Hierocracy and Stormlight

[Lightspine]

I have a theory that I believe is new about the Hierocracy and how stormlight ties into the story. The theory about the Hierocracy arose when I noticed a discrepancy in Dalinar's visions. In them, Honor shows Dalinar the Radiants, the Recreance, and a few of the ancient threats: the Midnight Essence and Thunderclasts. But, he doesn't show Dalinar the Voidbringers. The Voidbringers were likely the largest threat to humanity, as they were remembered while other threats, such as Thunderclasts and especially the Midnight Essence, were forgotten. It seemed baffling at first that Honor would leave them out of the visions. (This is a discrepancy that I want to fix with my theory. If you disagree with my theory, that's fine, but I want you to fix this another way)

There seemed to only be one reason why Honor would leave out the Voidbringers, and it's that he expected them to be remembered much better than they were. He believed that the modern Rosharians would know that the Parshmen were Voidbringers. However, he knew that information would be lost, which was why he made the visions. I can't bring up the quote, but in the final vision to Dalinar in WoK Honor makes it plain that he knows the Rosharians had began fighting among themselves, and they's forgotten who the real enemy is. Honor had anticipated this. What type of event could have caused information to be lost much quiker than expected?... oh wait. I believe that Odium brought the Hierocracy to foil Honor's preparations. Odium is likely able to whisper into people's minds, and could have used this power to make the priests take over. He guided them to destroy and change information about the Shadowdays. He also made them alter the Vorin philosophies. The one time these Philosophies have been analyzed in detail is after Jasnah kills the 4 thugs in the alley, and asks Shallan to decide if it was justified. Shallan lists the Philosophies, and explains how all of them in some way support the notion that one can perform ill deeds if they have good intentions. The Vorin teachings seem to be the exact opposite of the philosphies of the Knights Radiant.

I'd now like to tie in stormlight to all this. It seems and odd choice for Honor. The Stormfather is a cognitive shadow of Honor (I think that was a WoB), so it seems that Honor's dying act was to perpetually distribute stormlight throughout the land. However, that may serve a purpose. On Scadrial, Ruin couldn't see metal, because it was a focus for energy. It might not be far fetched to say that Odium cannot see or influence things with Stormlight. By distributing it to the people of Roshar, Honor may have shielded them from Odium's influence. This was likely not enough, gemstones to hold stormlight were probably uncommon immediately after the Shadowdays, seeing how destitute the people seemed after Aharietiam. It seems unlikely that they were used as currency that far back. My theory is that Sunmaker was the one who introduced that. Perhaps he was an agent of Cultivation, and she used him to end the Hierocracy and make gemstones so widespread nothing like it could happen again.

[antgrgmn he/him]

I think that this is a great theory. It is further supported by Hoid using the word "Coin" in both the SA books. The Priests might have very well used Coins as the currency back then, and so that would give Hoid a word to say to the Rosharans he was talking to. They would have still been confused, but it would be a Rosharan word. Overall, great idea.

[Jondesu he/him]

I like the idea of Odium being behind the Hierocracy. One note, though: the Stormfather is not just Honor's cognitive shadow, and the highstorms existed before Honor's death.

 

jW

[Lightspine]

4 hours ago, Jondesu said:

I like the idea of Odium being behind the Hierocracy. One note, though: the Stormfather is not just Honor's cognitive shadow, and the highstorms existed before Honor's death.

 

jW

Thanks for the correction!

I also forgot to point out that stormlight being the power source for the Heralds and Radiants also makes sense. Honor made his Heralds completely immune to Odium's influence, and the spren copied him and made his knights the same.

[AndrolGenhald]

On 6/16/2016 at 1:02 PM, Lightspine said:

all of them in some way support the notion that one can perform ill deeds if they have good intentions

I don't think Jasnah believed that what she was doing was wrong; she put herself in a position where she could be harmed, but she didn't make the first move. I'd say what she did was closer to entrapment than it was to murder. There's a difference between doing something you believe to be wrong because you also believe the world will be better off, and doing something you believe to be right, even if it was in fact wrong. Personally I think what she did was at worst morally ambiguous and at best perfectly acceptable. I wouldn't call it an "ill deed", and I doubt that Jasnah would see it that way.

On 6/16/2016 at 1:02 PM, Lightspine said:

The Vorin teachings seem to be the exact opposite of the philosphies of the Knights Radiant.

I think it's important to point out that the Radiant Orders had very significant disagreements (e.g. Windrunners and Skybreakers), if there is a way to judge if a philosophy aligns with or opposes the Radiants as a whole it would have to be by comparing it to the First Ideal.

Shallan mentions the Philosophies of Starkness, Purpose, Ideals and Aspiration.

• Starkness: Kill or be killed; very abstract, not necessarily opposed to the First Ideal
• Purpose: Actions are neither good nor evil, it is intent that matters; this one could go either way depending on how you look at it, I think we'd need more information to say for sure
• Ideals: Removing evil is moral; again, not opposed to the First Ideal
• Aspiration: If the goal is worthy, the steps taken are worthwhile; this sounds very opposite to "journey before destination"

So only the Philosophies of Aspiration and perhaps Purpose conflict with the First Ideal, but do we even know if these philosophies are tied to Vorinism? Shallan doesn't mention the church at all in that section; I always had the impression that these were major philosophical theories that were unrelated to the church.

On 6/16/2016 at 1:02 PM, Lightspine said:

Odium is likely able to whisper into people's minds, and could have used this power to make the priests take over.

I believe there's a WoB stating that Odium influenced Shallan's mother, so this is definitely a possibility.

On 6/16/2016 at 1:02 PM, Lightspine said:

It might not be far fetched to say that Odium cannot see or influence things with Stormlight.

I like this idea, but Ruin only had trouble with the metal itself, if Odium had the same issue, it wouldn't hinder him all that much. Perhaps the Shards have trouble seeing anything illuminated by Stormlight?

[Lightspine]

Thanks for the input! I appreciate you explaining the philosophies, I wrote my post based almost entirely on memory. I agree that not all of them conflict with the first ideal, but ones following it are suspiciously lacking. I just assumed they were Vorin as well. It wasn't a far fetched assumption, but I thought there was evidence behind it, thanks for clarifying there isn't. And also for clarifying that bit about the stormlight.

Edited June 18, 2016 by Lightspine

[SweetLift she/her]

I like a lot of what you say here. I do not remember all of the visions but I do remember that in the one with Midnight Essence, there was not stormlight. Dalinar notices the flickering flames and wonders about it being inefficient.  Not sure if that is really helpful, but it proves that stormlight was not around (in the third epic, not sure when that is in reference to the current year).

I did think that the Storm Father was a splinter of Honor, is that the same thing as a cognitive shadow? I will have to 

[Lightspine]

35 minutes ago, SweetLift said:

I did think that the Storm Father was a splinter of Honor, is that the same thing as a cognitive shadow? I will have to 

Not exactly the same. A cognitive shadow is sort of like the cosmere version of a ghost, a spirit that stays in the cognitive realm instead of moving on to the Great Beyond. Splinters are small pieces of a Shard's energy (but is different from investure, splinters are more a part of the shard. On Nalthis, for example, Divine breaths are splinters but normal breaths are a form of investure). Spren are splinters.