General Magic Question

[Tsidqiyah he/him]

So I know that all magic systems in the Cosmere requires investiture.  But i have been seeing "Bonds" "focus" "fuel"  and a number or other terms that are use in relation to the various magic systems in the Comere. Can someone either give me or point me to a brief overview of how magic generally works within the Cosmere?

 

I don't need specifics ie I Know stormlight is the source of investiture on Roshar. But i am looking for general information. such as what is the role of bonds? What are focuses etc.

[Pagerunner he/him]

There are some official terms, and there are some unofficial terms adopted by the fanbase. Official terms for magic fundamentals include Investiture (the power of a Shard, used to power a magic system) and Initiation (the way that an individual gains access to a magic system). So, the Investiture is drawn from the magic user through an Initiated user to perform magic. The Investiture needs a path to get into the user; cracks in the user's soul (sometimes referred to as Spiritweb or sDNA [which stands for spiritual DNA]) are often one such path. Most of the terms you're asking about, however, are terms that theorists have come up with to explain similarities between magic systems; I don't think Brandon has referred to them formally as such, and I've left them uncapitalized when I introduce them.

A focus is kind of like a key that determines, for a magic system, how the Investiture is channeled and used. It appears to be planet-specific. On Scadrial, it's metal; as we see in Secret History and Bands of Mourning, metal is a gateway to Investiture on Scadrial, having a brilliance in the cognitive realm independent of any of the three metallic arts. It appears to be form or shape, possibly even language, on Sel, where different words will give different results. There's been speculation that it's sound on Roshar, based on the shape of the Dawncities and the fact that Surgebinders must speak their oaths.

We've seen bonds form between individuals and pieces of Investiture called Splinters. These bonds alter the spiritweb. On Roshar, a bond with a spren is the only way to Surgebind. In Elantris, people can bond Seons, but it looks to be independent of becoming an Elantrian. It's possible that these bonds the focus for Surgebinding, fabrial science, and Voidbinding; that would mean that Roshar, specifically, is where a bond grants a user magical abilities.

We've also seen fuel, which may or may not be the same thing as Focus. In many magic systems, something else is consumed when someone uses magic. In Allomancy, it's metal. Feruchemy and Hemalurgy both have forms of decay for the Investiture that's stored or stolen. On Nalthis, it's color. On Taldain, it's water. On Roshar, frost appears when a lot of surgebinding is done, so it's been speculated that heat might be the fuel. I can't think of anything that fits on Sel, unless it's earth and the Elantrians themselves caused the Reod by drawing too many Aons.

Unless you were referring to fuel as the way that Stormlight and the mists fuel magic systems. They are a physical form of Investiture, and they have been referred to as 'Gaseous Investiture.' It looks (to me at least) like individuals with some kind of bond (all we've seen so far are Vin, who was bonded to Preservation, and new Surgebinders) can take this Investiture into their bodies and power their magic without the usual connection to the Shard. It appears to be a universal form of Investiture on all planets, kind of like Shardpools are liquid Investiture, but we've only seen it on two worlds. (Fair warning, this is kind of a pet theory of mine, that Stormlight is not the usual power behind Surgebinding. We know for a fact that Stormlight is Honor's analogue to Preservation's Mists, and that Highstorms are a natural phenomenon that predate 'stuff going down'; I think that the KR we saw in a flashback were drawing Investiture directly from Honor, which is why they glowed, and that modern-day Surgebinders need Stormlight because Honor has been Shattered.)

There's also Solid Investiture, which is a Shard's metal, which so far have allowed Initiation in magic systems. (Atium can steal anything, Lerasium makes someone a Mistborn, and Honorblades let someone become a Surgebinder.) I suspect they all allow direct access to the Spiritual Realm manipulate a being's spiritweb. Liquid Investiture forms Shardpools, which allow direct access to the Cognitive Realm. A person whose mind has been expanded by too much Investiture (i.e. holding a significant portion of a Shard) is called a Sliver. (A Savant has their physical body altered by too much Investiture.)

