Moelach a Traitor and Eshonai a Bondsmith?

[+hwiles]

Sounds crazy, I know, but hear me out.

From the Diagram, Book of the Second Desk Drawer:

Quote

"The Unmade are a deviation, a flair, a conundrum that may not be worth your time. You cannot help but think of them. They are fascinating. Many are mindless. Like the spren of human emotions, only much more nasty. I do believe a few can think, however." 

-Paragraph 14-

 

2

 

Quote

"There is one you will watch. Though all of them have some relevance to precognition, Moelach is one of the most powerful in this regard. His touch seeps into a soul as it breaks apart from the body, creating manifestations powered by the spark of death itself. But no, this is a distraction. Deviation. Kingship. We must discuss the nature of kingship."

-Paragraph 15-

 

1

 

Quote

"One is almost certainly a traitor to the others."

-Paragraph 27-

 

 

This is sort of speculative considering we only have 3 short exerts from the book, but it sounds like the Book of the 2nd Desk Drawer might be largely devoted to discussing the Unmade.  Mr. T recognizes they might not be worth his time, but he can't help but obsess over them, even building "hospitals" to harvest death rattles from homeless people, drifters, and the terminally ill (as well as others...)  If that's true, then the phrase: "One is almost certainly a traitor to the others," would most likely be referring to one of the Unmade.  We know that Moelach is, in some capacity, intelligent and appears to have been deliberately helping Taravangian augment the Diagram with death rattles.  For the record, I suspect that the Death Rattles are what tipped the Diagramists off that a Desolation was coming and that they needed to start getting ready in the first place since they don't appear to be Cosmere aware (speculation).  I theorize then that Moelach, a Splinter of Odium, has turned on its creator and fellow Unmade (it is made from the power of hatred after all, so loyalty was probably never a virtue), and has decided to aid humanity.  What could be its motivation for this betrayal you ask?  Well, it probably found out that Odium was planning on reabsorbing it and leaving Roshar if he succeeds in killing Cultivation.  This would make it a good candidate as a Godspren for a Bondsmith to join with (the others being the Stormfather, and possibly the Nightwatcher).  (ASIDE: We don't technically know that Cultivation is alive, there have only been hints so far as I'm aware)

Parshendi can bond voidspren pretty easily I hear, but I believe it's been stated by Sanderson that they would have a pretty hard time bonding a normal highspren (radiant-spren).  Conversely, a human would have a very difficult time bonding a voidspren, even if they were really evil.  Back in the day (before the Recreance) there were 3 Bondsmiths.  It's often speculated that they each bonded a different Godspren, and two obvious choices are the Nightwatcher (a spren related to cultivation in an as-yet unrevealed way) and the Stormfather (a spren of Honor who has merged with Honor's cognitive shadow).  I think it makes an elegant sort of sense for the third Godspren to be of Odium.  Enter: Moelach.

Eshonai is going to be a viewpoint character so I'm assuming she'll break free of her enslavement by Odium at some point, otherwise, why point out so heavily that she is possessed (and not just evil) and that her real personality is both alive and watching in (seemingly) helpless horror?  What better way for her to break free than by forcing the spren possessing her out by bonding a more powerful spren?  One that she wouldn't have a difficult time bonding (voidspren) and who appears to desperately want to resist Odium out of self-preservation.  She is a natural and compassionate leader of her people and possesses, in my understanding, many of the qualities that allowed Dalinar to become a Bondsmith.  What better general for the remnants of the Parshendi (and maybe Parshmen) who either have, or will, avoid being possessed by voidspren?  Note, she's not slated to have a book dedicated to her for a good long while yet, so...you know...get settled in because I don't think she's going to be breaking her chains for a few years.

In summary, my theory boils down to:

1.  Moelach is helping humanity because he (she?) knows Odium is going to throw him away like a used tissue once their business on Roshar is concluded, ie: Moelach wants to splinter Odium.  (think rogue AI trying to kill its creator to keep them from unplugging it, ie: classic sci-fi)

2.  Moelach would be a good candidate for a Godspren capable of making a Bondsmith, but he would have to bond a Parshendi (or Parshmen I guess...)

3.  Eshonai is a high-profile Parshendi view-point character, who exhibits a similar temperament and moral code to Dalinar (a known Bondsmith), is probably going to need to break free of Odium's enslavement over the course of her story-arc, and is (was?) a natural and beloved leader and military strategist.

4.  Eshonai will be a Bondsmith with Moelach's help and lead the remnants of the Parshendi race that, somehow, avoid being possessed by voidspren.  (maybe they wrap themselves in aluminum foil and stay indoors during highstorms?)

