:SH spoilers

Spoiler

We don't actually know if he was the one who created the BoM which appears in Era 2. In fact, some knowledge seems to indicate that it might've Kelsier who did, though that seems to draw about SH knowledge that I don't have.

Secondly, we can only say he was the smartest in the history of TFE. Over the whole Scadrian history, I have no doubts that the other Heroes of Ages who ascended emerged with an intelligence comparative to his, and we don't know much about their actions so we cannot say how smart he was compared to them. 

Also, Harmony or the other shardholders are probably smarter than him, though I'm assuming you were only comparing him against other non-shardholders.

[Revan Kholin he/him]

8 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Don't forget that he has a major advantage compared to anyone in TFE-period Scadrial: He had ascended. During his ascension, he learned a lot of things. He knew about Ruin's plans and that Preservation's prison was breaking. He was probably also afforded a limited view of the future. Afterwards, the changes which marked him as a sliver likely included an expansion in cognitive, so he was, in general, smarter than most people. In addition, he had the advantage of being a feruchemist; he could tap zinc at moments in order to make mental leaps which he would've normally taken a lot longer to make. There is also the fact that he lived way longer than anyone and had way more experience. 

So yes, he was clearly the smartest person in TFE-period Scadrial. That doesn't really mean much though as an achievement since he acquired it through a means that only a person every one thousand years could've had. Post-ascension, and comparing him against any other Scadrian in terms of intelligence is like comparing a star and a moon for how bright they are. It's a fairly meaningless comparison.

You're right but if you want to compare him to Harmony, I'd still see him as smarter. The way he the Lord Ruler used his power and intellect was much smarter compared to Harmony. If we look at Era 2, its quite evident that Harmony although not used to his power as a Shard yet still has difficulties and is need of Wax most of the time. The Lord Ruler had it for a limited time but still managed to quell most problems in Scadrial and took many years until there were real threats to him.

17 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

 

  Hide contents

We don't actually know if he was the one who created the BoM which appears in Era 2. In fact, some knowledge seems to indicate that it might've Kelsier who did, though that seems to draw about SH knowledge that I don't have.

 

If Kelsier made the Bands we'd have to assume he knows about storing identity and connection, meaning if he did he would've surely used it in some way against the Lord Ruler.

[Spoolofwhool]

32 minutes ago, Revan Kholin said:

f Kelsier made the Bands we'd have to assume he knows about storing identity and connection, meaning if he did he would've surely used it in some way against the Lord Ruler.

Spoiler

Kelsier is theorized to have made the bands post-death. TLR was well dead at that point.

 

[Shadeshadow227]

31 minutes ago, Revan Kholin said:

If Kelsier made the Bands we'd have to assume he knows about storing identity and connection, meaning if he did he would've surely used it in some way against the Lord Ruler.

No, he couldn't have.

Spoiler

That knowledge was gained when he took up Preservation's power after dying and going to the Cognitive Realm.

He was already dead when he gained the knowledge, so he couldn't have used it. By the time he came back as the Sovereign, TLR was already dead.

[Revan Kholin he/him]

3 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

  Hide contents

Kelsier is theorized to have made the bands post-death. TLR was well dead at that point.

 

I see, thx for elaborating

[Spoolofwhool]

43 minutes ago, Revan Kholin said:

You're right but if you want to compare him to Harmony, I'd still see him as smarter. The way he the Lord Ruler used his power and intellect was much smarter compared to Harmony. If we look at Era 2, its quite evident that Harmony although not used to his power as a Shard yet still has difficulties and is need of Wax most of the time. The Lord Ruler had it for a limited time but still managed to quell most problems in Scadrial and took many years until there were real threats to him.

Unfortunately, the premise you're using to compare TLR and Harmony doesn't work. Saying that TLR was smarter than Harmony because he acted in a smarter way and used his power more wisely falls flat when you consider the fact that Harmony admits that he is unable to use his power to the fullest extent because of certain restrictions. As such, I still think Harmony is smarter that TLR, because he had a better education pre-Ascension, and he is holding two shards, with their combined knowledge, along with all the knowledge from his copperminds. 

Don't get me wrong though. I agree that TLR was the smartest person on Scadrial, but only if you consider the scope of time from when the previous Hero of Ages died to present and exclude Shards. Otherwise, I would argue that we don't know how he would measure compared to the other Heroes of Ages, and they could've been smarter, and the shards were definitely smarter than him during TFE-period.

[Darkness Ascendant he/him]

5 hours ago, Revan Kholin said:

If we look throughout all the books of Mistborn, we see that the Lord Ruler really thought ahead. In Hero of ages we see that he plants storage caches for atium stashes and food, he expected the events of HoA to happen from the first book, he outwitted Ruin to an extent trapping him instead of letting him out. He also made the bands of mourning expecting Mistborn extinction in the second trilogy. If you look at it this way you can see that he planned a lot, expecting his death and so was ready for repercussions. He delayed Ruins release, for a sliver that's an impressive feat. These reasons lead me to believe that he's the most cunning and smartest person in Scadrial.

