4/4/16 - krystalynn03 - Roamwald: C7-9 (5303)

[krystalynn03 she/her]

Notes
 

My apologies for going over a bit. I've managed to slim it down by 700 words, but it's still 300 over. I didn't want to stop at the end of eight and drag out the fantasy element one more week, so I hope you'll pardon a little overage.
 

Honestly, this whole bit makes me pretty nervous. It's the Rivendell point as my friends like to call it in books. After chapter nine and the reveal of the nature of the Snatcher, you're either in for the ride or you're out for good.

 

For This Update:

• I've changed the ending of chapter 9 multiple times and I'm not sure I like this one, either.
• I know Charlotte's bit in the kitchen is probably off, but I don't want to add more and make that sequence longer because it doesn't add to the overarching plot. Can I get away with her mother not interfering and just onlooking?
• Anybody do some real life bushcraft? Looking up pictures of snares and looking at them in books isn't the same as really setting them, so if someone's got insight, that'd be really useful. I don't know anyone personally who does that stuff.
• There are some reactions and blocking in 9 that are weak, but I want to see what stands out to folks before futzing around with them any more.
• Anything else that's off?

Edited April 12, 2016 by krystalynn03

[aeromancer he/him]

The ending's works very well, as does the very passive-aggressive relationship between the families.

[Kammererite]

I enjoyed this.

 

Small thing, the omission of Granny in front of all Jane instances in narrative made me think their was another Jane. 

 

Graves: Why are there graves here and not on the planes. Shouldn't they have the year snatches on them. And if they left immediately why would there people be buried by the house, and not with the village folk. (Grandpa Teal i understand.) 

 

Snares: I am not a hunter but i do have friends that do. Simplest snare is a drag snares which is just a loops of cord you place on game trails animal runs through pulls wire tight and chokes the animal.

i think your using something called a balance pole snare.

 

Boot falling off. This seams unlikely to me in this kind of time period. Where are her snow shoes?

 

The pacing of ch. 8 was good and i liked the tension/ drive of Jennie. 

 

I'm definitely getting a BFG flash back here. So far i am enjoying the story. I am still not sure what the plot/major conflict will be. I imagine it will have to do with an unlike friendship between Jennie and Roamwald but i am getting the feeling that it might be kicking of to late. i guess ill see in the next submission.

 

As for Charlotte in the kitchen, i was fine with it, or just giver her some of the mothers lines.

 

Cheers

[spieles]

I am also enjoying this. My large comment is that this doesn't read as adult historical fantasy to me - but rather, clearly in the category of wonderfully dark middle grade. As Kammerite said, it's reminding me of BFG. With the nasty extended family, I'm getting clear Roald Dahl vibes. 

 

More than anything, though, that affects my take on chapter 9. As the "Rivendell" chapter of a middle grade novel - I think it's spot on, but if it's an adult novel... I'd have a different set of expectations. I'm not even sure what those would be. Something more savage and crueler. He would definitely not take her home unscathed.

 

Answers to questions:

• I've changed the ending of chapter 9 multiple times and I'm not sure I like this one, either. 
  I want to read chapter 10 before I really have a reaction to 9. My one thought is that after Roamwald's anxiety in chapter 1 - there should be more tension about the fact that Jennie can't tell anyone. And then he can promise not to hurt anyone, etc. 
• I know Charlotte's bit in the kitchen is probably off, but I don't want to add more and make that sequence longer because it doesn't add to the overarching plot. Can I get away with her mother not interfering and just onlooking?
  You can definitely get away with that. The current exchange does characterize the mother, of course - so it depends on what you're planning on doing with her character later on. Though I could see the mother not saying anything because she's too strung out on her own issues.
• There are some reactions and blocking in 9 that are weak, but I want to see what stands out to folks before futzing around with them any more.
  I think the tension might diffuse a little too early in the scene. I think you could make Roamwald uglier and scarier - and it would be GREAT. Right now he just seems glum and lonely whereas I think he'd be more flustered and wondering how the bejeezus he got himself in this situation. The walk home seem to drag the most for me. 
• Anything else that's off?
  The drool line at the start of chapter 7 pulled me out of the story - especially since she's undernourished - I imagine her mouth would be dry. I think just saying her mouth watering would be sufficient.
• I liked the bit with her cousin being awful.
  I'm curious about why her Uncle Theo's prosperity is so much greater than her father's - her uncle doesn't seem like the most industrious fellow. Is the land simply better?
• The grandmother's talk as a "story" seemed a bit unnatural. Especially for such an emotional topic. I'd assume she'd have more stops and starts with giving away information. And Jennie is so curious, she'd just pry it out of her.