That's all folks!  Thoughts?  Criticisms?  Critiques?  I've been told my writing can occasionally come off as cumbersome/confusing, so, for a limited time, we're also accepting general stylistic commentary and (constructive) feedback. 

Edited September 24, 2016 by hwiles

[1stBondsmith he/him]

I like you first premise a great deal. I had not put together the paragraphs before, and it fascinates me. (have and upvote!).

The second point makes a big assumption that a Voidspren was bonded to Radiants. Wow! that would be a big jump in my opinion. I know that three shards would like to have three highspren for symmetry, but there are many unmade, and that blows the one each theory. Also, though they may now be under Odium's control, a WoB said that they were there before Odium, and I think before the other two shards (not sure about the last part). Finally Honor is dead, but his highspren remains. Is Cultivaion limited to one as a live shard?

I Like the Eshoni bonding idea. Could be great with Moelach.

Finally, I think that the Parshendi will eventually break free and fight Oduim, but this will be at the end of the series. It was somewhat alluded to in their songs, about what would happen if they were no longer overlooked by their Gods (plural). Who better to lead than Eshoni. BUT, I do not think she becomes a Bondsmith to do so. Not a radiant, but bonded in the Listener way. Perhaps Moelach does not take over, but simply guides? Who knows!

Edited September 15, 2016 by 1stBondsmith
typos

[Yata he/him]

I like this theory....but some points are impossible.

Your idea of an Unmade powered Bondsmith is fascinating, really. But your premise is it would need a Listener to made this third Bondsmith and we know for multiple WoB that in the past Listeners are not allowed to become KR and past people would think it's impossible for a Listener to become a Radiant (it's meaningless if is actual impossible, if the people think in this way. the true is "it's never happened.

Another "small point"...the Listener have an "easy way" to merge with a Spren and (probably) "hard way" to bond with one but this is probably the same whatever the Spren's source is

[The One Who Connects he/him]

16 minutes ago, 1stBondsmith said:

I know that three shards would like to have three highspren for symmetry, but there are many unmade, and that blows the one each theory.

Quote

But as for the Bondsmiths, they had members only three, which number was not uncommon for them; nor did they seek to increase this by great bounds, for during the times of Madasa, only one of their order was in continual accompaniment of Urithiru and its thrones. Their spren was understood to be specific, and to persuade them to grow to the magnitude of the other orders was seen as seditious.   —Words of Radiance, chapter 16, page 14

I wouldn't put it past something Odium-esque to not care about sedition.

16 minutes ago, 1stBondsmith said:

Also, though they may now be under Odium's control, a WoB said that they were there before Odium, and I think before the other two shards (not sure about the last part).

I would both like to see this, and know who this "they" are. The Unmade are splinters of Odium, meaning that logically they shouldn't be there before Odium, and definitely not before H&C. (Edit: oh wait, you mean the Parshendi. I don't know why would be an issue to the theory though)

16 minutes ago, 1stBondsmith said:

Finally Honor is dead, but his highspren remains. Is Cultivaion limited to one as a live shard?

I cannot find a direct statement, but the Stormfather is a cognitive shadow. We basically assumed that he is Tanavast's. So that "kinda keeps" Honor there, enough for his spren to remain. Ignore how broken that statement is...

Edited September 15, 2016 by The One Who Connects

[1stBondsmith he/him]

4 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

I would both like to see this, and know who this "they" are. The Unmade are splinters of Odium, meaning that logically they shouldn't be there before Odium, and definitely not before H&C.

Many splinters were there before the shards made them. These are the Unmade, as the shards did not make them. I will try to search for the quote later. They may be splinters now, but they were not always.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

Just now, 1stBondsmith said:

Many splinters were there before the shards made them. These are the Unmade, as the shards did not make them. I will try to search for the quote later. They may be splinters now, but they were not always.

I.. oh. This throws a loop into my understanding. Now I'm curious.
At first, I thought you might've meant the Parshendi, but with this...

[Yata he/him]

Probably you talk about "some spren were on roshar before H&C's arrive" reference.

If this is the one, the  referenced Spren are adonalsium's spren...to have a Splinter of X for its own definition the Shard X's power have to be used willing or not willing (a Shard may Splinter itself or be forceful Splintered by other Shards)

Edited September 15, 2016 by Yata

[Pagerunner he/him]

Cultivation is alive.

The Unmade are voluntary splinters of Odium. Collectively, they fill the role of Stormfather for Honor, and Nightwatcher for Cultivation. (Stormfather is special among them, since he absorbed Tanavast's cognitive shadow.)