Who do you think is the smartest person in Scadrial is?

Batman. 

[HonorIsDead he/him]

10 hours ago, Revan Kholin said:

If we look at Era 2, its quite evident that Harmony although not used to his power as a Shard yet still has difficulties and is need of Wax most of the time. The Lord Ruler had it for a limited time but still managed to quell most problems in Scadrial and took many years until there were real threats to him.

also, most of the problems TLR fixed were ones he created, the mists were snapping people so he moved the planet which caused most of the problems seen in TFE, the ashmounts were to stop some of the extra heat, the people were physically changed to live with ash, the plants were changed to live with out light and so on, quite a few of the problems he solved were just quick fixes to the mistakes he made while trying to fix things. Though he did prepare for a post death apocalypse which was definitely one of the best things he did for his people and a very smart move.

I agree he was probably one of the smartest, if not the smartest non shard holder on scadrial at the time, however saze is probably smarter, what with everything he knows from his coperminds and the fact that he (I assume) can kind of see the future like Leras could, though you can't really compare them since a) harmony can't do all the much incase he pushes the balance between ruin and harmony too much and ends up splitting, like Adonalsium, and b ) saze is a few shard holder, not to mention he's holding 2 shards, not just one, where as TLR was only a sliver and that was only the power of one shard

[soyperson]

12 hours ago, Revan Kholin said:

If we look throughout all the books of Mistborn, we see that the Lord Ruler really thought ahead. In Hero of ages we see that he plants storage caches for atium stashes and food, he expected the events of HoA to happen from the first book, he outwitted Ruin to an extent trapping him instead of letting him out. He also made the bands of mourning expecting Mistborn extinction in the second trilogy. If you look at it this way you can see that he planned a lot, expecting his death and so was ready for repercussions. He delayed Ruins release, for a sliver that's an impressive feat. These reasons lead me to believe that he's the most cunning and smartest person in Scadrial.

Who do you think is the smartest person in Scadrial is?

...Harmony?

[cometaryorbit]

TLR was the most knowledgeable person on Scadrial during his time (excluding Shards, anyway - Preservation was near-mindless, but Ruin had access to his own knowledge). However, I don't think he was even close to the smartest, because he didn't do very well with that knowledge. I'd say Kelsier, Vin, and Elend are probably all smarter, in different ways (Kelsier's a planner, Vin's intuitive, and Elend's scholarly).

He became arrogant and sloppy - if he'd played things smart he never would have been defeated. Vin had a chance to beat him because he fought to show off rather than win quickly. If he'd used a massive pulse of Compounded Speed and Strength, and Health to survive any air resistance/friction issues, he could have killed Vin in a fraction of a second - long before she had time to figure out what the Malatium vision meant.

Similarly, with Compounded Gold (and maybe Electrum and/or Bronze to stay conscious) TLR could perform surgery on himself. Implanting his metalminds entirely within his body wouldn't have made them immune to Vin's Shard fueled Steelpush, but it would have denied her a critical clue.

Also, given that TLR knew about Ruin, making Inquisitors was a stupid move. The Kandra were part of his plan against Ruin, and you could argue that another Hemalurgic species was useful to set that up/deceive Ruin, so the Koloss are justifiable (plus they were very useful in conquering the world). But the Inquisitors are just stupid - far too powerful of tools to put into Ruin's hands. Without Inquisitors, Yomen would have been the only effective opposition Vin and Elend had in HOA.

[goody153]

Well Rashek's plans with the cache's and the careful planning of the hiding of Atium was certainly damnation brilliant along with his insanely stable government. Yeah he's probably the cleverest person short of Ruin in the series.

Though the Bands are not his from era 2, i mean not intentionally crafted by him.

 

Quote

Also, given that TLR knew about Ruin, making Inquisitors was a stupid move. The Kandra were part of his plan against Ruin, and you could argue that another Hemalurgic species was useful to set that up/deceive Ruin, so the Koloss are justifiable (plus they were very useful in conquering the world). But the Inquisitors are just stupid - far too powerful of tools to put into Ruin's hands. Without Inquisitors, Yomen would have been the only effective opposition Vin and Elend had in HOA.

Tbh i don't think he really knew that Hemalurgy was directly linked to Ruin. Also it must be insanely difficult to actually fight somebody who could insert thoughts and make you feel like you need to do something. 

I mean think about what Vin did the entire book 2 & 3 , it seems like it was her urge to look for the Atium was part of something grand, she felt like it was important but it was for Ruin's whole sake. Ruin could make some things important for other people without even you knowing.