I hope that helps!

Edited April 13, 2016 by spieles

[Shadowfax]

Comments as I read:

 

“Jennie was able to busy herself” – Jennie busied herself. Or something else a little less passive.

 

“as soon as food hit their plates t, but” – extra t in there

 

“Shut pan already.” – this seems oddly out of place. We haven’t seen it used before but we’ve seen other sayings that resemble this and so this feels like it isn’t part of the dialect we’ve seen previously.

 

“I haven’t the foggiest.” – While this isn’t an entirely contemporary phrase, it feels like it is in this setting you’ve created. At least to me it does. It throws me a bit from the narrative and sent me off to look up the phrase and time frame for it. I'm probably being picky lol But, it stuck at me, so I commented.

 

As a side note, it feels like the dialect has all but disappeared as soon as they set down to have dinner with their more affluent family members. I can’t tell if they’re trying to fit in better, trying to impress, or what, but now everyone is speaking the same and so it’s harder to tell there’s a socio-economic difference between these family units.

 

“These old bones just don’t bend right anymore,” – Because bones don’t bend. Perhaps a statement about her joints?

 

“Jane said and linked her arm with Jennie’s” – did I miss a description of the height of these two? Jennie is 10 and Jane is full grown. I’m 5’2” and still have trouble linking arms with people taller than me and walking in unison with them, so this is hard for me to picture.

 

“But Jane steered them uphill” – don’t need the “but”

 

I’m having a very difficult time all of a sudden picturing Jane as an old, frail woman. Jennie is only 10, but was old enough to retain memories of burying her grandfather in 1874. She should have been 5 or 6 for that, 4 if you really sell her memory-making capabilities (and they would need to be REALLY sold). He was 38 when he died, which means early 30s when Jennie was born. Jane’s older brother was only 8 years older than Alfred, so at earliest Jane was born in 1829 and it’s probably now around 1880 which makes her ~51 (younger if there’s larger than a one year gap between her and her brother).  For me, 51 is hardly a frail old woman, so if she is really this young, perhaps we can have some context for why she’s so old and frail looking?

 

“fiancé” – this is the male version. Females get an extra e at the end.

 

“everyone had eaten well again at supper, too.” – it wasn’t supper they ate at Jane’s house? <confused>

 

“None of the snares were too far or too deep into the woods. The jump traps were, but she decided not to go that far.” Instead of telling us where things are not, it’s easier just to tell us where they are.

 

“a tulip tree” – I had to actually look this up. Woo, I learned something new I literally tried to picture a tree with tulips hanging off it xD

I am curious how Jennie knows where the traps are supposed to be. Has her father taken her with him before? Somehow, I don’t see that happening, as he and Leon seem to try to keep her safe at home.

 

“The storm wouldn’t have changed the creek’s position, but it was deeper into the woods than she wanted to go.” – huh? Of course a storm can’t change a creek’s position, but what does that have to do with how deep into the woods it was? These 2 halves of the sentence don’t go well together and you established earlier Jennie didn’t want to go deep into the woods.

 

“It was too rhythmic to be an accidental sound of the forest.” – forests have a lot of animals and animals are attuned to the rhythms of nature. Many insects have rhythmic sounds. It makes more sense for her to know that animals hibernate and borrow and that the sound doesn’t match animals known to her.

 

“She tried moving her head to look back over her shoulder.” – did she succeed? Did it move the ice more or not?

 

“She twisted her head and saw the huge hands were only a foot away now and they had stopped moving. They were so close that all she had to do was reach sideways and she’d reach them.” – You’re not going to convince me a 10 year old girl has a 12-inch reach while lying still, prone and half frozen. Also, are the hands 12 inches from the ice or her body? It’s unclear, which is what makes this hard to believe she could reach the hands.

 

“touched the palm” & “felt a very strong, if very slow, pulse” – nice. You’ve told me Snatcher physiology is different from human physiology, adding depth to the fantasy element.

 

“The pupils flashed wide in surprise followed by two quick blinks.” – this is so expressive, I can feel the conversation happening.

