Nyali Posted May 18, 2016 Report Share Posted May 18, 2016 (Sorry if this has been brought up before, but I couldn't find it in a search) We know that in the Cognitive Realm of Scadrial, the cognitive representations of everything in the physical realm appear as wisps of mist. In the Cognitive Realm of Roshar, they appear as spheres. So, what about the other worlds? I imagine the Cognitive Realm of Nalthis as a vast field of flowers, with each flower being a cognitive representation of a physical being or object. The landmasses would be vast seas of flowers, deep enough to drown in, with the waters appearing as forests where the flowers of fish bloom. Taldain, I assume would just be a desert, with each grain of sand a cognitive representation, the landmasses appearing as seas of loose sand, and any water as bare beaches with bits of sand littering them. What about Sel? What would it look like? I can't imagine what the Cognitive Realm of Sel would look like. I mean, apart from the giant Dor Storm. But, before the Splintering of Devotion and Dominion, what would the Cognitive Realm look like there? And Threnody? I can't imagine at all either... (I haven't read Sixth of the Dusk yet, so I can't say anything about First of the Sun, and I haven't read the Silence Divine, so I can't say anything about Ashyn either. Nor about Braize, Vax, or Yolen.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondesu Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 There's some good speculation in this thread: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/54349-cognitive-realm-on-sel/#entry441870 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landis963 Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 (Sorry if this has been brought up before, but I couldn't find it in a search) We know that in the Cognitive Realm of Scadrial, the cognitive representations of everything in the physical realm appear as wisps of mist. In the Cognitive Realm of Roshar, they appear as spheres. So, what about the other worlds? I imagine the Cognitive Realm of Nalthis as a vast field of flowers, with each flower being a cognitive representation of a physical being or object. The landmasses would be vast seas of flowers, deep enough to drown in, with the waters appearing as forests where the flowers of fish bloom. Taldain, I assume would just be a desert, with each grain of sand a cognitive representation, the landmasses appearing as seas of loose sand, and any water as bare beaches with bits of sand littering them. What about Sel? What would it look like? I can't imagine what the Cognitive Realm of Sel would look like. I mean, apart from the giant Dor Storm. But, before the Splintering of Devotion and Dominion, what would the Cognitive Realm look like there? And Threnody? I can't imagine at all either... (I haven't read Sixth of the Dusk yet, so I can't say anything about First of the Sun, and I haven't read the Silence Divine, so I can't say anything about Ashyn either. Nor about Braize, Vax, or Yolen.) As mentioned in the linked thread (by yours truly), Lightsong remembered Nalthis' Cognitive Realm a few moments before his heroic sacrifice. It was a brilliant wave of colors. In addition, physical realm bodies of water are always raised sections of land in the cognitive. The problem with predicting Cognitive Realm geography is that there seems to be no real pattern. Is it the most commonly available form of Investiture, as with Roshar's spheres and Nalthis' colors? Then why isn't Scadrial's Cognitive Realm built of metal? Is it the most powerful Physical form of Investiture on that planet? Then why isn't Roshar's Cognitive Realm engulfed in a constant highstorm? I guess it could be "the key to unlocking Investiture already present in the Physical Realm," which fits with Stormlight collecting in spheres and Breath being used with a loss of color, and arguably even with Scadrial's mists (which are physically present and not the doorways to Investiture like the metals are). In that vein, then, Taldain could either be a giant sand pit (which doesn't seem unique enough to my mind, and doesn't take into account what Darkside's magic system is if anything) or an actual ocean (given that Sand Mastery drains water from the practitioner). Pre-Splintering Sel is in such a murky period of Cognitive Realm history that we have literally nothing on it, and all the minor shardworlds are in a similar predicament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 Well, when you think about it, the metal is often not the investiture source itself, but just the substance that shapes the investiture into its specific forms, similar to the commands in awakening and the geographic shapes involved in every magic on Sel ever. Ignoring god metals, of course. The form of raw power on Scadrial generally manifests as mist. The Mists themselves being the obvious example, and Ruin appears to create black smoke while trapped in the Well. Power seems to leak out of people carrying vast amounts of investiture as mist as well. Now the most obvious form of investiture in awakening is the breath itself, but that stuff always seems to just sit in the object, at most draining imperceptibly slowly if it does at all. Yet there is always the net color loss. The reason behind that has yet to be explained, though another similar cause of color loss happens to be spiritweb severing inflicted by shardblade. There may be something to it, perhaps? So we're left with Roshar being the strangest case we've seen. Then again, almost everything about Roshar is exceptionally peculiar. Bears the touch and design of Adonalsium, it is said . . . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyali Posted May 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 I forgot that about Nalthis. But, that makes little sense to me... isn't color just a catalyst in Awakening, exactly like metal on Scadrial? I'd expect the equivalent of the mists to be flowers, not colors... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 Didn't the special dyes come from from flowers in a special location (presumably Endowments shardpool). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyali Posted May 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 Didn't the special dyes come from from flowers in a special location (presumably Endowments shardpool). Yeah, that's why I was saying flowers for Nalthis. The best colors come from the god flowers, just like the best allomancy comes from the god metals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 I forgot that about Nalthis. But, that makes little sense to me... isn't color just a catalyst in Awakening, exactly like metal on Scadrial? I'd expect the equivalent of the mists to be flowers, not colors... Except with awakening the color itself is completely unimportant as long as it exists, while the form of metal matters in directing the power. It depends on how you classify it I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainRyan Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 Not to be nitpicky but I think this thread belongs in the "Cosmere Theories" forum. On topic - I always assumed that the Cognitive realm was more "fluid" in inhabited areas because there is such a concentrated mass of cognitive activity going on. Also, while writing that sentence I realized that doesn't make sense for uninhabited areas (deep mountain ranges, polar caps etc.) But! While writing that sentence I wondered if, perhaps, the reason land is "fluid" in the Cognitive Realm is because land can be modified quite readily by people and/or events. Farming, terraforming, earthquakes, volcano eruptions, erosion etc. are constantly causing the land to change in small but inexorable way. Water, on the other hand, is actually quite static no? Tides and seasonal melts etc. are predictable - one might even say they are "constants". So, in the Cognitive Realm water is solid because it does not change - its form in the Physical Realm is static. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Not to be nitpicky but I think this thread belongs in the "Cosmere Theories" forum. On topic - I always assumed that the Cognitive realm was more "fluid" in inhabited areas because there is such a concentrated mass of cognitive activity going on. Also, while writing that sentence I realized that doesn't make sense for uninhabited areas (deep mountain ranges, polar caps etc.) But! While writing that sentence I wondered if, perhaps, the reason land is "fluid" in the Cognitive Realm is because land can be modified quite readily by people and/or events. Farming, terraforming, earthquakes, volcano eruptions, erosion etc. are constantly causing the land to change in small but inexorable way. Water, on the other hand, is actually quite static no? Tides and seasonal melts etc. are predictable - one might even say they are "constants". So, in the Cognitive Realm water is solid because it does not change - its form in the Physical Realm is static. The earth below the water affects the water. So all those volcanoes and earthquakes you mentioned for land, apply for water. You get tsunamis, new islands, etc. So the water isn't actually quite static. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 The earth below the water affects the water. So all those volcanoes and earthquakes you mentioned for land, apply for water. You get tsunamis, new islands, etc. So the water isn't actually quite static. Perhaps not, but people perceive it that way. It's not about what is, it's about what people think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Perhaps not, but people perceive it that way. It's not about what is, it's about what people think. Deep sea fishermen and sailors for oceanic trade would disagree with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhoof Posted May 21, 2016 Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 Ah, but do deep sea fishermen and sailors for oceanic trade really exist in any numbers in these worlds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landis963 Posted May 21, 2016 Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 And even if they did, are they a large enough section of the populace to alter how any given body of water looks in the Cognitive Realm? (Also of note: Kelsier could still find the solid canals of the Final Empire, even after they had been completely buried by the ash). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 Ah, but do deep sea fishermen and sailors for oceanic trade really exist in any numbers in these worlds? The elendel basin has a whole network of rivers that are used for transporting goods. It is used so often, that it was natural that the Vanishers used a barge to go up against the train tracks and steal the car. On the planet of Sixth of Dusk, it heavily dependent on boat travel. So there are just two examples of two planets where travel over water is important and regularly used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainRyan Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 (edited) The elendel basin has a whole network of rivers that are used for transporting goods. It is used so often, that it was natural that the Vanishers used a barge to go up against the train tracks and steal the car. On the planet of Sixth of Dusk, it heavily dependent on boat travel. So there are just two examples of two planets where travel over water is important and regularly used. IIRC, we also have not seen the Cognitive Realm in either of these cases so it is possible that the Cognitive Realm IS different in these scenarios. Edited May 25, 2016 by CaptainRyan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 IIRC, we also have not seen the Cognitive Realm in either of these cases so it is possible that the Cognitive Realm IS different in these scenarios. Exactly. We plain and simple just do not have enough information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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