Also, you're not the first to suggest bonding an Unmade, though I think you may be the first to tie them to the Bondsmiths. Based on Brandon's surprised response, I don't think he is planning on using an Unmade to fill a Bondsmith role, but props for a well-considered theory. I definitely agree that an Unmade could be used for a Bondsmith; just not that the specific turn of events you outlined is likely.

[BeskarKomrk he/him]

I like this theory a lot, and I'll have to give some thought to how it might tie into another theory I have. I do have a few other comments though.

Are you suggesting that the third Bondsmith in the past (who was presumably non-Parshendi) was also bonded to Moelach? Or are you theorizing that this is a new development with Eshonai?

I don't entirely agree with the premise that this section of the Diagram is about the Unmade, as he specifically ends Paragraph 15 by saying the Unmade are a distraction and he needs to discuss kingship.

[PallonianFire he/him]

 

8 minutes ago, 1stBondsmith said:

Many splinters were there before the shards made them. These are the Unmade, as the shards did not make them. I will try to search for the quote later. They may be splinters now, but they were not always.

This definitely isn't right. Brandon talked about the Unmade as godspren-level splinters of Odium at JordanCon this spring, comparing them to the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher.

There were spren there before the arrival of H/C, but those are not the Unmade.

[Argel he/him]

The Death Rattles started before Gavilar was even assassinated (around the time Gavilar started investigating the shattered plains), so Moelach could not have started out trying to help Taravangian.  And he moves away from Taravangian near the end of WoR. Maybe trying to help hummany in general or something like that but I think we need more evidence to say Moelach is specifically helping Taravangian.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Argel

[Yata he/him]

Argenl's post made me remember something.

We know (via WoB) that Death Rattles and The Thrill start around the same time but with different influenced areas. The Thrill isn't something of the last years...It's so old to be a integrated (and unspoken) part of Alethi's society, this mean that also Death Rattle is a really ancient phenomen (also if we don't actually know where you may feel its effect befor Gavilar's expedition)

[+hwiles]

@Yata True, we have good indications that a Listener has never before been a Radiant, I can't really argue with your logic.  How do you feel about the following alterations?

57 minutes ago, hwiles said:

1.  Moelach is helping humanity because he (she?) knows Odium is going to throw him away like a used tissue once their business on Roshar is concluded, ie: Moelach wants to splinter Odium.  (think rogue AI trying to kill its creator to keep them from unplugging it, ie: classic sci-fi)

2.  Moelach would be a good candidate for a Godspren capable of making a Bondsmith, but he would have to bond a Parshendi (or Parshmen I guess...)

3.  Eshonai is a high-profile Parshendi view-point character, who exhibits a similar temperament and moral code to Dalinar (a known Bondsmith), is probably going to need to break free of Odium's enslavement over the course of her story-arc, and is (was?) a natural and beloved leader and military strategist.

4.  Eshonai will be a Bondsmith with Moelach's help bond Moelach and lead the remnants of the Parshendi race that, somehow, avoid being possessed by voidspren.  (maybe they wrap themselves in aluminum foil and stay indoors during highstorms?)

 

To clarify, I still think it's technically possible that Eshonai could bond Moelach and become a Bondsmith; however, it doesn't seem like there could've been a Parshendi Radiant at the time of the Recreance, and since humans would have an impossibly difficult time bonding a voidspren, it's highly unlikely that Moelach was bonded to one of the three Bondsmiths leading up to the Recreance...

The heart of my theory, the idea that Moelach is the traitor identified in the Diagram, remains intact however.

@BeskarKomrk I freely admit that it's speculative to suppose that the entire Book of the Second Drawer is about the Unmade.  However...one of the exerts we have states: "You cannot help but think of them."  Mr. T was pretty smart while writing the Diagram.  He seemed to anticipate the fact that his followers (and he himself) would get hung up on the Unmade (see: harvesting homeless people for Death Rattles).  I'd think it logical that he would at least try to give them enough information to guide how and when they get hung up.  I wouldn't discount it.  I think it's obvious Sanderson intentionally specified that these three quotes are from the same book (a book in a religious text is usually loosely based on a single more-or-less encompassing idea), rather than making them from something like the "Book of the Ugly Lampshade," or "Psalms Shaved into a Nearby Cat" (I know they don't have cats on Roshar, it's a joke ).  This could be a brilliant red herring, he's known to throw them at us, but I'd give it even odds, at least until we have another quote from that darn drawer.  In the infinite possibilities open when decided what part of the Diagram these quotes came from, Sanderson deliberately placed them almost adjacent to eachother.  He didn't have to, even if my theory was right he could have placed the quotes in different books and still have gotten away with calling it legitimate foreshadowing; he chose to identify that they're from the same book though, which I think is significant (even if it turns out to be a false trail...)