Bonds might be tied into the Three Realms of the Cosmere, We've only begun to look into the other Realms, but one other concept for the underlying mechanics of many magic systems is Connection. In the Spiritual Realm, all objects are Connected to other objects, in an outside-of-time kind of way. Seeing the future involves seeing Connections between objects, and Shai's Forging alters Connections to transmute objects. Identity is another concept in the Spiritual Realm, and magic systems can make use of a user's Identity (like Feruchemists aren't able to user one another's metalminds, and Awakeners can't take back Breath from someone else's construct). The Realms are a larger world that exists regardless of specific magic systems; on First of the Sun, the individuals have Identity and Connection, even if they don't have any way to access or manipulate them. Some magic systems will use these (especially more complex ones, like the Metallic Arts or Surgebinding), but some won't (Sand Mastery, especially, seems quite simple). A Cognitive Shadow is a person's ghost, a remnant of their mind that can stay in the Cognitive Realm after their death in the Physical and Spiritual Realms under the proper circumstances.

So, I don't know if there is a simple overall explanation out in public yet. I'm sure Brandon has it in his head somewhere, but the understanding on the forums has been pieced together by comparing similarities; building it top-down, rather than up from a foundation. Empirically determined, not fundamentally derived. (I know you said you didn't need specifics, but that's why I provided them, because all we have right now are similarities between a couple sets of specifics.) And since we're still seeing new magic systems, we're still learning all the ins and outs, and learning how the Cosmere works outside of the specific magic systems, some of this terminology may become obsolete. But, to me, it looks like there are three fundamental areas:

1. The Three Realms of the Cosmere and how they function. (Identity, Connection, Cognitive Shadows)
2. The power of Adonalsium and universal properties of Investiture. (Investiture, Splinters, Slivers, Bonds, Vessels)
3. Specific interactions between Shards and Worlds that produce magic systems. (Initiation, Focus, Fuel)

Hope that's not too in-depth. Any other specific terms you're wondering about?

[DeTess she/her]

I could be mistaken, but the terms you mention are mostly created by fans to help create an internal language to do as you ask, namely describe how the magic system works. Some things are directly from the books (Bonds will almost always refer to something like the Nahel bonds of the Spren), while others are more speculative (focus seems to refer to some kind of physical object involved in using investiture, like metal on Scadrial).

Apologies if I'm completely mistaken and all these terms are in fact official, this was just the impression I got from reading through forum threads in which these terms are used.

Now to get to the question you asked, I'm pretty sure we don't have one official truth about how magic generally works, just a lot of reasonably informed speculation.

[Oversleep]

2 hours ago, Pagerunner said:

Most of the terms you're asking about, however, are terms that theorists have come up with to explain similarities between magic systems; I don't think Brandon has referred to them formally as such, and I've left them uncapitalized when I introduce them.

Most of the terms we use come directly from Brandon. Focus is one of them.

2 hours ago, Pagerunner said:

We've also seen fuel, which may or may not be the same thing as Focus. In many magic systems, something else is consumed when someone uses magic. In Allomancy, it's metal. Feruchemy and Hemalurgy both have forms of decay for the Investiture that's stored or stolen. On Nalthis, it's color. On Taldain, it's water. On Roshar, frost appears when a lot of surgebinding is done, so it's been speculated that heat might be the fuel. I can't think of anything that fits on Sel, unless it's earth and the Elantrians themselves caused the Reod by drawing too many Aons.

You're mixing things up here a little. (BTW, I have never seen 'fuel' being used as a separate term)
Burning metal allows for a flow of Investiture from Preservation. Charge in metalminds does not decay. Hemalurgical spikes decay because Hemalurgy is about power loss.
For color on Nalthis and water on Taldain I've seen used term 'catalyst'.
We do not know what is it about frost on Roshar, but we've seen it only when a rapid expulsion of Stormlight occurs. I suspect it has to do with transition of the Realms, similarly to how Blades are wet when summoned.

2 hours ago, Pagerunner said:

Liquid Investiture forms Shardpools, which allow direct access to the Cognitive Realm.

It's not liquid Investiture that allows access to Cognitive Realm. It's just that a place which naturally collects Shard's Investiture (which is named Shardpool) also transcends Realms and that's why it allows access to the Cognitive Realm.

2 hours ago, Pagerunner said:

A person whose mind has been expanded by too much Investiture (i.e. holding a significant portion of a Shard) is called a Sliver.

It's not about the mind, only about power. It's true that person's mind expands when holding a Shard, but the Sliver refers to somebody who held big portions of Shard's Investiture and let go of it. Brandon described it as deflated balloon. Slivers have a little residue Investiture and their minds retain the changes the Intent caused to them (Ati would have destructive tendencies if he had let go of Ruin; Rashek was fixated on status quo etc).

2 hours ago, Pagerunner said:

A Cognitive Shadow is a person's ghost, a remnant of their mind that can stay in the Cognitive Realm after their death in the Physical and Spiritual Realms under the proper circumstances.

