theory Vasher Owns an Honorblade

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

As I recall, there is a WoB out there that states that Vasher/Zahel survives on Roshar using stormlight to fuel his life instead of breath.

Well, that all makes sense. I can see why one kind of investiture would be as good a fuel as another. I suppose absorbing stormlight is very convenient for a returned Vasher, because it is a lot less rare than breath, plus he probably has access to it's healing properties and the like.

But. How exactly is he absorbing stormlight? Regular people don't do that!

So. The fact that he can absorb it in the first place only has a few possible explanations. Each of them have very interesting implications. Let us examine them.

 

Explanation 1: There is a trick that will let anyone absorb stormlight, and only Vasher knows it (maybe some kind of fabrial...?). This trick is how he is able to breath stormlight. This would be extremely interesting because that means everyone can theoretically use a ubiquitous resource on Roshar to gain supernatural strength, speed, and healing. This is fairly unlikely, because I can't really see how the story would work if some day people figure this out, and then everyone on Roshar is suddenly superhuman.

Explanation 2: This has something to do with the fact that Vasher is returned. Somehow, his status of returned is letting him breath stormlight. I have no idea why being returned would let him do this, but it seems like a sensible explanation. This would also in turn mean that a lot of returned would probably find it convenient to move to Roshar. I would probably say this explanation is the second most likely, even though the mechanism for how this could work is (at least right now) unclear.

Explanation 3: This one is quite unlikely. But possibly why Vasher can use stormlight is because he is actually a radiant. Perhaps after the events in Warbreaker, he eventually became one of the first radiants, probably around the time Jasnah was discovering her powers. I doubt it, but we can't rule it out I suppose.

Explanation 4: This one is in my opinion the most interesting. And I believe it is also the most likely option. Vasher has an honorblade. Most honorblades are held by the Shin (one of them of coarse being wielded by Szeth), but there is also reason to believe that some of them are missing from the Shin. When Taravangian was lying to Szeth about one of the blades disappearing (to explain Kaladin's powers), I think he said something like "one of the eight" disappeared. That means the Shin own eight of the ten. I am pretty sure Nalan has one of the missing blades, because Lift witnessed him wield a shardblade and use stormlight. I believe Vasher secretly owns the second missing blade. That lines up with everything we know so far. And this happens to be the only known mechanism for someone who doesn't take radiant oaths to be able to do what Vasher is apparently doing.

 

So, in conclusion, Vasher probably owns an honorblade I guess. He seems to have some kind of affinity for extremely invested swords.

[CaptainRyan he/him]

I'm on mobile so I am not going to look it up but in a previous thread we accounted for every Honorblade. Unless Sanderson lied through the characters (possible but unlikely imo) then every Honorblade is spoken for and Vasher could not have one. 

Quick recap of a much longer discussion in that thread:

There are ten (10) Honorblades. One (1) went with Taln to Braize. One (1) was reclaimed by a Herald (possibly Nalan but we are not 100% on this). One (1) was with Szeth and is now with Dalinar. The remaining seven (7) are with the Shin. 

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

Oh yeah I forgot about the one Taln had...

Although... Did Taln actually return with the blade? We know he had a shardblade but I think it was actually not an honorblade because it screamed when Dalinar dropped it to bond the stormfather.

And also, Taravangian might not actually have been lying when he said one disappeared...

The findings of the thread, of coarse, do make the honorblade theory less likely. It is still possible but it is less likely.

Which means we are still without a completely satisfactory answer for how Vasher is absorbing stormlight...

[CaptainRyan he/him]

27 minutes ago, Drake Marshall said:

We know he had a shardblade but I think it was actually not an honorblade because it screamed when Dalinar dropped it to bond the stormfather.

There is a WoB about this but even without that you can learn what happened. If you read the description of the Blade Taln is carrying when he arrives in Kholinar and compare it to the description of the Blade Dalinar uses you will notice that they are completely different Blades. This is why Dalinar hears the screams; someone swapped Taln's original Blade at some point. 

 

31 minutes ago, Drake Marshall said:

Taravangian might not actually have been lying when he said one disappeared.

I think the scene is fairly clear that he was lying but, perhaps, he was not. 

[Yata he/him]

I developed a theory based on your "Explaination 2". It's in my signature but to say it in few words.