@PallonianFire Thanks for the quick fact-checking assist.

@Argel Moelach produces Death Rattles on the Shattered Plains while almost simultaneously producing Death Rattles in Kharbranth.  Yeah, he moves around, but he appears to do it pretty quickly.  Mr. T speculates that Moelach has moved west, and honestly, he's probably right since there don't seem to be many Death Rattles in the East, but that doesn't really have anything to do with my theory.  The Death Rattles did start before Gavilar's assassination, correct.  Moelach was trying to warn people of the coming desolation I think; this isn't really a main component of my theory, more like a speculative add-on.  Maybe he was trying to help the Diagramists before it was cool, maybe he was just stabbing in the dark, agreed, we don't know enough to say, though I don't think it's particularly important; I mostly meant it as an additional argument to show that helping people is in Moelach's best interests.

[Argel he/him]

8 minutes ago, hwiles said:

Maybe he was trying to help the Diagramists before it was cool

My main point was the death rattles started before The Diagram was created (which was after Gavilar's assassination, likely within 3 years of that), so no direct correlation, at least not to start out with.

Didn't we see a some of the Unmade moving into the shattered plains in WoR (maybe when Shallan and Kaladin were in the chasms)?

[Savanorn he/him]

I more or less agree with Beskar, I presumed the "one is a traitor to the others" to refer to orders of Radiants or Heralds, as this sentence appears twelve paragraphs later and Vargo has chastised himself for becoming distracted at the end of paragraph 15.

To expand, while it is possible they are grouped by theme, it would seem to me more likely the Diagram would group them by object they found them on. 

I mean, in the absence of this forum or WoB, a diligent reader might only have the material in the books to go off, and generally Brandon is good at giving enough for future guesses and this is what P27 is likely to be for me. The sort of thing where a reader might go "one what? A Highprince, an order...a Herald?"

 

[Oversleep]

Why is everyone assuming that bonding Unmade is gonna result in Bondsmith (as in Knight Radiant Bondsmith)?

Voidbringers have the same Surge groupings, so there are bound to be forms of power with access to Adhesion and Tension. So perhaps those forms of power utilise Unmade; no need for them to be actual Bondsmiths, just Voidbringer counterpart.

[Yata he/him]

4 hours ago, Oversleep said:

Why is everyone assuming that bonding Unmade is gonna result in Bondsmith (as in Knight Radiant Bondsmith)?

Voidbringers have the same Surge groupings, so there are bound to be forms of power with access to Adhesion and Tension. So perhaps those forms of power utilise Unmade; no need for them to be actual Bondsmiths, just Voidbringer counterpart.

I don't deny the possibility of a Unmade-Bondsmith because I think it's what happened with Stormfather and (maybe) Nightwatcher...the recruitment of Spren outside H&C with some kind of corruption/adjustment made by our Shards

example: Honor gave a bit of his Investiture to the Adonalsium Spren knowed as Rider of the Storm to made him compatible with Surgebinding and the same Cultivation with her "godspren" (may be the Nightwatcher or another spren)

Of course it's my view about the Bondsmith's spren...it's not canon or something like that (I wrote this because I don't want to influence new Sharder)

Edited September 16, 2016 by Yata

[+hwiles]

@Yata that's basically the way I was looking at it.  If the Nightwatcher can create a bondsmith (which hasn't been confirmed yet) then why not Moelach.

[goody153]

Tbh if Eshonai becomes a KR he'd become a Willshaper due to the explanation of her wanting to explore and stuff(create maps, hike and stuff) before she became a general due to responsibilities which is one of the noted attributes of Willshapers being inconsistent, unreliable and love for adventure. She fits both adventurous and unreliable(being now a spawn of Odium).

But i like this theory too her becoming another Bondsmith (uniting people and stuff) but i feel like Mr. Sanderson wouldn't give the same Radiant Order to two important pov characters(characters who's gonna have their own books)

[+hwiles]

2 hours ago, goody153 said:

Tbh if Eshonai becomes a KR he'd become a Willshaper due to the explanation of her wanting to explore and stuff(create maps, hike and stuff) before she became a general due to responsibilities which is one of the noted attributes of Willshapers being inconsistent, unreliable and love for adventure. She fits both adventurous and unreliable(being now a spawn of Odium).

