Modern Scadrial Snapping

[The Lord Shardbearer]

So I have just finished the Bands of Mourning and I was thinking did Saze change the way snapping works or has he totally changed the way allomancy works?

Edited September 1, 2016 by The Lord Shardbearer

[Thunder_93]

He only changed the way snapping works.
Allomancy is still pretty much the same, they only have now more metals. They would have worked back in the first trilogy as well, but they didn't have the technology to actually produce / get them (talking about Nicrosil, Chromium, Cadmium, Bendalloy).

But we only know that the snapping was changed by Sazed, but still happens in another way. But how that is, we don't know yet

[The Lord Shardbearer]

So what about Freuchemy? How do you know if you are a Feruchemist? Did it change much from the Lord Rulers time?

[Yata]

19 minutes ago, The Lord Shardbearer said:

So what about Freuchemy? How do you know if you are a Feruchemist? Did it change much from the Lord Rulers time?

The mixing between Terrismen and people with allomantic genes...made the Feruchemy less powerful and the Ferring began to born.

Actually someone may be a Twinborn (aka a Misting and Ferring) but it's pretty rare among the popolation because F-Genes and A-Genes don't work well together.

Also Twinborn can't know to be a Twinborn at the first. He starts as Ferring, one day he snaps and discovers to be a Twinborn.

For example Wax at the beginning thinks to be a Iron Ferring but one day (pretty young as far we saw), He snapped and discoverd to be also a Coinshot

Edited September 1, 2016 by Yata

[Thunder_93]

@ Lord Shardbearer:

As much as I know, we can't really answer how they realised they were Feruchemists. Probably you're born with it, and you just have to try every single metal, if you feel something... 

Or maybe they actually do have a Snapping too, but I don't think so, as never anything like that was mentioned. Overall, Feruchemy has still some secrets. Just what you asked (honestly, never thought about that), how the you get a Full Feruchemist (like you get a Mistborn with Lerasium).

So yeah, probably we'll find out more about it.

[The Lord Shardbearer]

Great thank you. I always thought they had heard Harmony telling them that was the metal for them.

[Yata]

@Thunder_93 Feruchemist don't snap..They born already with their power.

Also, a Feruchemist (and a Ferring) feels some affinity when he is in contact with a storable metal.

Therefore I really think that simply every child are tested to see if they have a Feruchemical ability. It's quite easy to do. you have just to give tham a bar made by sections of the 16 metals and ask them if they feel something strange while they run their hand on it (there are tons of way to make this test)

[goody153]

On 9/1/2016 at 4:43 PM, The Lord Shardbearer said:

So I have just finished the Bands of Mourning and I was thinking did Saze change the way snapping works or has he totally changed the way allomancy works?

Afaik Sazed opened the Scandrials soul or something like that so that there's no more of the need to put people in almost dead state to snap.

[The One Who Connects]

14 hours ago, goody153 said:

Afaik Sazed opened the Scandrials soul or something like that so that there's no more of the need to put people in almost dead state to snap.

I think Brandon said that he "reduced the threshold," but that they still have to snap in some way (probably a function of the magic itself)

[PantsForSquares]

On 9/1/2016 at 3:50 AM, Thunder_93 said:

He only changed the way snapping works.
Allomancy is still pretty much the same, they only have now more metals. They would have worked back in the first trilogy as well, but they didn't have the technology to actually produce / get them (talking about Nicrosil, Chromium, Cadmium, Bendalloy).

IIRC, cadmium and bendalloy wouldn't have worked because Preservation messed with Allomancy in order to allow for the presence of atium (and presumably malatium) Mistings, in order to burn off Ruin's body and weaken him*. It gets fixed during Sazed's ascension, though.

*It's been forever and a half since I've read Hero of Ages, but I do remember there being a section about the fact that 1/16 of the people who Snapped died(?), but that was because they were atium Mistings. I might be misremembering this, though.

[The One Who Connects]

19 minutes ago, PantsForSquares said:

*It's been forever and a half since I've read Hero of Ages, but I do remember there being a section about the fact that 1/16 of the people who Snapped died(?), but that was because they were atium Mistings. I might be misremembering this, though.

