Can Matter be Destroyed in the Cosmere?

[TheBlueShifting he/him]

This is fairly straightforward. We all should know that one of the fundamental laws of the Universe as we understand it is that Matter cannot be created or destroyed. Technically you could argue that matter is organised energy levels but that's only speculation. However when a Allowmancer burns metals, they vanish completely. As it is said many times, these metals are poison to the body normally and they don't really just "pass" in a healthy way. So what actually happens when the metal is burned? Because we know that the Investiture doesn't come from the metal itself, but the metal acts as a conduit and determines the application of the power. So where does the metal go?

[DeTess she/her]

Actually, it is energy that can't be destroyed, and matter relates to energy through E=mc^2. 'destroying' matter is what fuels nuclear generators and the like. Based on what I've seen in other threads, 'investure' is added to round out these two in the cosmere (energy can be turned into investiture or matter, matter into energy and investiture, etc.). So, most likely conservation of energy still holds. In your example of the metals, the metals are being turned into investiture, withe the total present matter+investiture+energy remaining constant.

[Yata he/him]

Like randuir said The correlation Matter-Energy is proved also our real world. Einstein is famous most for his famous E=mc^2. And just to say we saw this every day because the Nuclear fusion that allow the Star to burn works with this concept.

Anyway in the Cosmere this relation Matter-Energy develop a now member, the Investiture... Investiture may becaome matter or energy (and probably the origin of Cosmere it's just Adonalsium who converted some of his Investiture in all the Matter and Energy of the Universe).. This mean for example that when an Allomancer burns a metal and the metal is destroied.. the Investiture who made the metal simply returns to its source (a Shard, ec..)

[Eki]

I don't think conservation of energy holds in the cosmere (or in our universe on a non-local scale for that matter, but that's a different question).

There have been a few threads about how to create energy using magic, and many of the methods seem unrelated to how much energy they actually produce, if that makes sense. As in, you can do the same thing in different situations and use the same amount of Investiture, but get different amounts of 'real' energy out of it.

In the specific case of Allomancy, the metals don't provide the energy, they are just the key. I assume it actually just disappears. I think there are conflicting WoBs about whether or not metals eventually return to the planet somehow.

Brandon has, however, stated that the cosmere and investiture follows its own rules of conservation of energy, which means there ARE rules, but we don't know them.

[blackout8444 he/him]

I was under the impression that we had confirmation that conservation of energy does apply to the Cosmere.

I believe that @Randuir is right about the metal being converted back into investiture. We know that the metal goes somewhere and investiture is just the most logical place for it to go.

[RShara she/her]

1 hour ago, blackout8444 said:

I was under the impression that we had confirmation that conservation of energy does apply to the Cosmere.

I believe that @Randuir is right about the metal being converted back into investiture. We know that the metal goes somewhere and investiture is just the most logical place for it to go.

Some of these posts are from 2016 That's a lot of books and WoBs ago.

[Karger he/him]

On 7/5/2016 at 5:22 AM, Randuir said:

Actually, it is energy that can't be destroyed, and matter relates to energy through E=mc^2. 'destroying' matter is what fuels nuclear generators and the like. Based on what I've seen in other threads, 'investure' is added to round out these two in the cosmere (energy can be turned into investiture or matter, matter into energy and investiture, etc.). So, most likely conservation of energy still holds. In your example of the metals, the metals are being turned into investiture, withe the total present matter+investiture+energy remaining constant.

The metals are not turning into investiture they are allowing the alomancer to channel investiture from Preservation's body.  The metals themselves are dispersed(whatever that means).

[+King of Herdaz he/him]

1 hour ago, blackout8444 said:

I believe that @Randuir is right about the metal being converted back into investiture. We know that the metal goes somewhere and investiture is just the most logical place for it to go.

Well being as metal is the solid form of investiture in the cosmere it makes sense that it can be converted back into raw investiture.

[RShara she/her]

21 minutes ago, King of Herdaz said:

Well being as metal is the solid form of investiture in the cosmere it makes sense that it can be converted back into raw investiture.

When it's solidified investiture, such as a god metal, it can be converted back into raw investiture. Regular metals are not made of investiture, and don't really convert into investiture. They're more a catalyst that allows investiture through into the physical realm.

[+King of Herdaz he/him]

But in the cognitive realm, as seen in secret history, all metals glow

[RShara she/her]

38 minutes ago, King of Herdaz said:

But in the cognitive realm, as seen in secret history, all metals glow

They glow due to the power trying to come through them, not because they themselves are invested.

Edit: I see you opened another thread on the matter. Let's move this all over there.

Edited July 23, 2019 by RShara

[RShara she/her]

19 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

Well, the metal has to go somewhere when it's "dispersed."  I think that it is being converted into Investiture.  Not that it's powering the Allomantic abilities, but that it's forming the bridge to the Spiritual Realm that releases Preservation's Investiture.  

The discussion moved over here, since this thread is about something else, and is old

 

[Scion of the Mists]

16 hours ago, Karger said:

The metals are not turning into investiture they are allowing the alomancer to channel investiture from Preservation's body.  The metals themselves are dispersed(whatever that means).

Well, the metal has to go somewhere when it's "dispersed."  I think that it is being converted into Investiture.  Not that it's powering the Allomantic abilities, but that it's forming the bridge to the Spiritual Realm that releases Preservation's Investiture.