They die only on Physical Realm. Cognitive Shadow still has Spiritual Aspect, although it's ties to Physical Realm have been severed.

@Tsidqiyah, I'd suggest diving into Coppermind to get up speed with Cosmere

Edited September 21, 2016 by Oversleep

[Oversleep]

19 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

I've seen lowercase-f in Mistborn annotations, and Body Focuses in the Stormlight Ars Arcanum, but I haven't seen Brandon officially refer to capital-F focus before; can you provide a link?

Um... Not every term is uppercased

19 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

For Feruchemy, I was basing it on how repeated uses of a coppermind will degrade the information over time

Would you mind providing a source for this? I don't remember anything about copperminds degrading from books and coppermind states they do not degrade and my search on theoryland provides no information on this
EDIT:

Quote

Since the memories in a coppermind do not degrade with time (although they are vulnerable to Ruin's manipulation), it is perfect for the collection of enormous quantities of facts. For this reason, Feruchemists were much more likely to be scholars than warriors. When a Feruchemist stores a memory in a metalmind, it immediately disappears from his memory. The best users of copperminds would create indexes to find memories much faster. Finally, the longer a memory sits outside of a coppermind, the more it degrades.

The source for this is in 15 chapter of WoA where Sazed explicitly states that memories do not degrade in copperminds, only when out of them.

19 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

I don't see any conflict between what you said and what I said. We haven't seen collected solid or gaseous investiture allow worldhopping; it seems like a unique property of the liquid variety.

I meant it's not that a large pool of liquid Investiture allows worldhopping. It's more like Shard's Perpendicularity causes a point of transition and it also causes Investiture to gather there.
Shardpool -> worldhopping
Shardpool -> large amounts of liquid Investiture
and not:
large amounts of liquid Investiture -> worlhopping

I hope it's understadable what I just wrote and not a mess of gibberish.

19 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

Hold up - you start off by saying it's not about the mind, then say that their minds retain the changes? The pattern that we've seen with Slivers (Leras, Rashek, Vin, Tanavast) is that their Cognitive Shadow can persist after death - their minds will persist. (Again, I don't think we're disagreeing, and the deflated balloon is a good clarification to what I had said.)

I meant that the defining trait for being a Sliver is the power thing. Mind changes are kind of side effect here.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Oversleep

[Pagerunner he/him]

40 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

Most of the terms we use come directly from Brandon. Focus is one of them.

I've seen lowercase-f in Mistborn annotations, and Body Focuses in the Stormlight Ars Arcanum, but I haven't seen Brandon officially refer to capital-F focus before; can you provide a link?

40 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

You're mixing things up here a little. (BTW, I have never seen 'fuel' being used as a separate term)
Burning metal allows for a flow of Investiture from Preservation. Charge in metalminds does not decay. Hemalurgical spikes decay because Hemalurgy is about power loss.
For color on Nalthis and water on Taldain I've seen used term 'catalyst'.
We do not know what is it about frost on Roshar, but we've seen it only when a rapid expulsion of Stormlight occurs. I suspect it has to do with transition of the Realms, similarly to how Blades are wet when summoned.

Agreed, I've never seen 'fuel' used like that before, which is why I provided an alternate answer in case this wasn't what was being referred to, but I'm trying to get to the same concept you describe. Using your terminology, I'd definitely say that metal is the catalyst for Allomancy. For Feruchemy, I was basing it on how repeated uses of a coppermind will degrade the information over time; it seems to me that the act of drawing and storing consumes a little bit of what's stored in the metalmind. And, similarly, it could also be the 'how' behind Hemalurgic decay.

40 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

It's not liquid Investiture that allows access to Cognitive Realm. It's just that a place which naturally collects Shard's Investiture (which is named Shardpool) also transcends Realms and that's why it allows access to the Cognitive Realm.

I don't see any conflict between what you said and what I said. We haven't seen collected solid or gaseous investiture allow worldhopping; it seems like a unique property of the liquid variety.

EDIT: Oh, never mind, I see what you're saying. Are you saying that the location itself is a 'weak point' between realms, and the liquid Investiture being there is just a side effect? I'm not sure I agree with that - remove the liquid (like at the Pits or the Well) and you remove the Perpendicularity. Drive a septic truck up and drain the shardpool, you've got a moving Perpendicularity (and probably the smelliest one, too). I think it's the liquid that bridges realms, not the location itself.

