Thanatos Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 (edited) I've been reading WoB which is freaking awesome! So i came across these: (Emphasis on the word 'force') Quote askthepaperclip Was there a force determining which way it shattered? Brandon Sanderson Yes! Quote Chaos (17th Shard) There is an opposing force to Adonalsium,... He wrote: Brandon Sanderson There was a weapon created by the opposition of Adonalsium. Quote claytonphillips () Before Adonalsium shattered, was it consciously opposed by something, be it people or another cosmic force? Is whatever opposed it still around? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Yes. What if there were two God Shards with Adonalsium being one of them? And Adonalsium's opposing force (the other God Shard) manipulated the 16 and potentially others like Hoid and Frost to shatter their God into 16 specific intents with some sort of God killing weapon. As they the 16 could deal the blow more so than the opposition. And the reason for the current 16 intents was intentional so 'the opposition' could better get what it wants. Which is unknown to the readers at this stage. Could very well be the opposition is alien to the Cosmere and part of another dwarf galaxy nearby. Thanatos Edit: I dont believe the Shards themselves are power. I think the bigger the shard/splinter lets the vessel/user gain more acess to 'investure'. Like ram in a computer. The more ram the more information can be processed at any one time (excluding cpu's) Edited August 16, 2016 by Thanatos 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 Brandon himself said we go to further with the "force" idea. Also the 16 Vessels were a force aganist Adonalsium. Of course this doesn't mean you are wrong, but be careful because a "force" may be also 16 determinate mortals with the right knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanatos Posted August 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 (edited) Yata, I understand that the 16 or more may have been the 'force'. But it sounds bigger than that. Seems like Hoid hints at another 'outside' force involved. Thanatos Edited August 16, 2016 by Thanatos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel he/him Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 49 minutes ago, Thanatos said: Seems like Hoid hints at another 'outside' force involved. Could you be more specific? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanatos Posted August 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 Cant specifically point one out now, so many books to remember. So not sure how i came by this. Is there a list of Hoid parts within the books anywhere? Like page $$ in book $$. Thanatos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagerunner he/him Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 Here's the quote in question, with Brandon saying that he was intentionally interpreting "force" very broadly, giving him a lot of wiggle room to answer those questions. He says now that he isn't referring to an anti-Adonalsium-type being. Furthermore, Khriss says in Secret History that sixteen people shattered Adonalsium, and that's what it appears Brandon was referring to; the alliance of 16 individuals as a "force." If you're looking for Hoid quotes, he hasn't been too active on-screen until Stormlight. Both of those books have a good bit of dialogue from him, as does Secret History. Bands of Mourning doesn't have a ton, but he does have some lines. I don't think he says anything significant in Elantris, Warbreaker, the original Mistborn trilogy, or the first two Wax and Wayne books. (And he's not actually in any of the novellas apart from Secret History, or White Sand [as far as I can tell].) Hope that helps narrow it down. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanatos Posted August 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 (edited) Real quick as im watching a doco but what does it mean when a thread has a star is next to it? Pagerunner, Give me 20mins and ill respond. Just want to finish the doco Edited August 16, 2016 by Thanatos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanatos Posted August 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 (edited) Pagerunner, thanks for that link. Only seen a little of it and will read in full tomorrow. Its 11pm in auz and ive had a long day of work and abit pissy lol. Adonalsium's opposition does not need to be an anti-Adonalsium shard. Just another God Shard. Capital G where the 16 are gods with lower case g. Like Brandon said, it could have been shattered differently. Meaning shattered in different intents. Just like this 'force' could be shattered differently. The 16 definitely played a part in this. Manipulation or not. Not really looking for Hoid quotes per say, just bookmakes where his in within each novel/la. Thanatos Edit. And it seems Hoid has the weapon hidden... Re: The Letters... 'Let me first assure you that the ""element"" is quite safe. I have found a good home for it. I protect its safety like my own skin, you might say.' Edit x2 Maybe this 'element' is literally on Hoids skin? Thanatos Edited August 16, 2016 by Thanatos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 If I don't remember wrong. The "element" is a bead of Lerasium that Hoid stoled from Scadrial in the WoA, but I may remember wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PallonianFire he/him Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 2 hours ago, Thanatos said: And it seems Hoid has the weapon hidden... Re: The Letters... 'Let me first assure you that the ""element"" is quite safe. I have found a good home for it. I protect its safety like my own skin, you might say.' 1 hour ago, Yata said: If I don't remember wrong. The "element" is a bead of Lerasium that Hoid stoled from Scadrial in the WoA, but I may remember wrong. The "element" is indeed the bead of Lerasium Hoid stole from the Well: MIKE COCKRUM (23 JANUARY 2013) How many shards has Hoid received powers from, whether taken, stolen, given, etc.? BRANDON SANDERSON (23 JANUARY 2013) Well, he has a bead of Lerasium. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Returned he/him Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 Interesting idea, but all the evidence from WoBs and books say that Adonalsium is the only God. Haven't seen Hoid say anything that really points to this. The element is definitely Lerasium. The only possibility is if the God Beyond has that kind of power. But as of this moment the theories about the 16 Vessels making a plan and somehow Shattering Adonalsium with a weapon of some kind that's whereabouts are as of now unknown is a lot more supported and makes a lot more sense. