17th Shard Idea

[JUQ he/him]

We see that one of the members of the 17th Shard is Demoux. We also know that Frost is likely the leader of the 17th, and he is insistent on non-intervention. However, these facts don't work out for me, because Demoux was a staunch Survivorist last time we saw him, and Kelsier is well known for sticking his nose where he shouldn't. If Demoux follows Kelsier that much, what led him to join the 17th Shard?

Also, please put anything for books I haven't mentioned in the tags in spoilers. I know this forum isn't as strict as the others, but I really don't want to have BoM or M:SH spoiled.

Edited October 4, 2016 by The True Survivor

[Ardjet]

What if Demoux got the idea that Kelsier might still be around(maybe pieced together from hearing Spook's tale as Survivor of the Flames? Maybe some knowledge gleaned during/after the Catacendre? I dunno.), and began looking into the existence of other realms to try and contact Kelsier? Just an idea that rolled off my head.

[Darkness Ascendant he/him]

Or, even more far-fetched, Sazed. Sazed told him about the 17th Shard.

[JUQ he/him]

@Ardjet and @Darkness Ascendant, you're both missing the point. The point is that Demoux's principles don't really align with those of the 17th Shard.

[Eki]

I don't think we actually know if Frost is in the 17th shard, just that they are his "friends". Personally, I think he's a member, or at least a close ally, but I don't think we know for sure.

I think Frost's argument is specifically about worldhoppers not intervening with the actions of the shards, because he believes the things that are happening are all part of a grander plan made by Adonalsium. He thinks that those who can't see the wider picture (basically, anyone other than Adonalsium or the shards themselves) shouldn't try to get in the way. At least, that's how I see it.

Of course, there is a big contradiction in this, because the 17th shard goes after Hoid... thus intervening as worldhoppers. By trying to stop someone else from intervening, but still. If Adonalsium really did have a plan, why would Hoid not be part of it?

So really, while they have an agenda of non-intervention, I don't think they're exactly passive.

And there are hundreds of years between the two series - Demoux probably changed a lot.

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

He may have been introduced by his wife. I believe she is a confirmed world hopper?

[The One Who Connects he/him]

56 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

He may have been introduced by his wife. I believe she is a confirmed world hopper?

I'm having difficulty finding the source (because the best of my memory is "Demoux's Wife")
I am fairly sure that you are correct though.

[ParadoxicalZen he/him]

We only know from the Letter that Frost has friends in the org, not that he actually leads them or is even a part of it. It is possible he likely informed them of Hoid's general location maybe, fulfilling his nonintervention policy by not directly getting involved 

EDIT: what eki said

Edited October 5, 2016 by AnanasSpren

[Argel he/him]

17 hours ago, The True Survivor said:

@Ardjet and @Darkness Ascendant, you're both missing the point. The point is that Demoux's principles don't really align with those of the 17th Shard.

We see him close to 300 years after Mistborn Era1 -- is it really that hard to believe that 1) his views could have changed upon reflection of the Mistborn era 1 events and/or 2) learning about the Cosmere and how much bigger things are, and/or 3) views of his wife could have swayed him?

Also, even if the goal is non-intervention, he is taking an active role in achieving that. The job only gets boring if they manage to actually put a stop to Hoid's antics.

I don't really see a problem here -- the most important thing in my mind about the crew Kelsier put together is they actually did have principles and a goal that went beyond crime. What would imo be out of character for Demoux is if he switched to a life of crime. I don't really see it as that odd that he has joined an organization with a set of principles revolving around the fate of the Cosmere.

It's also possible to make the case that looking back at Mistborn Era 1, while things did work out, they put Scadrial at great risk, and he may see the merits in being more cautious.

Anyway, I think the real question is what is it about the 17th Shard that Demoux related to the most -- what convinced him to join?