40 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

It's not about the mind, only about power. It's true that person's mind expands when holding a Shard, but the Sliver refers to somebody who held big portions of Shard's Investiture and let go of it. Brandon described it as deflated balloon. Slivers have a little residue Investiture and their minds retain the changes the Intent caused to them (Ati would have destructive tendencies if he had let go of Ruin; Rashek was fixated on status quo etc).

Hold up - you start off by saying it's not about the mind, then say that their minds retain the changes? The pattern that we've seen with Slivers (Leras, Rashek, Vin, Tanavast) is that their Cognitive Shadow can persist after death - their minds will persist. (Again, I don't think we're disagreeing, and the deflated balloon is a good clarification to what I had said.)

40 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

They die only on Physical Realm. Cognitive Shadow still has Spiritual Aspect, although it's ties to Physical Realm have been severed.

Good point - Spiritual Realm is time-independent, so I guess death doesn't mean all that much there. I had second thoughts while posting that, but went with it anyways.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Pagerunner

[Spoolofwhool]

36 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

Hold up - you start off by saying it's not about the mind, then say that their minds retain the changes? The pattern that we've seen with Slivers (Leras, Rashek, Vin, Tanavast) is that their Cognitive Shadow can persist after death - their minds will persist. (Again, I don't think we're disagreeing, and the deflated balloon is a good clarification to what I had said.)

He's saying that slivers aren't people who just had their minds expanded by a large amount of investiture, as you stated, but rather someone who has, in their entirety, been changed by the investiture and its subsequent release. In other words, they are changed physically, cognitively, and spiritually while holding the investiture, and maintain some changes afterwards, not just cognitively which is what your initial statement implies heavily. 

[Pagerunner he/him]

42 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

Um... Not every term is uppercased

But, still, that's the only time he used the word focus to describe magic systems, and it's back in 2006 - he was just generally speaking of how metals tie together the Metallic Arts. He hasn't used it as an official part of the magic fundamentals - it's a popular fan theory, but not an official term.

42 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

Would you mind providing a source for this? I don't remember anything about copperminds degrading from books and coppermind states they do not degrade and my search on theoryland provides no information on this

The source for this is in 15 chapter of WoA where Sazed explicitly states that memories do not degrade in copperminds, only when out of them.

Hmm, I may be misremembering. I'll conditionally recant that proposal, with the possibility of recanting my recantation if I can find the quote. Thanks for keeping me honest.

8 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

He's saying that slivers aren't people who just had their minds expanded by a large amount of investiture, as you stated, but rather someone who has, in their entirety, been changed by the investiture and its subsequent release. In other words, they are changed physically, cognitively, and spiritually while holding the investiture, and maintain some changes afterwards, not just cognitively which is what your initial statement implies heavily. 

We haven't seen physical changes to Slivers (TLR used the power to give himself Allomancy the same way Sazed made Spook a Mistborn) or spiritual changes (don't even know what that would look like). All Investiture expands the mind to allow for use of it (atium lets you process it quickly, Sand Masters can control all their ribbons), but there's a threshold where your mind won't revert to its old state after holding too much Investiture. It is possible to achieve physical changes to your body (Savants, Soulcasters), but those aren't Slivers. So, I won't imply it heavily, I'll explicitly propose it.

[Oversleep]

1 hour ago, Pagerunner said:

But, still, that's the only time he used the word focus to describe magic systems, and it's back in 2006 - he was just generally speaking of how metals tie together the Metallic Arts. He hasn't used it as an official part of the magic fundamentals - it's a popular fan theory, but not an official term.

Well, he used it in the WoB you speak of, he used it in annotations for Warbreaker:

Quote

So during revisions, I changed this. Instead of requiring a lengthy Command to create a powerful Awakening, the strength and skill of the Awakener is instead determined by their ability to visualize what they want the Command to do. The Command is a focus, the spoken words an important part of the process, but the real trick is getting the right mental picture.

and he instantly understands what we mean by focus and doesn't correct us, as seen in those RAFO'd questions. But I agree, I thought it's much more used term. Maybe it's just hard to find, as 'focus' is also a normal, common word and it's hard to search for it properly.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Oversleep

[Spoolofwhool]

3 hours ago, Pagerunner said:

We haven't seen physical changes to Slivers (TLR used the power to give himself Allomancy the same way Sazed made Spook a Mistborn) or spiritual changes (don't even know what that would look like). All Investiture expands the mind to allow for use of it (atium lets you process it quickly, Sand Masters can control all their ribbons), but there's a threshold where your mind won't revert to its old state after holding too much Investiture. It is possible to achieve physical changes to your body (Savants, Soulcasters), but those aren't Slivers. So, I won't imply it heavily, I'll explicitly propose it.

