Oversleep Posted June 19, 2016 Posted June 19, 2016 (edited) We've got different magics in cosmere [citation needed]. The thing is, some are not so consistent with what effect they produce as others. The best way to notice this is to try do describe any magic by the least words as you can. Could you describe what AonDor does without listing various Aons? Anyway, let's start: NalthisAwakening That one is consistent, as it's about animating things. Giving them life and ordering them with Command. Sel We know too little about Bloodsealing. *Shrug*Forgery Consistent. Rewriting past of an object (whatever the correction is and whatever the object is). It's done by manipulating Spiritual Aspect of an Object with changes manifesting in Physical and Cognitive.DakHor magic We know very little about it or I don't remember as much from Elantris as I'd like to. I'm open to help.AonDor Failed to see any consistency with what AonDor does. Teleportation, manipulation of elements, healing... Scadrial Allomancy I'd say it's not really consistent. It's telekinesis, enhancing the body, influencing emotions, manipulating sensing of Investiture, temporal seeing and manipulation... I fail to classify enhancement metals. Even if we assume Pushing/Pulling Internal/External as the pattern of Allomancy, what do Physical, Mental, Temporal and Enhancement have to do with each other? Also, godmetals have yet another quadrants (possibly, as atium and malatium fit too well into Temporal; lerasium and its alloys however don't fit even P/P I/E pattern).Feruchemy Consistent. "Be less X for amount of time, later be more X for that amount of time". It does not matter what X is, only that you lower your level of it and later increase it.Hemalurgy Consistent. "Spiritual Transplantation". Rip out fragment of Spiritweb (whatever what that part does), plant it into another Spiritweb. Roshar Roshar is weird. Or we're uninformed. Only Surgebinding we know enough about:Surgebinding Manipulation of Ten Surges. We know too little to judge whether these are consistent or not, but I suspect it's consistent. What are your thoughts? Edited June 19, 2016 by Oversleep
DrakeMarshall he/him Posted June 19, 2016 Posted June 19, 2016 I think that the effects of magic are not so consistent, but note that the source/focus of them always is. This sort of makes sense, because once you have released the raw investiture of a shard, it isn't bound to behave a certain way; it can do anything the user wants it to, but there are different ways to access the power in the first place (which appear to be determined by planet). All Sel powers come from symbols that correspond to geography. All Scadrial powers come from a set of metals/alloys of the correct composition. All nalthis powers appear to be centered on vocal commands. Rosharian powers... That's more difficult. Gemstones? No, those just store the power. Stormlight? Well that's the raw investiture itself, not a means of tapping it. Oaths. Rosharian powers so far as we have seen are all accessed by means of swearing oaths, and more importantly keeping the oaths. That is interesting... Because unlike the others, which seem arbitrary, swearing an oath actually seems to be related to the intent of honor.
Eki Posted June 19, 2016 Posted June 19, 2016 24 minutes ago, Drake Marshall said: Rosharian powers... That's more difficult. Gemstones? No, those just store the power. Stormlight? Well that's the raw investiture itself, not a means of tapping it. Oaths. Rosharian powers so far as we have seen are all accessed by means of swearing oaths, and more importantly keeping the oaths. That is interesting... Because unlike the others, which seem arbitrary, swearing an oath actually seems to be related to the intent of honor. Well... Fabrials don't require oaths, and neither do the Honorblades. The oaths seem more connected to the (sentient) spren (who definitely have much to do with Honor) than magic in general.
Jondesu he/him Posted June 19, 2016 Posted June 19, 2016 Which is why I agree with the theory that it's Bonds that are the core of Rosharan magic instead, since Fabrials involve binding Spren to a machine, or we're not sure, but older ones might not have involved Spren, but something else. Bonds and binding things together seems to be at the heart of all Rosharan magic we've seen. I don't know if that would apply to any exclusively Cultivation-based or Odium-based magic, since Surgebinding seems to be a blend of Honor+Cultivation. jW 1
Eagle of the Forest Path he/him Posted June 19, 2016 Posted June 19, 2016 Awakening might not be so consistent after all. When Vasher mind-wiped the little kidnapped girl, that was most likely also a form of Awakening, I might be missing something but that doesn't seem like animating anything.
Yata he/him Posted June 19, 2016 Posted June 19, 2016 (edited) I am with Jondesu with the Bonds as Roshar's Focus... It's the more likely, but have some weak point in the fabrial (well better then the other possibilities). About Awakening, it's more an Imprint Investiture with some Pseudo Cognitive Entity (like copy something of your own Cognitive in the Breath) and innest in the Subject. With object we have Awakened Object controlled by the PCE, inside a corpse the same thing but the PCE is more affine with an Human body and may use some of his system. Within a living being... the PCE will be integrated in the being, this change the subject Cognitive with PCE's Command. In the end whatever someone give his Breath to another do just this... Giving the PCE to another with the Command of change ownership. Edited June 19, 2016 by Yata
Darkness Ascendant he/him Posted June 19, 2016 Posted June 19, 2016 Look at magic like a tree. The very roots lie with Adonalsium and the Shards. The Trunk is Investiture itself. The branches are the worlds and the twigs and leaves are the magics. I suspect the magics are similar to our very own energies. Think of it this way The Big Bang- The Shattering of Adonalsium, heck the Big Bang could have been a primordial "atom" being split. Planets- Shardworlds The Shardworlds themselves are all different but similar as well, same as our planets. The Shards are what remain of Adonalisum in the same way how Matter, Darkmatter, Quantum Particles, Gluons, Electrons etc etc are remnants of the big bang Everything is at it's source made up of the same electrons, neutrons, protons, and more abstract things made up of chronons, gluons etc etc same way how every magic system in the Cosmere (Universe ) is primarily made of Investiture In this way we can say that all the magic systems are the same thing but different 1
Oversleep Posted June 19, 2016 Author Posted June 19, 2016 7 hours ago, Drake Marshall said: I think that the effects of magic are not so consistent, but note that the source/focus of them always is. This sort of makes sense, because once you have released the raw investiture of a shard, it isn't bound to behave a certain way; it can do anything the user wants it to, but there are different ways to access the power in the first place (which appear to be determined by planet). The whole point of this topic is to strip the magic of the focus, source and it's end-variable. It doesn't matter in this analysis. There are some magic systems with strong internal cohesion and then there are some which have very little (Allomancy) or none at all (AonDor). That is, if we look at the effects. Also, if anyone wants to discuss about Roshar's Focus, there is a nice thread I made a while ago.
Yata he/him Posted June 19, 2016 Posted June 19, 2016 2 minutes ago, Oversleep said: The whole point of this topic is to strip the magic of the focus, source and it's end-variable. It doesn't matter in this analysis. There are some magic systems with strong internal cohesion and then there are some which have very little (Allomancy) or none at all (AonDor). That is, if we look at the effects. Also, if anyone wants to discuss about Roshar's Focus, there is a nice thread I made a while ago. I understood what you meant Oversleep and I think Allomancy is actually with little cohesion but the Selish's One are quite a Special case. The Sel's Magic System allow every user to Program the Dor, the different regional Sub-Magic Systems are only more specializated in doing it. AonDor may be saw as the same of SoulForgery.... But on the Physical, as SoulForgery allows you to rewrite the Spiritual, AonDor allows you to rewrite the Physical. PS: Sorry for the previous divergence about the Focus in my previous post
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