Thoughts on Vasher in Roshar

[Yata]

20 minutes ago, Jondesu said:

I think the biggest flaw in Awakening with Stormlight is that Stormlight doesn't carry a piece of your Cognitive, or its own Cognitive aspect, like Breath seems to. There's no inherent way to send a Command to an Awakened object with it, so there would need to be more of a hack involved simply to do that, beyond the fact that it's not sticky and leaks out.

jW

Actually Stormlight seems to be able to carry Cognitive piece...It's the difference in the effect you create for example with grow or regrow effect of the Progression Surge.

And today we have a new WoB who said that Breath would be an easy fuel for surgebinding (but it's the exactly opposite problem)

Quote

Q:You mentioned in the last couple of (I don't understand the word but from the context He talk about Ars Arcanum where Khriss talk about what we call "perks") that you get interesting results when you mix type of investitures.
A: yes
Q: Can you mix a form of magic with a source of investiture ? Vasher uses stormlight replacing Breath or that requires (word I don't understand) like Hemalurgy or something like that ?
A: Most of them required (again the word I don't understand). Some of them are little bit easier than others. It's depends on really what you need. For istance, white sand can be charged in the presence of any Investiture right? But it's not really using the magic, is just charging it with other Investiture but you know it would be very easy for istance to use Breath to fuel...Windrunning right? Because the oath and the bond and things like that make it pretty easy. However fueling Allomancy with something else is going to be a lot harder. So it really depends on the magic. It's the sort of thing that there will be lots of science in the books dedicated to making happen in the future and you will find some of the process these work easiser than other ones.

source

Edited September 4, 2016 by Yata

[Darkness]

2 hours ago, Yata said:

Actually Stormlight seems to be able to carry Cognitive piece...It's the difference in the effect you create for example with grow or regrow effect of the Progression Surge.

And today we have a new WoB who said that Breath would be an easy fuel for surgebinding (but it's the exactly opposite problem)

source

Just throwing this in here because...

 

KURKISTAN

BioChroma:

Do Breaths inherently possess the ability to interpret and carry out commands, or does the Awakener need to impart that decision making ability on Awakened objects?

If the Awakener does need to impart the decision-making ability, then does Awakening consist of an Awakener copying a portion of his/her Cognitive aspect (as determined by his/her visualization and verbal Command) onto the Cognitiveaspect of the object being Awakened, with Breath then providing the "juice" for the object to actually follow its Command: powering both physical motion and "cogitation" based upon the copied Cognitive aspect?

-If so, is that copying what drains color?

BRANDON SANDERSON

You're very close here.

This was back in 2012 though, so maybe we have something more specific by now than 'very close'...

[Spoolofwhool]

6 hours ago, Darkness Ascendant said:

That doesn't make too much of a difference. A)They leak alot slower b ) every highstorm they would get infused again. The Weepings would be the only problem, and even then, it would depend on the amount of crystal used. Stormlight in this case would be no diffirent for ichor alcohol as far as Lifeless are concerned

Except for the part where an awakened object requires a certain amount of breath/stormlight to function at the specific level. As the stormlight leaks out, I imagine it would  just cease to be awakened once it dropped below a threshold. This is assuming you manage to put more than the minimum required for awakening. In any case, if we're using stormlight as a substitute for breath, so how do you get the analogy that it is like ichor alcohol in lifeless and not breath in lifeless?

 

Edited September 4, 2016 by Spoolofwhool

[Eki]

On 2016-09-02 at 4:05 PM, nervousnerd said:

Forgive my possibly confused timelines but so a couple of hundred years before WoK, Vasher saw a Shardblade and used it as a basis for Nightblood. I assume this would be a living spren shardblade in order for that to work, no? There were no living shardblades on Roshar (that we know of anyway, 9/10) since the Recreance. Did a Radiant visit Nalthis? That could be an interesting way for Vasher to have learned about worldhopping.