 

“Jennie Elisabeth Fullers, Born: 1873” – Nope. She was not a year old and making memories of a funeral that she would retain 9 years later with any clarity. We studied this a bit in my Early Childhood Development class (strange choice for a university elective, but it was fun lol). This is a good link for information regarding that: http://www.webmd.com/parenting/news/20110511/when-do-kids-form-their-first-memories

 

““Ach, bitte, please” – uh, the Snatchers speak German? I’m not sure if this confuses me, or makes me want to know why they speak German and how they learned English.

 

““You could call me Roamwald if you liked.”” – This disappointed me actually. For the last 8 chapters I’ve gone on the notion that Roamwald was the world and this was Jennie’s story about living in this world. Now we have a story named for a character we know nothing about but myths and legends and a main character with an as-yet tenuous connection to the name of the book. I’m not saying it’s bad, just that when I read this line I felt something akin to disappointment, in that now my brain is like, “I’ve just spent 8 chapters with Jennie and it’s not even her book. Why do I care about Jennie?” Questions like this are ok, so don’t take me wrong.

 

I didn’t comment last week cause I was on the road and settling in, but I actually missed Leon in these past few chapters. For me, he’s the only adult with any lick of sense in him. I have a hard time picturing him as a bad guy- more he’s the family member that everyone else paints as a bad guy and they’re all hell-bent on making me think their way.

 

Helene… I don’t believe in spanking children, but man I want to put that brat over my knee xD

There are a lot of family dynamics going on and it gets a little overwhelming, but as a reader I accept them because I assume these characters will all have roles to play. So, I hope this is the case.

 

The descriptions are good and strong, as in previous chapters, in regards to character interaction, etc. The setting is still very “fill-in-the-blanks” in some places. It reads as if you’re more comfortable describing the outdoors than anything indoors, so when we go through a door, we lose some of that descriptive flavor.

 

Based on the first chapter, I had already assumed Jennie would be rescued (once we saw her on the ice floe) and returned home by the Snatcher; none of this was shocking, a twist, or really changed anything I already had in my mind about the story. It would have more impact if either the first chapter was removed, or if it had a decidedly more sinister ambience. Chapter 1 for me was wistful, not frightening, and therefore the impact of seeing Jennie rescued by the Snatcher was non-existent. There was amazing tension when she was trapped on sinking ice, I truly felt scared for her, but as soon as the loud steps and strange sounds came, the tension was gone and even Jennie’s fear couldn’t replace it for me, since, as a reader having read chapter one, I knew she was fine.

 

I’m still in the keep reading boat and I can’t wait till your next submission. There are enough story questions for me to keep reading at this point and most of my read-through comments are just things that popped out at me and stuck with me.

[krystalynn03 she/her]

I wanted so badly to reply to these tonight bx you guys gave me such useful, insightful feedback, but I went to an aerial yoga class that literally made me sick. I'm still a little nauseated and my cell is all I can handle look at if I don't scroll around. Thanks so much for so many thoufhts to chew on and I'll comment back soon!

[Robinski he/him]

Chapter 7

 

I have some practical concerns about the old lady climbing up to the graveyard, but only because my mum is 90 and fell over recently breaking her foot, (now all healed). That aside, my other gripe in this chapter was not hearing the end of Leon’s thought about the exchange of the horse for the medicine. There was real good tension there but I feel I'm left hanging on that particular line.

 

Nice exchange between Jane and Jennie, culminating with the gift of the locket. I foresee fireworks when Charlotte lays eyes on that!! Maybe you won’t go there.

 

The wholesale snatching of the family at the wedding a bit melodramatic to me, I can see the logic in that they were all together, but it feels just like a tad like this happened for story reasons of dispatching many relatives at the one time, a bit too convenient.

 

Chapter 8

 

Good chapter, but there were some details that bothered me. Jennie talking out loud in the woods seemed unlikely, but I think I could go with it if she was muttering under her breath. The thought of her saying those things out loud however, really jarred for me. Second detail was the light levels and the lantern. I get that she needed it in the barn, but her taking it into the woods through me, because you were talking about shadows of trees, so I presumed it was daylight.

 

I mentioned cliché in, which was maybe harsh, but the Snatcher (presumably) rescuing Jennie puts me firmly in the territory that I mentioned earlier on in terms of story ark. It’s really well written with engaging characters, but my concern is that this is a pretty well-worn archetype, so my expectations are almost preset by the classic stories that have gone before. That said, even if I was put off (which I'm not), I would keep reading for the writing and the characters alone.

