On Re-Reading WoK and WoR After One Year

[Stormfather-in-Law]

So, I haven't logged in or posted for some time. This is not for lack of desire - I read eagerly after WoR was released, but gradually felt like although some posts were just speculation, some of them might be coming uncomfortably close to divining the truth about many of the Cosmere's secrets. And I decided that, i'd rather RAFO than read it here, so I drifted away...

 

So,after learning of the existence of and reading through Kelsier's tale a couple times, cackling through it as secrets wondrous were revealed (it was hard not to come here and read more enlightened views), I suddenly felt motivated for a re-read of the Way of Kings and Words of Radiance. This was my fourth and third time through each, respectively.

 

I'm explaining the above because my knowledge and observations here may be as a child compared with the rest of the scholars here. And everything I write below may already have been discussed here - I wouldn't know. I doubt anything I say will be a revelation to you. That said, I still feel like sharing after my latest readthrough.

 

First, the Way of Kings is a masterpiece. I felt this way before, but it has stood the test of time and multiple readings for me, the way few books have. Like LoTR, reading it again always brings new things to light and it is hard to put down despite my familiarity. I can have no higher praise. I can find momentary interests and page-turning reads, but ultimately these are as broth, my meat is Sanderson. So be it, off to refresh stormlight 3 completeness to see if it moves from 52% to 53%, but first some observations I had during my read, in no particular order:

• Spren like other means of investiture inhabit those who are broken, they seep into the cracks. The broken-ness of many of the characters is obvious. Except Jasnah. How is she broken? She's the most together person on the planet. But she was one of the earliest. An oddity I hope to RAFO more about soon.
• Speaking of early, the spren first came to, by my mental count: Shallan, a stretch of time, then Gavilar, Jasnah, then Kaladin. I could be off in my timeline, I didn't take notes but it's my impression. The rest I know of (Gaz, Elhokar, etc.) are more murky but recent. The big question: why Shallan so early? Was she the only damaged person on the planet? Clearly not. What did the Cryptics see in her? 
• I may have posted this in the past, but I still don't get it: how does Gavilar tell Taravangian, Amaram, and random Parshendi he just met about his greatest secrets, but not Jasnah or especially Dalinar? I still can't wait to RAFO about this.
• The "dawnsingers" are supposed to be the reason why the dawncities formed the way they did, seen as a benefit to mankind. But, combined with Cymatics, Dalinar's dream of Kholinar dissolving and the mention of sound as a weapon...it seems to me that what today is known as the dawncities rose from the effects of a weapon used on them, and dawnsinging may in fact be quite hazardous.
• The future Jasnah will be a force to be reckoned with in the Cosmere. Everyone gets 2 frustratingly cryptic minutes with Hoid, yet one of the greatest minds in Roshar gets a week to pick his brain? Awareness will flow and I think Jasnah will not stay home forever.
• Zahel, as someone who is Cosmere-aware enough to travel the Cosmere, must know something as well about what's happening to the Cosmere planets, or at least the one he's on. Storms, how does he lie around taking a nap while the Everstorm brews over his head?
• I'm sure the observation has been made that radiant-ness and family seem to go together. Lirin and Hesina are strong characters in their own right, and as we leave book 2, Kaladin is going to them. Will his father and mother have found a way to use those spheres? Surely they've "cracked" by now...

Edited May 19, 2016 by Stormfather-in-Law

[Argent]

 

I'm explaining the above because my knowledge and observations here may be as a child compared with the rest of the scholars here. And everything I write below may already have been discussed here - I wouldn't know. I doubt anything I say will be a revelation to you. That said, I still feel like sharing after my latest readthrough.

 

Contrary to the popular belief most people are not born with a head full of Cosmere factoids. Don't be afraid to share your thoughts, I've seen a theory or two come from people who new to the forums - those of us who have lurked here for years sometimes have a hard time looking at things with fresh eyes

 

This being said, I can answer, or at least comment on, a few of your questions:

 

 

• Spren like other means of investiture inhabit those who are broken, they seep into the cracks. The broken-ness of many of the characters is obvious. Except Jasnah. How is she broken? She's the most together person on the planet. But she was one of the earliest. An oddity I hope to RAFO more about soon

 

Many of us believe Jasnah has experienced a traumatic event in the past, something involving men, possibly of the rogue-ish persuasion. If you reread the scene where she Soulcasts her would-be assailants into fire, it sounds like she is addressing an issue that's bigger than a few ruffians planning a robbery. She sounds... vengeful.

 

 

• Speaking of early, the spren first came to, by my mental count: Shallan, a stretch of time, then Gavilar, Jasnah, then Kaladin. I could be off in my timeline, I didn't take notes but it's my impression. The rest I know of (Gaz, Elhokar, etc.) are more murky but recent. The big question: why Shallan so early? Was she the only damaged person on the planet? Clearly not. What did the Cryptics see in her? 