I think Roshar's magic empowered Bonds and this manifest with two "powers": 1) a thematic power related to the bond's nature and 2) the ability to drawn in the local Investiture (Stormlight). A Returned it's for his own definition someone with a Endowment's Splinter bonded with and it may be a possible explaination. Of course with the same logic also a Seon's Bond and Nightblood's Bond gift the ability to drawn in Stormlight (and some thematic power)

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

Well we already know that nightblood does indeed grant such an ability... And in his case that happens to be the order of skybreakers, which is perhaps rather compatible with nightblood's personality.

As a returned, the resultant powers... Well it could be that he thus gains the power of one of the orders, but then nightblood is a lot more like a shardblade then Vasher's soul is (also on this topic, I wonder if Szeth is bound by conventional radiant oaths... I would guess he is but then with nightblood it is hard to tell).

One way or another... The ability to absorb stormlight implies access to some kind of surgebinding. Vasher is probably a bit more important than we think he is in all of this.

As for the missing honorblade... There are so many secret agendas on Roshar... It will be very interesting to see where this crops up later. I suppose the timelines imply that Vasher could not have been using that honorblade to live off stormlight all this time, but some other group then will possess an extremely dangerous weapon, considering that the blade doesn't require the user to keep oaths.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Drake Marshall

[asterion137 he/him]

He could also own something like the moon scepter which allows him to convert types of investiture. Then i guess he would just have to say "Your breath to mine" while touching an infused gemstone

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

Wait how do we know that the moon sceptre can do this again...?

Edit:

Also, in regard to Yata's other thread on the topic, Sanderson all but confirmed that it has something to do with the fact that Vasher is returned. Specifically something to do with the fact that his spirit is anomalous (but not necessarily a conventional "bond").

So this is apparently how it works. Also, the way that last WoB was phrased almost implies that a hemalurgic construct might also be able to absorb stormlight...

Edited August 11, 2016 by Drake Marshall

[Oversleep]

Maybe he, like the gems, becomes Invested as highstorm passes by?

[Pathfinder]

13 hours ago, asterion137 said:

He could also own something like the moon scepter which allows him to convert types of investiture. Then i guess he would just have to say "Your breath to mine" while touching an infused gemstone

I thought the moon scepter was like a "Rosetta stone" for Selish investiture? So between Aons, Dakhor, Chaysan, Blood Sealing, and Forgery. 

[asterion137 he/him]

15 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

I thought the moon scepter was like a "Rosetta stone" for Selish investiture? So between Aons, Dakhor, Chaysan, Blood Sealing, and Forgery. 

Something like that for Nalthis could exist too

[Pathfinder]

28 minutes ago, asterion137 said:

Something like that for Nalthis could exist too

Yes, but you misunderstand what I meant. My understanding is it is a rosetta stone for that native investiture. So it works for Sel because there are so many manifestations of the dor. If there was one for Nalthis, it would be a rosseta stone for different manifestations of Nalthis. I think the WoB said it wasn't so you could basically use it to access/use any investiture other than your own. But I am going on memory so I could be wrong. Did I at least explain my impression well? Sorry to be confusing. 

edit: another example. if there was an analogue on Scadrial, it would let you use allomancy, and feruchemy interchangeably, but not stormlight. Now you see what I mean?

Edited August 11, 2016 by Pathfinder

[asterion137 he/him]

He also said that it would make seons work off sel more easily iirc. Which favors inter-world translation more than the in-world variant

[Pathfinder]

Just now, asterion137 said:

He also said that it would make seons work off sel more easily iirc. Which favors inter-world translation more than the in-world variant

Do you have the WoB? That would help a lot. Like I said, unfortunately my luck with the interview database sucks 

[asterion137 he/him]

https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasy/comments/3va8fw/-/cxngrwp?context=3

[Pathfinder]

3 hours ago, asterion137 said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasy/comments/3va8fw/-/cxngrwp?context=3

Sorry for the delay. couldn't view it on my work computer. So everyone can see, I will type it up below and then reply:

Q: Have we seen any soul-stamped objects in any of the non-Sel books?

B: For you to have seen this, someone would have to have cracked the issue with Sel magics losing power greatly when taken from the planet

Q:Is this a feasible task for someone like Shai or Hoid? We know the Moon Scepter is a rosetta stone, so the task seems less daunting, right?