 

Chapter 9

 

Always a difficult thing to do, introducing the ‘big reveal’, especially of such a big character! I thought it worked pretty well, there were some nice details associated with his size and the mechanics of Jennie being up in the air. One or two notes to note, from me, the first image of the big hands coming out of the forest felt off to me. I pictured that looked something like a bad practical effects movie, big polystyrene hands on rollers that were green-screened out, or something like that. It didn’t feel dynamic, but rather ponderous.

 

At the end, Jennie seems more confident is his company, and yet she still stutters her name and he goes off with the wrong impression – that didn’t sit all that well for me. It seemed like she suddenly backslid into nervousness for the purposes of some misconception that will be plot-significant down the line.

 

Also, I struggled to not picture Merry and Pippin up in Treebeard’s branches – inevitable, I suppose.

 

Good chapter, but not my favourite.

[Shadowfax]

 

so I presumed it was daylight.

 

 

Uh, I also thought it was daylight and until Robinski pointed this out, never realized it was supposed to be nighttime. Out in the woods/on the ice floe she was seeing everything so clearly that it never occurred to me it was dark.

[Mandamon he/him]

Overall, I thought this was a good reveal.  Some detail missing on the snatcher, but aside from that good.  I did sort of have the same reaction as Robinksi to the hands appearing on their own.  As to the questions about family, I though the tension was good, and didn't see a need for anything added in the kitchen.  I'm with spieles that one brother's prosperity over the other seems very suspicions.

 

Oh, and totally missed that it was dark at the end of the submission.

 

 

Notes:

 

pg 4: Shut pan?

 

Helene is really a little snot.  Still not firm on why one family is suffering up in the woods with not enough to eat, while the other lives down at the river.  It makes for good drama while reading, but I can't help feeling I'm missing some explanation.

 

pg 7: So if her grandmother was Jennie's age, and they all lost their family, how old were the survivors?  Was this mountain town started by teenagers?

 

Some good information in chapter 7.  Good to get more information, firsthand, scant though it was.

 

Chapter 8: took me a moment to figure out that they were back at the woods.  Was this just a one day trip?  Seems like a lot of effort for it.

 

pg 12: not sure of the blocking here.  Is she just resting on ice on the river?  is she on an ice floe floating?  

 

pg 14: I think "Human" should be lowercase.

 

pg 20: Roamwald--Aha.

 

I thought these were good chapters, starting to get into the meat of the story.  I feel like I'm missing something in the description of Roamwald.  Jennie just says that he's big, and described hands larger than her.  If he's in proportion, that would put his hands about 5 ft long, that would put him somewhere over 50 feet tall.  I'm not sure this size person could even hide in a tall forest.  When she's lifted to a walking height, she would be 30-40 feet in the air, but I didn't get any description of the high altitude.  Most of the text was focused on his hands and face, but Jennie would have to have noticed the rest of him, including the clothes he was wearing.  We only get a description of blue sleeves.  And where do they manufacture clothes so big?

[Shadowfax]

 

pg 7: So if her grandmother was Jennie's age, and they all lost their family, how old were the survivors?  Was this mountain town started by teenagers?

 

​Oh good catch, and this question makes sense.

 

Chapter 8: took me a moment to figure out that they were back at the woods.  Was this just a one day trip?  Seems like a lot of effort for it.

 

​They're back at the woods? I missed this :/

 

pg 12: not sure of the blocking here.  Is she just resting on ice on the river?  is she on an ice floe floating?  

 

I got the impression she was on an ice floe in the middle of the river, somehow.

 

pg 14: I think "Human" should be lowercase.

 

I agree.

 

including the clothes he was wearing.  We only get a description of blue sleeves.  And where do they manufacture clothes so big?

 

​This is a good question! I didn't even think about it and chocked it up to "fantasy book", but some explanation at some point would help give us some idea of Snatcher civilization.

 

Edited April 14, 2016 by Shadowfax

[krystalynn03 she/her]

Please forgive me for not replying sooner--I'm still recovering from a stomach bug and meds that do a pretty good job making me drowsy. I hope to get back to work really soon!

[krystalynn03 she/her]

Kammererite,

 

… omission of Granny…

 

That’s an interesting problem. I’ve gotten the opposite reaction with some other names, like Theo, where the reader thought I was beating them over the head with the relationship title if I used it too often. I’m not sure what to do. :S

 

Graves: Why are there graves here and not on the planes. Shouldn't they have the year snatches on them. And if they left immediately why would there people be buried by the house, and not with the village folk. (Grandpa Teal i understand.) 