 

Neither Gaz nor Elhokar have a (confirmed) spren. Many people believe Elhokar has seen Cryptics, but we have no hard confirmation. Maybe you are thinking of Lopen and the rest of Bridge Four? They too don't have spren of their own, but their status of Radiant squires (Squire Radiants? Squires to a Knight Radiant?) gives them some access to Investiture. We don't know much about what powers they wield, or how exactly they get them, but it's likely that it has something to do with forming (Spiritual) Connections with a Knight Radiant. 

 

So why did Shallan attract the attention of a Cryptic so early - not only in the timeline, but in age too? We don't know yet. 

 

 

• Zahel, as someone who is Cosmere-aware enough to travel the Cosmere, must know something as well about what's happening to the Cosmere planets, or at least the one he's on. Storms, how does he lie around taking a nap while the Everstorm brews over his head?

 

Have you read Warbreaker?

[Lightspine]

 

 

• The "dawnsingers" are supposed to be the reason why the dawncities formed the way they did, seen as a benefit to mankind. But, combined with Cymatics, Dalinar's dream of Kholinar dissolving and the mention of sound as a weapon...it seems to me that what today is known as the dawncities rose from the effects of a weapon used on them, and dawnsinging may in fact be quite hazardous.

 

The best known example of this I can think of (though it hasn't been related to the dawnsingers) is the shattering of Stormseat. With the exception of the Oathgate, it is completely symmetrical, so I believe it could be similar to the formation of the Dawncities, except on a much larger scale. The reason why I say it's the best known is because, unlike the other cities, there is a Listener chant about it: 

 

"They blame our people

For the loss of that land

The city that once covered it

Did range the eastern strand

The power made known in the tomes of our clan

Our gods were not who shattered these plains"

- 55th stanza, The Listener Song of Wars

 

If the power that shattered the plains was the same that created the dawncities, there is much information that can be deciphered (though not by me, I'm not terribly good at that). I'll just point out the obvious fact: the Listeners have the power, independent of their gods, (the voidspren) to shatter plains like this. This now fits in with a theory I've read which is that the Listeners were the dawnsingers (the "singer" part of that name seems to match with this"). 

 

I said I'd only point out the obvious stuff, since I'm bad at deciphering, but my bad deciphering has led to some theories that u good detectives will probably frown at, but here goes: The listeners say in their songs that the spren betrayed them, which is why they turned to the voidspren and bonded with them. That means that perhaps, at one point the Listeners were bonded to spren from Honor. In these forms, they were the dawnsingers and created the ancient cities. After or during Aharietiam, they abandoned the voidspren. This means that perhaps, they had a chance to bond with the spren from Honor, and used that power to shatter Stormseat. That fits, since Stormseat was said to be destroyed during Aharietiam. The big hole in this theory is obvious though. If the Listeners took up Honor's spren and used their power to shatter the plains, why do they no longer have that power? See, my theories suck...

Edited May 19, 2016 by Lightspine

[soulcastJam]

See, my theories suck...

With a recommendation like that who wouldn't agree with your theory?

[Lightspine]

With a recommendation like that who wouldn't agree with your theory?

??What do you mean by "recommendation"??

[DSC01]

• I may have posted this in the past, but I still don't get it: how does Gavilar tell Taravangian, Amaram, and random Parshendi he just met about his greatest secrets, but not Jasnah or especially Dalinar? I still can't wait to RAFO about this.

 

Why not Jasnah? Because she's his daughter, and maybe you don't share your premonitions about the end of the world with your daughter. Because she's a heretic and an atheist, and, his theories being somewhat religious in nature, he doesn't fancy having her scoff at them. Because she's a woman, and the cultural segregation of duties means that he doesn't want to talk her about the fact that Amaram et al have been turning glyphs into a real alphabet as a part of their secret investigations into the Desolations and such. There could be more reasons, besides.

 

Why not Dalinar? That's much more straightforward. The Dalinar we know from The Stormlight Archive so far is not the Dalinar that Gavilar knew. He wasn't terribly sophisticated, had little interest in honor and the Codes, etc. 

 

My personal suspicion is that we will eventually discover that, while Gavilar's last days inspired Dalinar to become the man we know, he was not so honorable as Dalinar believes. I suspect that Gavilar's motivation for adhering to the Codes was more like something that would motivate Amaram than something that would motivate Dalinar. Although we don't yet really know what exactly is going on, it seems like there are a number of secret societies on Roshar who are trying to prepare for a Desolation, doing so in completely the wrong ways, and I bet that Gavilar was in the same boat.

[TwistedMisting]

As far as I can tell Gavilar was part of some kind of secret society. Possibly the same one that Amaram is part of. Maybe this organisation also included Taravangian (although I believe his work based around the Diagram is independent and not known of by Gavilar or any other associates) Dalinar and Jasnah were  not part of this organisation and both of them have tried to stop the everstorm from coming, while Gavilar and Amaram were trying to cause a new desolation.

[Argel]

Pretty sure Amaram and T were all part of the same organization, and that The Diagram was created after Gavillar's death. Not sure if we know how closely everyong is working together now though. Maybe Gavilar is what kept that group together, much like how he kept Dalinar and Sadeas from fight