Edited November 7, 2016 by goody153

[cometaryorbit]

1 hour ago, goody153 said:

Tbh i don't think he really knew that Hemalurgy was directly linked to Ruin.

According to Sazed in the HOA epigraphs, he knew enough to set up the Kandra as double-agents against Ruin (the Resolution - pulling out their Blessings when Ruin tried to control them), so he definitely knew Ruin could control Hemalurgic creatures.

Quote

Also it must be insanely difficult to actually fight somebody who could insert thoughts and make you feel like you need to do something. 

I mean think about what Vin did the entire book 2 & 3 , it seems like it was her urge to look for the Atium was part of something grand, she felt like it was important but it was for Ruin's whole sake. Ruin could make some things important for other people without even you knowing.

Ruin was messing with TLR's mind, granted, but unlike Vin, he had the advantage of knowing that was possible. And he was clearly able to set up organized plots against Ruin, like the Storage Caverns, so 'not creating Inquisitors' ought to have been within his ability. And even if Ruin drove him into doing it at some low point, he could have destroyed them later.

[Yata he/him]

Actually make Koloss and Inquisitors are not a really stupid move from TLR's PoV....Ruin can't overcome TLR's control on them while is still imprisoned

From Rashek's PoV his death is quite impossible and in the case Scadrial was condamend, Inquisitors or not.

[goody153]

8 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

According to Sazed in the HOA epigraphs, he knew enough to set up the Kandra as double-agents against Ruin (the Resolution - pulling out their Blessings when Ruin tried to control them), so he definitely knew Ruin could control Hemalurgic creatures.

Ruin was messing with TLR's mind, granted, but unlike Vin, he had the advantage of knowing that was possible. And he was clearly able to set up organized plots against Ruin, like the Storage Caverns, so 'not creating Inquisitors' ought to have been within his ability. And even if Ruin drove him into doing it at some low point, he could have destroyed them later.

I'm not sure about that can you quote that HOA epigraphs. Remember that Ruin being on your mind doesn't just mean he could just whisper into your thoughts he could encourage desires, make you feel things he wants which can be lead to doing something that would help him.

He does know about hemalurgy but i don't think he's completely aware how linked it is to Ruin. 

[Spoolofwhool]

44 minutes ago, goody153 said:

I'm not sure about that can you quote that HOA epigraphs. Remember that Ruin being on your mind doesn't just mean he could just whisper into your thoughts he could encourage desires, make you feel things he wants which can be lead to doing something that would help him.

He does know about hemalurgy but i don't think he's completely aware how linked it is to Ruin. 

Quote

The kandra people always said they were of Preservation, while the koloss and Inquisitors were of Ruin. Yet, the kandra bore Hemalurgic spikes, just like the others. Was their claim, then, simple delusion?

No, I think not. They were created by the Lord Ruler to be spies. When they said such things, most of us interpreted that as meaning he planned to use them as spies in his new government, because of their ability to imitate other people. Indeed, they were used for this purpose.

But I see something much more grand in their existence. They were the Lord Ruler's double agents, planted with Hemalurgic spikes, yet trusted—taught, bound—to pull them free when Ruin tried to seize them. In Ruin's moment of triumph, when he'd always assumed the kandra would be his on a whim, the vast majority of them immediately switched sides and left him unable to seize his prize.

They were of Preservation all along.

Hero of Ages Epigraph, Chapter 80

The implications seem to be that Rashek knew that Ruin could control hemalurgic creations. There were also other hints throughout the epigraphs.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Spoolofwhool

[cometaryorbit]

22 hours ago, Yata said:

From Rashek's PoV his death is quite impossible and in the case Scadrial was condamend, Inquisitors or not.

Except that he set up plans for his death... that's what the storage caverns were meant for. Ruin couldn't get out with TLR alive, since TLR had the Well hidden under his palace, under a door which required an unnaturally strong Allomancer to open (or duralumin, but that wasn't known to anyone else when TLR was alive).

One of Rashek's metal plate inscriptions even says something to the effect of 'if you read this while I'm still alive, don't tell anyone or I'll kill you' (not worded that way). So it was definitely planned in case of his death.

[JUQ he/him]

I'm thinking Leras, if he counts. Remember, Leras thought to imprison Ruin, realized that that wouldn't be enough, so constructed an elaborate plot to cause someone to take up two shards. Also, some of the things TLR did were manipulations by Leras as well. Sure, some things came unstuck with the plans, but the other main characters managed to sort that out.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

Concerning smart people: 

Except for folks with Shard-knowledge, I want to say that I think Kelsiers true plan was pretty brilliant, considering the knowledge he had when he made it.

The Survivor would probably get good results at Scadrian IQ tests.