 

 The markers are a mix of people actually buried there (people who died in the valley) and markers to remember the people who were caught. I could amend (LOST) to the year they got Snatched, but I think that’s complicating a small detail. The LOST is to say that they don’t know when the person died. I’m not sure what you mean by the last bit about being buried by the house not with the village folk? The only grave markers for people who were Snatched are all relatives of Jane’s, and it wasn’t uncommon for family’s to have personal graveyards. If you drive around central Texas, you can still see personal graveyards way out in flat pastures, though there are plenty of town graveyards, too, dating both before and/or after those. It just depends. Not sure I’m addressing your confusion, though.

 

Boot falling off. This seams unlikely to me in this kind of time period. Where are her snow shoes?

 

 Snowshoes is a good point. I’m not sure about how to use/write them, though. I’ve always lived somewhere where if we get ½ inch of snow entire cities shut down… I struggle with the snow realism—I really do.

 

I'm definitely getting a BFG flash back here. So far i am enjoying the story. I am still not sure what the plot/major conflict will be. I imagine it will have to do with an unlike friendship between Jennie and Roamwald but i am getting the feeling that it might be kicking of to late. i guess ill see in the next submission.

 

 In almost every submission, I’ve mentioned my concerns about pacing, and I guess that’s what I really mean by pacing here—I ask the reader to take several turns. The book starts off seeming suspenseful (once I take C1 back out) and with a realistic historical backdrop where the monster in the woods seems to be the problem, then we find out that the monster is not really a monster, and then… well, it seems like the major conflict would be Jennie’s friendship with the ‘monster’ figure according to expectations of this trope of a story…but…well, I’ll not say more for now because I want to see how it reads without preloading expectations.

 

Thanks, Kammererite!

[krystalynn03 she/her]

Hey Spieles,

 

I am also enjoying this. My large comment is that this doesn't read as adult historical fantasy to me - but rather, clearly in the category of wonderfully dark middle grade. As Kammerite said, it's reminding me of BFG. With the nasty extended family, I'm getting clear Roald Dahl vibes. 

 

I’m glad you say that. That’s exactly what I want you to say. I’m shooting for a young audience, though I never let the words MG out of my mouth when I first submitted C1-3 because I wanted to see if the nature of the story conveyed and it didn’t fall into that category for people just because I said it was. I’m writing the book I wanted to read when I was ten. The first book I ever bought for myself (and I can say this now that the Snatcher ‘reveal’ has happened) was Gulliver’s Travels (kids version), and I remember begging my mom for 4 bucks so I could buy it from the school book fair. I read it so many times but was always disappointed that Gulliver didn’t do more stuff while he was in Lilliput.

• I want to read chapter 10 before I really have a reaction to 9. My one thought is that after Roamwald's anxiety in chapter 1 - there should be more tension about the fact that Jennie can't tell anyone. And then he can promise not to hurt anyone, etc. 
  • I’m going to rework some of 9 with the helpful feedback I’ve gotten this week, but I really think Chapter 10 is a mess. It’s 3 scenes strung together and I really need more alpha style edit than anything.

• As for Roamwald telling Jennie not to tell anyone—that’s a big no-no in my book. I’m working with a lot of archetypes and tropes in this kind of storyline and having him tell her not to tell anyone takes things into cliché zone (or more kindly ‘low hanging fruit’ zone) for me (imho). I can’t break away from the basic structure of the trope because the story is meant for a younger audience and it’s meant to be a simple story (though in many ways it’s really not). I am, however, going to give him some better dialogue that will hang a lampshade on that very idea, though, so that it both addresses your concern/expectation (as an insightful adult reader) but still keeps me from breaking a rule I’ve set for the character.

You can definitely get away with that. The current exchange does characterize the mother, of course - so it depends on what you're planning on doing with her character later on. Though I could see the mother not saying anything because she's too strung out on her own issues.

 

• Oh good, I didn’t really want to give her much dialogue because she’s not central to the plot, more of an explanation with Theo’s characters as to how Helene’s turned out to be such a brat

I think the tension might diffuse a little too early in the scene. I think you could make Roamwald uglier and scarier - and it would be GREAT. Right now he just seems glum and lonely whereas I think he'd be more flustered and wondering how the bejeezus he got himself in this situation. The walk home seem to drag the most for me. 