Yeah, the Mistfallen. That 16th were sick a lot longer, via Preservation making a sign. 1/16, 16 metals, 16 this, 16 that, divine signs, etc..

So you mostly remembered right

[Yata]

22 minutes ago, PantsForSquares said:

IIRC, cadmium and bendalloy wouldn't have worked because Preservation messed with Allomancy in order to allow for the presence of atium (and presumably malatium) Mistings, in order to burn off Ruin's body and weaken him*. It gets fixed during Sazed's ascension, though.

*It's been forever and a half since I've read Hero of Ages, but I do remember there being a section about the fact that 1/16 of the people who Snapped died(?), but that was because they were atium Mistings. I might be misremembering this, though.

1/16 of the Snapped people didn't die, they simply remained sick longer and as you said those people was Atium Misting. The only people who die was the one who don't resist the Snapping process but they aren't actual a precise number (the old, the weak,ecc...)

EDIT: Ninjed by @The One Who Connects

Edited September 23, 2016 by Yata

[Eki]

22 hours ago, PantsForSquares said:

IIRC, cadmium and bendalloy wouldn't have worked because Preservation messed with Allomancy in order to allow for the presence of atium (and presumably malatium) Mistings, in order to burn off Ruin's body and weaken him*. It gets fixed during Sazed's ascension, though.

*It's been forever and a half since I've read Hero of Ages, but I do remember there being a section about the fact that 1/16 of the people who Snapped died(?), but that was because they were atium Mistings. I might be misremembering this, though.

I don't think he changed Allomancy to allow for that. He put the patterns there in order to give people a clue, but that doesn't mean the other types of Mistings didn't exist as well. You're assuming that every type of Misting was 1%, adding up to 16% in total, which we don't know, and that ALL Mistings were force snapped by the mists, which we don't know either. It's much more likely that there were more than 16% Mistings in those groups, but the mists only force snapped 16% of them, and made sure exactly 1/16 of those were Seers. Otherwise, Preservation must have done some serious manipulation to make sure the numbers of a whole army were exact.

[Spoolofwhool]

10 minutes ago, Eki said:

I don't think he changed Allomancy to allow for that. He put the patterns there in order to give people a clue, but that doesn't mean the other types of Mistings didn't exist as well. You're assuming that every type of Misting was 1%, adding up to 16% in total, which we don't know, and that ALL Mistings were force snapped by the mists, which we don't know either. It's much more likely that there were more than 16% Mistings in those groups, but the mists only force snapped 16% of them, and made sure exactly 1/16 of those were Seers. Otherwise, Preservation must have done some serious manipulation to make sure the numbers of a whole army were exact.

Preservation set it up so that the mist snapped 1/16 of the people mistings, with 1/16 of those who snapped being sick longer so and becoming Seers. Also, the mists didn't snap people to be Nicrobursts, Leechers, Sliders or Pulsers since Preservation decided they wouldn't be useful powers at that point, and they were replaced with malatium and atium, at least. That does add up 14, so I'm probably missing a substitution. 

16% isn't 1/16 by the way, also, I doubt the numbers were even between all misting types. Seems more likely that Preservation would manipulate the numbers a bit so that there would be more useful abilities like Steel, Iron, Pewter, Tin, Zinc, and Brass than ones like Aluminum, Duraluminum, Malatium or Gold.

[Eki]

Just now, Spoolofwhool said:

Preservation set it up so that the mist snapped 1/16 of the people mistings, with 1/16 of those who snapped being sick longer so and becoming Seers. Also, the mists didn't snap people to be Nicrobursts, Leechers, Sliders or Pulsers since Preservation decided they wouldn't be useful powers at that point, and they were replaced with malatium and atium, at least. That does add up 14, so I'm probably missing a substitution. 

16% isn't 1/16 by the way, also, I doubt the numbers were even between all misting types. Seems more likely that Preservation would manipulate the numbers a bit so that there would be more useful abilities like Steel, Iron, Pewter, Tin, Zinc, and Brass than ones like Aluminum, Duraluminum, Malatium or Gold.