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanatos Posted August 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 Where do we get the confirmation the element is Lerasium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PallonianFire he/him Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 From WoB on the Rithmatist tour: On 6/3/2013 at 11:38 PM, little wilson said: As of tonight at the Provo Library signing, Brandon confirmed that the element is the bead of Lerasium. Which confirms both this theory, and the theory that Hoid wrote the letter (which, let's face it, everyone knew anyway). Edit for disclaimer: When I asked the question, I also thought the element and the lerasium were different. I asked it as a "Hoid clearly has a habit for taking important items. He has the bead of lerasium and the element. What other items does he have that we should know about?" Brandon's response was that the bead and the element are the same. And that he has many items he should not have. Unfortunately, my phone's battery power was super-low so I couldn't record this response. But if any of you doubt me, ask Mi'ch or Josh. Or Peter. They were all there. From this thread http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/2913-the-letter-the-element/?page=2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanatos Posted August 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 PallonianFire Thanks for that. So if Hoid has Allomancy would that not make him the element? He protects its safety like his own skin, you might say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PallonianFire he/him Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 We don't really know. Brandon has said on a couple occasions that Hoid hasn't used the Lerasium the way we'd expect. There are some theories about a metalmind. All I know for sure is that he has it, he didn't use it the way we expect...and yet he's clearly an allomancer, as we see in WoR. We'll probably have to see if we get anything more in Oathbringer that'll give more hints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanatos Posted August 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 (edited) Ahh so thats where the tattoo theory come into it. Edit: So if Hoid has Lerasium on him would that mean Sazed can track his every move? Edited August 17, 2016 by Thanatos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted August 17, 2016 Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 7 hours ago, Thanatos said: So if Hoid has Lerasium on him would that mean Sazed can track his every move? I really doubt of this, first of all Sazed has a very limitated view of what happen in the Cosmere. Second but more important. From the books don't seems that a Shard is capable of locate the position of his solid form (godmetal). Or Ruin would have find the Atium in 3 minutes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanatos Posted August 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 Yata. Very good point there. I dont know why i thought that given the obvious Ati example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goody153 Posted August 17, 2016 Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 3 hours ago, Yata said: I really doubt of this, first of all Sazed has a very limitated view of what happen in the Cosmere. Second but more important. From the books don't seems that a Shard is capable of locate the position of his solid form (godmetal). Or Ruin would have find the Atium in 3 minutes Yeah though i suspect if Hoid starts using allomancy i think Sazed can track him. Kinda like everybody who uses hemalurgy Ati/Sazed has a good knowledge who the hell is using their magic system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanatos Posted August 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 (edited) Just thought of something regarding Sazes being able to track Hoid through the Lerasium bead. Isnt the reason why Ati couldnt find the Atium stash due to the Lord Ruler covering the pits and surrounding landscape in metal? Kinda like Superman and iron. Take away the metal and Ati could track Atium. What if Hoid is covering his Lerasium bead in metal or even metalminds. Such as the tattoo theory with a metalmind over it. Just thinking out loud. Goodie153, What was the reason again why Sazes could not track Bleeder? Was it that other unknown metal? Thanatos Edited August 17, 2016 by Thanatos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Returned he/him Posted August 17, 2016 Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 Sazed couldn't find Bleeder because her spike was made of Trellium, not a metal associated with him or his magic system. He was able to talk to her apparently but couldn't find her or see where she was. As far as Sazed tracking Hoid, why would he want to? As far as we've seen Sazed and Hoid haven't had any interactions, Sazed probably isn't even aware he exists. I'm not sure how far away from a Shard's planet they can look or track, as evidenced by Sazed's limited understanding of Cosmere events. At this point, Sazed has more than enough on his plate before he starts worrying about some worldhopper he's never met using allomancy on (mostly) other planets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goody153 Posted August 17, 2016 Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 @Thanatos The material used as a hemalurgic spike was from Trell not Harmony.(There's a WoB about this) Though since Hemalurgy is still Ruin so Sazed still had connection over bleeder even though he used a different metal for hemalurgic purposes. I suspect Sazed knows about Hoid but i don't think he sees Hoid as a threat and more like a trespasser. Idk why people assume that since Hoid is mysterious and seemed to have some kind of agenda he could hide from a shard which is practically the strongest entities we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel he/him Posted August 17, 2016 Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 I think there's a WoB that Sazed as Harmony have met and spoke meaningful words or something like that. Brandon was pretty vague on the details, and "meaningful" could mean anything when Hoid is involved. Do we have any evidence that a shard can track those using its power? From any setting? The best we seem to have is Ruin/Harmony and Hemalurgic spikes. And Brandon has said Hemalurgy is an atypical magic system (though that could be more about it being end-negative). Also, there is a WoB that Hoid does not have any spikes. I'm sketicjer in this, but I think Brandon may have indicated Hemalurgy is not Hoid's style, so he might be avoiding it for philosophical reasons (not just that Ruin/Harmony could track or influence him). But like I said, I'm sketchier on that last part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted August 17, 2016 Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 @Argel I rememeber the WoB about Hoid and Hemalurgy, but if I remember right, Hoid doesn't have Spikes because He will not let to open himself to external influences (through Hemalurgy's weakness) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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