So what you're saying is just because we haven't had physical or spiritual changes described to us as part of a sliver's description, you're assuming that there are none, despite the fact that we have other proof that investiture can cause physical changes and generally usually causes spiritual changes, and that a sliver has probably held magnitudes more investiture than these causes? I can agree that there is a lesser case for physical changes, and any it makes would be slight, but there are most definitely spiritual ones. 

Edited September 22, 2016 by Spoolofwhool

[Argel he/him]

4 hours ago, Pagerunner said:

or Feruchemy, I was basing it on how repeated uses of a coppermind will degrade the information over time; it seems to me that the act of drawing and storing consumes a little bit of what's stored in the metalmind

The problem is the human mind sucks at remembering stuff -- studies show that just recalling a memory will result in small changes to it. Basically, recalling a memory overwrites the memory, but imperfectly. So taking memories out of a coppermind into a human mind guarantees changes will occur. As far as I know we've never seen an example of something stored via Feruchemy degrading.

 

[Pagerunner he/him]

17 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

So what you're saying is just because we haven't had physical or spiritual changes described to us as part of a sliver's description, you're assuming that there are none, despite the fact that we have other proof that investiture can cause physical changes and generally usually causes spiritual changes, and that a sliver has probably held magnitudes more investiture than these causes? I can agree that there is a lesser case for physical changes, and any it makes would be slight, but there are most definitely spiritual ones. 

Can you please define what you mean by 'spiritual changes'?

But, yes, it sounds like you understand what I'm saying - we've seen the effects of becoming a Sliver on the Cognitive aspect of an individual, but have not seen any Physical or Spiritual effects. Since we have seen that Rashek and Vin were left physically unchanged by becoming Slivers, I'd assert pretty strongly that there are no Physical effects. We haven't seen what happened to either of them Spiritually; so, it would be an assertion to say that becoming a Sliver has Spiritual effects on an individual. Not necessarily wrong, but it's where the burden of proof lies. I think it rests on you to show that there are effects on Spiritual properties like Connection or Fortune. (And, since we have seen so little of the Spiritual Realm, that would be a tall order indeed.) Not that it's impossible, but that it's an extrapolation that needs to be supported.

26 minutes ago, Argel said:

The problem is the human mind sucks at remembering stuff -- studies show that just recalling a memory will result in small changes to it. Basically, recalling a memory overwrites the memory, but imperfectly. So taking memories out of a coppermind into a human mind guarantees changes will occur. As far as I know we've never seen an example of something stored via Feruchemy degrading.

Yeah, sounds like you're referring to my memory right now. I thought someone had a conversation with Brandon, that if a Feruchemist pulled a memory out and put it right back in, it would still degrade, with the implication that there was some unknown factor at play. I gotta try and find that quote, if it exists. Seems like I'm experiencing some degradation right now, though. (No, that's not an invitation to insult.)

[Spoolofwhool]

2 hours ago, Pagerunner said:

Can you please define what you mean by 'spiritual changes'?

But, yes, it sounds like you understand what I'm saying - we've seen the effects of becoming a Sliver on the Cognitive aspect of an individual, but have not seen any Physical or Spiritual effects. Since we have seen that Rashek and Vin were left physically unchanged by becoming Slivers, I'd assert pretty strongly that there are no Physical effects. We haven't seen what happened to either of them Spiritually; so, it would be an assertion to say that becoming a Sliver has Spiritual effects on an individual. Not necessarily wrong, but it's where the burden of proof lies. I think it rests on you to show that there are effects on Spiritual properties like Connection or Fortune. (And, since we have seen so little of the Spiritual Realm, that would be a tall order indeed.) Not that it's impossible, but that it's an extrapolation that needs to be supported.

Some sort of changes to the spiritweb. Non-significant ones, but changes, most likely rips or tears, following the balloon analogy, which were not present before the investiture was accessed. Similar to the rips or tears that result in savantism, but like I said, without any noticeable effects. I understand that we haven't seen any described, but I still contend that there are some minor effects on physical and spiritual. I do not have any proof, since as you've said, none has been observed. I just don't think having such a massive amount of investiture in someone would warp only cognitive, but leave spiritual and physical intact, especially since we know lesser amounts of investiture effect those aspects. 

Edit: We even do have a known cases of where just holding somewhat significant amounts of investiture cause physical changes. KRs eyes glow, people with breath affect the colours around them.