B: The task is less daunting for certain. i don't want to say more, however, as I think the clues are there about Sel's magic, and I want to avoid saying too much

 

So I think that is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to vague to claim the moon scepter would accomplish what you claim. could it be that the rosetta stone helps you further understand selish investiture to then figure out how to make it not lose as much strength when on other planets. I do not see in this WoB mention of seons. Did I miss it?

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

Hm... Well in Secret History we saw what looked a lot like Sel power functioning off-world. But we also saw that they had to go to certain lengths to keep the power (it seemed like they were Elantrians that needed to drink that substance to sustain themselves away from Sel). So that might inform us something of the challenges in using Sellish powers off-world (also note that none of them appeared to be able to invoke Aons...)

But I think it makes sense that Sellish magic would have these issues, given that everything is so closely linked to geography. A different planet means different geography and all that.

If the moon sceptre is a rosetta stone though, I can imagine how it might be useful for a Sellish worldhopper. Although Sanderson implied that it would take more than the sceptre to perform Sel magic on other worlds.

 

Anyway, Vasher could have a device to transfer stormlight... But I think the WoB in Yata's thread implies that it has more to do with how a returned has an unusual soul. Something along the lines of it being easier for investiture to permeate something like a returned.

[Yata he/him]

It's not strictly related to the thread but I think the Moon Sceptre works only within Sel as Universal Dor Access from every Sel's region with every Sel's Magic System (with some effort).

Also if recently (this afternoon) I began to ask me about the Sceptre's origin.

[goody153]

On 8/10/2016 at 1:42 PM, CaptainRyan said:

I'm on mobile so I am not going to look it up but in a previous thread we accounted for every Honorblade. Unless Sanderson lied through the characters (possible but unlikely imo) then every Honorblade is spoken for and Vasher could not have one. 

Quick recap of a much longer discussion in that thread:

There are ten (10) Honorblades. One (1) went with Taln to Braize. One (1) was reclaimed by a Herald (possibly Nalan but we are not 100% on this). One (1) was with Szeth and is now with Dalinar. The remaining seven (7) are with the Shin. 

There's also that Syl would've noticed that Zahel is using stormlight just like how she determined that Szeth was absorbing different amount of stormlight compared to Kaladin.

[Spoolofwhool]

4 hours ago, goody153 said:

There's also that Syl would've noticed that Zahel is using stormlight just like how she determined that Szeth was absorbing different amount of stormlight compared to Kaladin.

Only if he were using stormlight around them. He probably doesn't need to absorb stormlight all the time and does so privately.

[Argel he/him]

1 hour ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Only if he were using stormlight around them. He probably doesn't need to absorb stormlight all the time and does so privately.

Returned only need one breath a week, so he clearly would not need a constant stream of Stormlight. Pretty sure there is a WoB that Vasher has to make provisions for the Weeping, and a small number of gems with Stormlight would be much easier to hide than a large number, which suggests he does not need a lot of it. Wonder how much the everstorm messed things up for him if at all. Also, did the ardents come to U?

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

Well, the everstorm probably doesn't interfere with the fact that a highstorm still infuses gems with stormlight.

I wonder if the everstorm will also infuse things with stormlight. Or a different kind of power. Or possibly neither. Maybe it would interfere with things if the everstorm actually drained gems of stormlight, but I believe it won't do that (even if it would be a cool touch).

Edited August 12, 2016 by Drake Marshall

[Argel he/him]

Oathbringer (SA3) Kaladan Chapter Spoilers

Spoiler

Well, it looks like the two (new Highstorm and the Everstorm) altered the weather a bit -- maybe just temporarily, but I don't think we really know yet. Kaladin comments on it on his trek to Hearthstone. I think that it was supposed to be Weeping, but there was no rain.

 

[nTronz]

Not sure if this was mentioned, but it seems possible the Nightwatcher could have provided a boon to Vasher.

[jtburrup]

I think it makes a lot of sense that Vasher has access to different types of investiture, or that he is less bound. He once held SOOOO many breaths that he (possibly) became a sliver-esque type of person. And I was reading somewhere here on 17th shard that when someone holds that much investiture, it leaves them changed, even after the fact that the investiture is gone. So, Vasher being this sliver-eque type of person, has access to other investitures in ways that other protagonists (Dalinar, Kaladin, etc.) do not.