But i like this theory too her becoming another Bondsmith (uniting people and stuff) but i feel like Mr. Sanderson wouldn't give the same Radiant Order to two important pov characters(characters who's gonna have their own books)

I don't think it would be particularly outrageous for Eshonai to end up as a Bondsmith just because Dalinar already is one (though there are other reasons...)  There are many orders of the KR we haven't seen yet; it's possible, maybe even likely, that all of them won't even be introduced before the end of book five.  In six Mistborn novels we still haven't seen a Feruchemist store and draw luck or sustenance on screen, but we've seen literally dozens of coinshots.  Sanderson is by no means afraid to cast multiple, or even many, characters with the same powers in favor of introducing new magic systems if he decides it fits the story better.

Also, Eshonai's book is supposed to be book 5 I think; which would put her pov chapters just leading up to whatever the ultimate conclusion to the first 5 stormlight archive books is.  If she becomes a Radiant, or bonds an Unmade, or finds the strength of will to break Odium's control (I'm looking at you Ironeyes...) I assume it'll be at a pivotal moment near the middle or end of Book 5.  Until then she'll probably continue being an evil sociopath (I'm looking at you again Ironeyes...)

[goody153]

10 hours ago, hwiles said:

I don't think it would be particularly outrageous for Eshonai to end up as a Bondsmith just because Dalinar already is one (though there are other reasons...)  There are many orders of the KR we haven't seen yet; it's possible, maybe even likely, that all of them won't even be introduced before the end of book five.  In six Mistborn novels we still haven't seen a Feruchemist store and draw luck or sustenance on screen, but we've seen literally dozens of coinshots.  Sanderson is by no means afraid to cast multiple, or even many, characters with the same powers in favor of introducing new magic systems if he decides it fits the story better.

Also, Eshonai's book is supposed to be book 5 I think; which would put her pov chapters just leading up to whatever the ultimate conclusion to the first 5 stormlight archive books is.  If she becomes a Radiant, or bonds an Unmade, or finds the strength of will to break Odium's control (I'm looking at you Ironeyes...) I assume it'll be at a pivotal moment near the middle or end of Book 5.  Until then she'll probably continue being an evil sociopath (I'm looking at you again Ironeyes...)

I mean i don't think it's impossible but it's unlikely after all Sanderson already said it's 1 Radiant Order per book as a focus and since Eshonai is getting her own flashbacks and stuff it probably means she's one of the Radiant Orders. Of course i also SA is bound to get other Knight Radiants(like more windrunners etc) but i suspect they won't get like the focus that Shallan, Kaladin and Dalinar(is about to get) or following of the story.

Yeah she's definetely the Ironeyes of the series but a bit different since unlike Ironeyes she doesn't seem to be forcefully controlled but rather her personality is changed.

[marianmi]

i think the diagram says to watch moelach => taravangian records the death rattles

"One is almost certainly a traitor to the others. => there will be a traitor KR, a traitor parshman, or a traitor bridgeman. Do we have paragraph 26 or 28 for context?

[+hwiles]

The only quotes we have from the Book of the Second Desk Drawer are in the original post; we haven't been given paragraph 27 or 28 yet.

My theory is basically centered on the idea that Moelach appears to be deliberately helping the Diagramists, mr. T knows Moelach is an Unmade, and he also has some inkling that the Unmade, in general, don't have humanity's best interests in mind.  Was trying to highlight the apparent disparity between Moelach's actions and Odium's intentions.  It would strike me as odd if mr. T, knowing the Unmade are fighting against humanity, chose to listen to one and follow its guidance.  Unless of course he had some reason to believe that this particular Unmade had switched sides, then it would make perfect sense.

[Krandacth]

An alternative view is that Moelach is knowingly corrupting the Diagram. We know from the Taravangian interlude that the death rattles are the primary way that they augment the Diagram, even though the Diagram itself says that they should not be a focus. So, if Moelach can be selective with the rattles, then he could be introducing notions that further Odium's goals rather than aiding humanity. Just because Taravangian chooses to make use of the rattles, potentially thinking that because they are guaranteed accurate foretellings he can use them *despite* their source, doesn't mean they are a positive influence.

However, we have no way to know either way at the moment. I like the possibility of the OP theory, even if I wouldn't put money on it being true

Edited September 24, 2016 by Krandacth

[Argel he/him]

What if Odium needs at least some humans to survive the next desolation (e.g. in order to gain his freedom)? Or maybe he's obligated to send warnings? Dang, we still know so little!!