I think we don't know if it was Vasher who saw the Shardblade. It's likely since he has visited the planet, but I think it might also have been Shashara. Or both.

About the shardblades, remember that Vasher (and Shashara) has lifesense. He can probably sense that even dead shardblades are just a little bit alive when summoned, and would connect that fact to Awakening.

[+hwiles]

10 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Except for the part where an awakened object requires a certain amount of breath/stormlight to function at the specific level. As the stormlight leaks out, I imagine it would  just cease to be awakened once it dropped below a threshold. This is assuming you manage to put more than the minimum required for awakening. In any case, if we're using stormlight as a substitute for breath, so how do you get the analogy that it is like ichor alcohol in lifeless and not breath in lifeless?

 

Exactly!  When you awaken something, it requires a certain amount of Breath to be able to function.  If you don't have enough Breath to fuel it, your Breath still gets transferred, but the object isn't Awakened.  If you Awakened something with stormlight it could only function for a relatively short period of time before it shut down (due to stormlight not being sticky), unless you could find a way to continuously dump additional Investiture into it (this isn't crazy, it could theoretically be accomplished with additional gemstones).  The point is that awakening with stormlight would require pre-planning and additional resources; just awakening things on the fly like Susebron and his magic carpets and tapestries wouldn't work, but...constructing a lifeless out of a corpse sewn with gemstones might be conceivable...

[Spoolofwhool]

2 hours ago, hwiles said:

Exactly!  When you awaken something, it requires a certain amount of Breath to be able to function.  If you don't have enough Breath to fuel it, your Breath still gets transferred, but the object isn't Awakened.  If you Awakened something with stormlight it could only function for a relatively short period of time before it shut down (due to stormlight not being sticky), unless you could find a way to continuously dump additional Investiture into it (this isn't crazy, it could theoretically be accomplished with additional gemstones).  The point is that awakening with stormlight would require pre-planning and additional resources; just awakening things on the fly like Susebron and his magic carpets and tapestries wouldn't work, but...constructing a lifeless out of a corpse sewn with gemstones might be conceivable...

True. Gemstones in a lifeless could work. But honestly, at the end of the day, what you're getting is a mix of two systems which is a lot less efficient than if you just used the original system. I mean, look Nightblood, he's a hack of breath to make a shardblade out of breath, which is a lot more powerful, but requires extra power so it cannot be used as often. I think that 99/100, you would want a shardblade which can be used all the time without cost but can only cut spiritual over physical, versus a shardblade which cuts spiritual, cognitive and physical, but requires investiture continuously.

[Yata]

The idea is fashinating but I really doubt that if you push new "blank" Stormlight into an awakened object those Stormlight will fuel the awakening.

For example: If a Lifeless is really damaged and need "extra breath" to keep to be. I really doubt that you may fix it simply with a guy and "my life is your, my breath become your" 

Without put in the problem "how to made a Awakened entity alone absorbs Stormlight"

[+hwiles]

4 hours ago, Yata said:

The idea is fashinating but I really doubt that if you push new "blank" Stormlight into an awakened object those Stormlight will fuel the awakening.

For example: If a Lifeless is really damaged and need "extra breath" to keep to be. I really doubt that you may fix it simply with a guy and "my life is your, my breath become your" 

Without put in the problem "how to made a Awakened entity alone absorbs Stormlight"

Hmm...I wonder how a lifeless created from the corpse of a Radiant's Squire would function...Sanderson has stated that, strictly speaking, a Lifeless counts as a different person than the corpse it was created from, IE: if you store your Breath in something, die, then become a Lifeless, you can't recover the stored Breath.  However, he's also indicated that much more is retained by the Lifeless than people in the Cosmere currently believe or understand (and even suggested that a Lifeless might be a viewpoint character at some point).  But what if they maintained enough Connection to the Radiant they were serving?  Would they be able to draw in Stormlight still?

SH Spoiler

Spoiler

We've seen Connection do some seriously weird stuff, like Kelsier being able to speak directly to Spook and Vin after his dying.