2 hours ago, Pagerunner said:

Yeah, sounds like you're referring to my memory right now. I thought someone had a conversation with Brandon, that if a Feruchemist pulled a memory out and put it right back in, it would still degrade, with the implication that there was some unknown factor at play. I gotta try and find that quote, if it exists. Seems like I'm experiencing some degradation right now, though. (No, that's not an invitation to insult.)

It probably would degrade. The act of recalling the tapped memory so you can store it would probably cause a slight change in the memory, even though you're only remembering it for an instant. 

Edited September 22, 2016 by Spoolofwhool

[Argel he/him]

11 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

It probably would degrade. The act of recalling the tapped memory so you can store it would probably cause a slight change in the memory, even though you're only remembering it for an instant. 

Yeah, no matter what, it's being passed through an imperfect medium.  It's like taking a digital audio/video signal, converting it to analog, and then converting it back -- there will be differences, more noticeable the closer you look/listen.

 

I thought the reason Vin died was because holding that much power was too much for her body?

Edited September 22, 2016 by Argel

[Spoolofwhool]

2 hours ago, Argel said:

I thought the reason Vin died was because holding that much power was too much for her body?

I thought the reason she died was because the clash of Ruin's power against Preservation's just was too great a surge for either holder to withstand, so it killed both. The equal powers could only ever achieve a double loss, never one with a victory against the other, and Vin elected to take the double loss.

[Argel he/him]

I thought her body vaporized when she was taking on Preservation's power?

Quote

 

And then, Vin vanished. She left behind the misty outline of a young woman. That dissipated and was soon gone, too....

Sanderson, Brandon. Mistborn Trilogy (Kindle Locations 33149-33150). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

 

And later on Sazed as Harmony tells her he healed their (Elend and her) bodies.

If your body vaporizes while ascending, then I do not see how that cannot be considered a PR change, even if the body can be recreated later on.

[Yata he/him]

28 minutes ago, Argel said:

I thought her body vaporized when she was taking on Preservation's power?

And later on Sazed as Harmony tells her he healed their (Elend and her) bodies.

If your body vaporizes while ascending, then I do not see how that cannot be considered a PR change, even if the body can be recreated later on.

When Someone (Vin included) Ascend the body is vaporized but it's not destroyed in classical sense...It stored somewhere (probably physical merged with the Shard). When you release the Shard (or simply die)...The body will re-spawn again and in the case of a willing release of the Shard it's still alive and usable.

We see this with: Leras, Ati and Vin. Probably also Rashek for some seconds/minutes was bodyless but here we have no direct references

Relevant WoB:

Quote

YADOS

Does Sazed's biological body still exist somewhere? If so, does that body still possess Feruchemical abilities?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes, it does exist, though kind of...blended-in, so to speak, as happened with the others when they ascended. Yes, it still has his abilities, though they are kind of moot now

 

Edited September 22, 2016 by Yata

[The One Who Connects he/him]

1 minute ago, Yata said:

When Someone (Vin included) Ascend the body is vaporized but it's not destroyed in classical sense...It stored somewhere (probably physical merged with the Shard).

I believe that at some point Brandon said that the body is in the Spiritual Realm. I only slightly remember the context of the question: something about where Sazed's body is now. I shall search for this in the meantime

[Yata he/him]

20 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

I believe that at some point Brandon said that the body is in the Spiritual Realm. I only slightly remember the context of the question: something about where Sazed's body is now. I shall search for this in the meantime

maybe the one I already posted. I edited my post to add a reference

[The One Who Connects he/him]

Just now, Yata said:

maybe the one I already posted. I edited my post to add a reference

Yea that's the one. Guess I misremembered it

[Pagerunner he/him]

1 hour ago, Argel said:

If your body vaporizes while ascending, then I do not see how that cannot be considered a PR change, even if the body can be recreated later on.

I think we switched from talking about Slivers to talking about Vessels at some point.

Also, @Tsidqiyah, do you see what you have unleashed? You thought it was a simple question, "Can someone give me a brief overview?" See how that's turning out...

[Argel he/him]

Well, when you are a vessel and give it up, you become a sliver. My point was that something does happen to the physical body when the ascension occurs, so I do not think we can assume there is zero change in the PR.

[Tsidqiyah he/him]

@Pagerunner I am deeply apologetic... wait no i am not. i asked the question because i am trying to build theory on central laws that will explain how to hack the magic from one world to work in another amond other things. I think this discussion is giving me the tools i need. So thank you everybody for the insights and thoughts.