spacenoxx Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 I really loved this entire scene, in fact it is one of the top 10 scenes in the book IMO. Here BS manages to take us through Kal's feelings regarding Elhokar in a very convincing way. At the end you can really feel why Kal changes his opinion and really understands his second ideal. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erklitt she/her Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 Yeah, I liked this one too. And it gives me some hope that Elhokar will change for the better. This could be a budding Lightweaver; after being haunted by cryptics for some time he's finally given a big, meaningful, painful (for himself) truth. By the way: welcome to the shard! (I seem to have a thing for finding people's first post today ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel he/him Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 Interesting point about a Truth. Some on here have speculated that the Cryptics gave up on him, but maybe not after all.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegatorgirl00 she/her Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 It would be interesting to see a male Lightweaver in a society where they can't be artists, the traditional Lightweaver job. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erklitt she/her Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 4 minutes ago, thegatorgirl00 said: It would be interesting to see a male Lightweaver in a society where they can't be artists, the traditional Lightweaver job. Hadn't thought of that... but yeah! Seems like the cryptics don't pay much heed to Vorin culture, because at any rate, we know that they were once interested in him. But this in fact makes me wonder: maybe part of the reason why he's such a bad king is that he's really an artist at heart? One that never even had a chance to discover his talent, for lack of opportunity? Can anyone think of any hints at this in the books? On the spur of the moment, nothing comes to mind... but i feel like there should be something! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+hwiles Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 By the end of WoR it sounded to me like the Cryptics had been monitoring/spying on him rather than scouting him for Radiant-hood. Quote When you came, the shadows went away. The ... shadows? I saw them in mirrors, in the corners of my eyes. I could swear I even heard them whispering, but you frightened them. I haven't seen them since. There's something about you. Don't try to deny it. -Elhokar to Kaladin It's been hinted that the Cryptics and Honorspren don't get along very well, which is presumably why they leave Elhokar alone once Kaladin starts hanging around, however, I wouldn't think that they would be driven off unless they were doing something relatively shady. 26 minutes ago, Erklitt said: Hadn't thought of that... but yeah! Seems like the cryptics don't pay much heed to Vorin culture, because at any rate, we know that they were once interested in him. But this in fact makes me wonder: maybe part of the reason why he's such a bad king is that he's really an artist at heart? One that never even had a chance to discover his talent, for lack of opportunity? Can anyone think of any hints at this in the books? On the spur of the moment, nothing comes to mind... but i feel like there should be something! On the other hand...I think there are some scenes where Elhokar discusses the design and aesthetics of his "palace" on the shattered plains, and I seem to recall a reference somewhere about him ordering specific improvements (IE: relief carvings and marble tiling in his hallways). Those could be interpreted as indications of artistic inclination, or an under-utilized talent for interior design. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Krooked Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 If I'm not mistaken, Ivory is also a type of Cryptic. And to me personally, he doesn't seem like the type to really be a Lightweaver, but Eslecaller? Maybe... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erklitt she/her Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) 32 minutes ago, King Krooked said: If I'm not mistaken, Ivory is also a type of Cryptic. And to me personally, he doesn't seem like the type to really be a Lightweaver, but Eslecaller? Maybe... I've never seen Ivory as a cryptic - do you remember where you got that idea? (Quote, WoB or whatever...) If that's really the case, you make a good point. As siblings, it might stand to reason Jasnah and Elhokar attract the same kind of spren - though on the other hand, they're not really much alike. Still, good point. [Edit] Do we know what Jasnah has to 'give'? I looked up her first visit to Shadesmar and it said there: Quote She snatched a bead in her hand.; it gave her the Impression of a cup. She gave ... something ... to it? Was there anywhere ever any hint of what she gives? I don't think so, and iirc we don't see her soulcasting from her own POV at any other point. But knowing this would be a valuable hint of wether Elhokar might be on his way to becoming an Elsecaller. [Edit end] 51 minutes ago, hwiles said: On the other hand...I think there are some scenes where Elhokar discusses the design and aesthetics of his "palace" on the shattered plains, and I seem to recall a reference somewhere about him ordering specific improvements (IE: relief carvings and marble tiling in his hallways). Those could be interpreted as indications of artistic inclination, or an under-utilized talent for interior design. Thanks, that's exactly what I'm looking for. Now you mention it, I remember... and will certainly keep my eyes open on next re-read. Edited June 22, 2016 by Erklitt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetLift she/her Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) I thought that the shadows went away when Kal came was because of his bond with Syl. Cryptics and Honorspren do not get along (according to Syl). Edited: I do like this scene and hope that it means that Elhokar will become a better leader Edited June 22, 2016 by SweetLift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erklitt she/her Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 6 minutes ago, SweetLift said: I thought that the shadows went away when Kal came was because of his bond with Syl. Cryptics and Honorspren do not get along (according to Syl). Edited: I do like this scene and hope that it means that Elhokar will become a better leader Yes, that thing about the cryptics withdrawing when Kaladin came along spoils the theory a little... however I still hope to find a way to reconcile the two. Honor spren and cryptics not getting along is probably a part of it, yet I agree that this alone shoudn't be enough to drive them away if they are really interested in Elhokar in the first place. I won't give up looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetLift she/her Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 i still think they cryptics want Elhokar, but I am not sure if they want him to be a radiant. I remember when Shallan started seeing the cryptics when she was drawing it really freaked her out and then the first time she heard (or remembered hearing) the voice, it was scary. I was worried for her at first. So Elhokar being concerned is not surprising, especially since they have tried talking to him. Are all Spren in fact 'good'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainRyan he/him Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 57 minutes ago, Erklitt said: Was there anywhere ever any hint of what she gives? I don't think so, and iirc we don't see her soulcasting from her own POV at any other point. Stormlight. She had just drained one of the wall lamps of Stormlight before falling in to Shadesmar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samaldin he/him Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 5 hours ago, King Krooked said: If I'm not mistaken, Ivory is also a type of Cryptic. And to me personally, he doesn't seem like the type to really be a Lightweaver, but Eslecaller? Maybe... Doesn´t every order of knights radiant have their own kind of spren? I´m fairly sure they do, so Ivory being a cryptic doesn´t work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel he/him Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) On 6/22/2016 at 2:11 PM, SweetLift said: Are all Spren in fact 'good'? Brandon does not think of them as good or evil. As an example, he mentioned that an honor spren could be cruel. Edited June 23, 2016 by Argel Added the missing "not" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainRyan he/him Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 21 hours ago, Argel said: Brandon does think of them as good or evil. As an example, he mentioned that an honor spren could be cruel. To clarify, you mean Sanderson doesn't think of them as good or evil, right? That "does" is just a typo? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel he/him Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 1 hour ago, CaptainRyan said: To clarify, Yeah, I reworded that sentence and tripped my self up. Thanks for the correction!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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