Nuclear Proliferation and Shardblades

[PantsForSquares he/him]

9 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

In which case I wonder why they would bother taking a shardblade as well. Seems like a fair assumption that if they took shardblades from Roshar they would use them. That in turn would spawn stories. Since there are no stories or mentions, and they likely, as you say, have methods of defending other than using a shardblade, why bother going through the effort of taking a shardblade in the first place? It wouldn't be easy to get one.

There would definitely be some use for a Shardblade (cutting through almost anything is an incredibly useful perk), but using a dead Shardblade is going to be a trump card of sorts - only used if drawing a six-foot sword is of absolute importance and there's no other way to settle things. A Worldhopping Radiant might* get more mileage out of their Shardblade, since they can adjust its size to be smaller, but the glowing might still make it obvious.

*Ultimately, it depends on how a living Rosharan Shardblade functions on another Shardworld. If they function exactly the same, then it's got its uses in other worlds.

[Yata he/him]

5 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

True, but if they were really out there they we would've probably heard some explicit mention of them. I don't think stories of people carry 6 foot magical swords or tons of bodies with burnt eyes and no visible wound could remain hidden that well.

Actually is pretty simple to hide the outcome of Shardblade use...you may burn the body, remove their eyes, simply cuts then once dead to simulate mundane wounds, put them underground...pretty all the trick used in the real world to hide a homicide and some other specific may work

As far as we see, Worldhoppers try to not expose the Cosmere's knowledge in the planet without this knowedge....I really doubt they try to use something "alien" without take some precautions.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Yata

[Sarevok]

On 15-9-2016 at 4:31 AM, PantsForSquares said:

A Worldhopping Radiant might* get more mileage out of their Shardblade, since they can adjust its size to be smaller, but the glowing might still make it obvious.

If a Radiant's sprenblade can change size and form, is there any reason to believe it couldn't make itself stop glowing?

[Spoolofwhool]

On 9/15/2016 at 3:36 AM, Yata said:

Actually is pretty simple to hide the outcome of Shardblade use...you may burn the body, remove their eyes, simply cuts then once dead to simulate mundane wounds, put them underground...pretty all the trick used in the real world to hide a homicide and some other specific may work

As far as we see, Worldhoppers try to not expose the Cosmere's knowledge in the planet without this knowedge....I really doubt they try to use something "alien" without take some precautions.

Mhm, true enough. Still, the efficiency of the process is really low. If you have the resources to steal a shardblade and then completely conceal any strangeness about how the people it was used against dies, then you probably could apply the resources towards a more conventional method of defending yourself or killing people, which would require a lot less cleanup. Unless you're planning to fight an army by yourself, or invade the Palace of Gods by going through the lifeless army, there isn't a task which would absolutely require a shardblade, and which could be accomplished using something less flashy, and cleanup-requiring. 

On the other hand, a worldhopper may have a shardblade but isn't using it, and is instead hanging it on his wall or something. With a plaque "Rosharan Shardblade. Obtained under the guise of Highlord NoOneCares."

[Ari he/him]

On 15/09/2016 at 7:11 AM, PallonianFire said:

Possibly. Nightblood, however, cannot change his shape (that we know of), so why would she be asking for "tools?" What craftsman uses a sword as a tool?

It could also be related to what Sazed is doing with that extra piece of Ruin. Historically Scadrial hasn't had a large amount of ambient investiture running around and thus hasn't had to contend with Splinters like Sel and Roshar have. But it's possible that theare are some splinters of Ruin running around on Scadrial. Maybe. If Sazed judged it to be the most prudent option of what to do with his excess Ruin power.

It's also possible they're looking for a worldhopping Awakener of a similar calibre to Vasher.

[cometaryorbit]

On 9/14/2016 at 11:06 AM, Quiver said:

Or; why are the Shard and Honorblades confined to Roshar?

Granted, this might just be because we haven't seen them off-world yet... but I can't help but think that Shardblades and Honorblades are sort of obscenly powerful. I mean, sure, if a normal sword hits you in any of the places a Shardblade does, it's going to cause serious damage... but Shardblades have the added bonus of being able to cut through anything, and being very difficult to block.

So... how is it that they don't appear to have left Roshar? Is it possible there are worldhopper shardbearers foating around, and we just haven't seen them yet? Or could it be a case of the various, Cosmere-aware powers agreeing that Shardblades are too destructive to be taken off Roshar (a world which, frankly, even it's inhabitants have written off as somewhat apocalyptic) and imported to worlds which are in less danger. 

Honestly, Shardblades by themselves, while very powerful at what they do, are also very limited.

They are superweapons in close combat, but the Shardbearer has to survive to get into close combat. A gun, Steel Allomancy coins, an Aon Daa power blast, etc. trump a Shardblade.

It'd be more effective on Nalthis or the Rose Empire/MaiPon area of Sel where the local magic isn't so combative. First of the Sun is low-magic, but seems to have the tech for good ranged weapons.

It'd be awesome on Threnody, though, since Shardblades kill bloodlessly and thus wouldn't anger shades.

Honorblades give Surgebinding, but it requires tons of Stormlight... so off Roshar, it's no different than a normal Shardblade unless you have some really special power-source (mist-burning on Scadrial, a massive store of Breath on Nalthis) and the knowledge to 'hack' the system.

You need either Shardplate or Surgebinding plus access to lots of Stormlight to really be a super-warrior.