It was 16% who were forced snapped, not 1/16. I don't think we ever find out which types of Mistings they are, except the Seers. When Yomen gives Elend the final clue, he says he doesn't know about the last metals either (and of course, he's assuming atium is one of them), he's just assuming the total to be 16 because it's an important number.

[Spoolofwhool]

1 hour ago, Eki said:

It was 16% who were forced snapped, not 1/16. I don't think we ever find out which types of Mistings they are, except the Seers. When Yomen gives Elend the final clue, he says he doesn't know about the last metals either (and of course, he's assuming atium is one of them), he's just assuming the total to be 16 because it's an important number.

Ah yes, you are correct. My apologies. 

[The Lord Shardbearer]

Wow this has gone deeper than I expected. Great answers. 

[PantsForSquares]

4 hours ago, Eki said:

I don't think he changed Allomancy to allow for that. He put the patterns there in order to give people a clue, but that doesn't mean the other types of Mistings didn't exist as well. You're assuming that every type of Misting was 1%, adding up to 16% in total, which we don't know, and that ALL Mistings were force snapped by the mists, which we don't know either. It's much more likely that there were more than 16% Mistings in those groups, but the mists only force snapped 16% of them, and made sure exactly 1/16 of those were Seers. Otherwise, Preservation must have done some serious manipulation to make sure the numbers of a whole army were exact.

There's a WoB that explicitly says that Leras swapped out cadmium and bendalloy for atium/malatium (bolded segment is the relevant part):

Quote

Chaos2651

Hemalurgically, atium steals Allomantic Temporal Powers. But, that seems unlikely, since atium is a god metal. It wouldn't fit in with the rest of the magic system. Did Preservation, in addition to switching Cadmium and Bendalloy for Atium and Malatium, also switch atium's Feruchemical and Hemalurgic powers with Cadmium? Because it seems to me there's not a lot of atium Marsh can use to live for hundreds of years into the next Mistborn trilogy.

Brandon Sanderson

Preservation wanted Atium and Malatium to be of use to the people, as he recognized that it would be a very powerful tool—and that using it up could help defeat Ruin. But he also recognized that sixteen was a mythological important number, and felt it would make the best sign for his followers. So he took out the most unlikely (difficult to make and use) metals for his sign to his followers. But that doesn't have much to do with Hemalurgy's use here.

Leras could have technically made it eighteen metals, but keeping it at sixteen was all part of his hint system. That's why atium/malatium were incorporated as the external temporal metals, and not cadmium/bendalloy.

Edited September 24, 2016 by PantsForSquares

[Eki]

6 minutes ago, PantsForSquares said:

There's a WoB that explicitly says that Leras swapped out cadmium and bendalloy for atium/malatium (bolded segment is the relevant part):

Leras could have technically made it eighteen metals, but keeping it at sixteen was all part of his hint system. That's why atium/malatium were incorporated as the external temporal metals, and not cadmium/bendalloy.

Yes, but as Brandon says, he swapped them out in his sign to his followers. That doesn't mean that he literally changed Allomancy. There could still have been cadmium and bendalloy Mistings, in addition to the atium (and possibly malatium) ones.

[Oversleep]

On 24.09.2016 at 11:27 PM, Eki said:

Yes, but as Brandon says, he swapped them out in his sign to his followers. That doesn't mean that he literally changed Allomancy. There could still have been cadmium and bendalloy Mistings, in addition to the atium (and possibly malatium) ones.

That's right! Brandon told us:

Quote

Lady Radagu

Were there Cadmium/Bendalloy and possibly Chromium/Nicrosil mistings in the Final Empire? If yes, were the mists Snapping those too?

Brandon Sanderson (Paraphrased)

Um, yes, there were, but since the mists were trying to create a pattern to be a sign, and people didn't know all the metals, they [the mists] had to use substitutions. They were acting the way we've seen other cognitive shadows, who are deceased, act.

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