[Yata he/him]

1 hour ago, cometaryorbit said:

It'd be awesome on Threnody, though, since Shardblades kill bloodlessly and thus wouldn't anger shades.

Maybe they are also capable of killing a Shade....just to say, A single Shardbearer with time and skill may give safeness to the Forests of Hell

[cometaryorbit]

Wow- that's a very interesting thought. Didn't occur to me, but since Shardblades cut the soul... hm. Might work.

Could you kill an "only slightly Physically present" (visible, but not Nahel-bonded) spren on Roshar with a Blade? If so, it should work.

Another possibility is that it might technically work but not really do much. Depends on if the Blade damages the Spiritual aspect directly (which should work) or instead relies on separating Spiritual from Physical (might not do much to a being that doesn't have a proper Physical aspect).

Nightblood destroys on all three Realms, so he should definitely kill Shades. Maybe even consume them - are Shades invested?

[Yata he/him]

1 hour ago, cometaryorbit said:

Nightblood destroys on all three Realms, so he should definitely kill Shades. Maybe even consume them - are Shades invested?

Shades are only weird Cognitive Shadow...I think Nightblood may consume them and as I said before a Shardblade maybe may cut them

[Jondesu he/him]

8 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

They are superweapons in close combat, but the Shardbearer has to survive to get into close combat. A gun, Steel Allomancy coins, an Aon Daa power blast, etc. trump a Shardblade.

I'll note that this has been discussed before, and guns and coins wouldn't do much against Shardplate, except perhaps with extremely well aimed coordinated fire.  IIRC, Brandon and/or Isaac has even confirmed that a bullet wouldn't do much more than cause small cracks, and coins would likely impart even less damage.  The speed and agility granted by Shardplate would make that even less likely to work, too.  Not sure about the Aon Daa blast, though, that may have an extremely effective impact, or it might be somewhat counteracted by the Shardplate (since it's also invested).  Perhaps Living Shardplate would be better at resisting it than Dead Shardplate, though as yet we don't really know.

jW

[The One Who Connects he/him]

39 minutes ago, Jondesu said:

I'll note that this has been discussed before, and guns and coins wouldn't do much against Shardplate, except perhaps with extremely well aimed coordinated fire.  IIRC, Brandon and/or Isaac has even confirmed that a bullet wouldn't do much more than cause small cracks, and coins would likely impart even less damage. 

This is all true, but you can't exactly hide/sneak away in a set of Shardplate. There would almost definitely be stories about a great armored figure with an ethereal blade. Although, Plate with a more conventional weapon like Jakamav's Hammer and a Shardblade un-summoned for emergencies could spread misleading legends.. hmm

Actually, we're both blind. The post you quoted was talking about Shardblades by themselves.

[Jondesu he/him]

8 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

This is all true, but you can't exactly hide/sneak away in a set of Shardplate. There would almost definitely be stories about a great armored figure with an ethereal blade. Although, Plate with a more conventional weapon like Jakamav's Hammer and a Shardblade un-summoned for emergencies could spread misleading legends.. hmm

Actually, we're both blind. The post you quoted was talking about Shardblades by themselves.

I just saw Shardbearer. Without Plate, yeah, they'd be vulnerable from a distance (since we're not talking Radiants, just people with dead Shardblades).

Not sure how relevant sneaking away is. Shardbearers don't usually try to be sneaky.

jW

Edited September 28, 2016 by Jondesu

[The One Who Connects he/him]

2 hours ago, Jondesu said:

Not sure how relevant sneaking away is. Shardbearers don't usually try to be sneaky.

I more meant it in the context of how we haven't seen/heard about something like a Shardbearer off Roshar

[cometaryorbit]

13 hours ago, Jondesu said:

I'll note that this has been discussed before, and guns and coins wouldn't do much against Shardplate, except perhaps with extremely well aimed coordinated fire.  IIRC, Brandon and/or Isaac has even confirmed that a bullet wouldn't do much more than cause small cracks, and coins would likely impart even less damage. 

I was indeed talking about Shardblades by themselves (since that's what the OP seemed to be talking about), but Shardplate's an interesting question too.
Could you by any chance find the source of the comment about bullets not working? Would be nice to know if it gave any more detail about what kind of gun. I agree normal bullets from, say, Wax's revolver wouldn't do much -  but something like a shotgun with Ranette's Thug-killing ammo or an elephant gun might be quite a different matter.

14 hours ago, Jondesu said:

.  The speed and agility granted by Shardplate would make that even less likely to work, too.  Not sure about the Aon Daa blast, though, that may have an extremely effective impact, or it might be somewhat counteracted by the Shardplate (since it's also invested).  Perhaps Living Shardplate would be better at resisting it than Dead Shardplate, though as yet we don't really know.

jW

I don't think the speed/agility of Shardplate are anywhere near enough to help dodge bullets. I guess if you were constantly leaping around, you'd be hard to target, but Full Shardbearer fighting styles seem more "tank-like" and less "swashbuckling".

Shardplate protects against Voidbringer red lightning, IIRC, so it should probably protect against other Investiture blasts. I don't know where the cut-off is ... Voidbringer red lightning seems distinct from natural lightning, and Aon Daa is essentially "pure magic/energy"; but would fire conjured by Aon Ehe be treated as hostile Investiture or as normal fire?