• This is a fantastic insight that I hadn’t thought of. First off, your reaction and that of several others has sealed the deal for me as far as keeping or cutting C1 goes. With C1 in there, it not only affects the reading of C2 (which bothered me but put no nails in the coffin), but the way it affects things here is much more important.
• I can make Roamwald scarier, but not uglier. I’m not getting his reactions rights—someone else used the idea of flustered, and I’m going to rework that in better. I can’t make Roamwald a flat out monster because he’s not, and I’ve already written four other books and the entire rest of his species as being giants, not monsters... There's a repeating motif about actions vs. nature...
• My concerns though are this: cutting out c1 so there’s no previous insight into Roamwald’s thoughts, if I cut too much here, it will make his motives harder to guess (not necessarily a bad thing) and it might throw readers for a loop later…not sure. In any case, you’re right, I kill the tension in this sequence way too soon, and I’m going to fix that ASAP. It will kept the tension on the rise if I keep the reader's understanding closer to Jennie's.

I'm curious about why her Uncle Theo's prosperity is so much greater than her father's - her uncle doesn't seem like the most industrious fellow. Is the land simply better?

• Here’s the inside story on this: Jane’s husband’s father was really the leader in putting together this expedition to escape east into the mountains. They were well-to-do before they got there, hence the house full of nicer things, and they had a lot of social pull with the rest of the townsfolk since forever. Theo has just inherited all these nice things, while Hanna went off and married Will, the son of a man that Hanna’s father didn’t care for (the father resembled Leon more than he resembled Will). She might not have gotten much of a dowry as a result, hence the difference.
• If it's worth the page space, I could put in a throwaway phrase to suggest this, maybe when they're bringing up old family spats, like the horse--especially since other readers mentioned they felt shortchanged that I didn't let the argument go on quite long enough.

And Jennie is so curious, she'd just pry it out of her.

• This is a brilliant insight. I’ll work on that.

I hope that helps!

• In so many ways!

[krystalynn03 she/her]

Hey Shadowfax,

Welcome back, and glad your move went well!

 

 “Shut pan already.” – this seems oddly out of place. We haven’t seen it used before

 

Actually, Uncle Leon said it in the update you were gone for, showing where Jennie picked it up. If it still bothers you, I can think about it, but I do kind of want it to stick out, in a good way, not a bad way, because it is very rude and contemporary to the era I’m evoking…

 

“I haven’t the foggiest.” … I'm probably being picky lol But, it stuck at me, so I commented.

 

I don’t think you’re being picky at all. The same thought flitted through my mind when I put it in, but I let it through, and now that it dinged someone else’s radar, I know I need to take it right back out!

 

As a side note, it feels like the dialect has all but disappeared as soon as they set down to have dinner with their more affluent family members. I can’t tell if they’re trying to fit in better, trying to impress, or what, but now everyone is speaking the same and so it’s harder to tell there’s a socio-economic difference between these family units.

 

You’re right, right, and right. I know the dialectal speech bothers some people, and I’d like to say, oh, I just changed it back to normal, but no, I did this by accident. I’ve always thought that the Teals spoke a little better because Great-Grandpa Teal was affluent back in the Commonwealth and the Fullers never were, so there’s a level of education passed down in the Teal house that’s not present in the Fullers’, but I’m just not pegging it well because I do the same thing in real life. If I speak with my Yankee mother or with my Rebel father, my friends can all life and tell me who I’ve been speaking to on the phone with lately. I’ve got to fix the dialogue here, and I’m not quite sure how. Thanks for noticing. You’re right that I’ve got it wrong.

 

I’m having a very difficult time all of a sudden picturing Jane as an old, frail woman. Jennie is only 10, but was old enough to retain memories of burying her grandfather in 1874. She should have been 5 or 6 for that, 4 if you really sell her memory-making capabilities (and they would need to be REALLY sold). He was 38 when he died, which means early 30s when Jennie was born. Jane’s older brother was only 8 years older than Alfred, so at earliest Jane was born in 1829 and it’s probably now around 1880 which makes her ~51 (younger if there’s larger than a one year gap between her and her brother).  For me, 51 is hardly a frail old woman, so if she is really this young, perhaps we can have some context for why she’s so old and frail looking?

 

 Alack! Alack! My hatred of math is discovered! I may make her great-granny Jane then…though I wouldn’t want to introduce anymore characters (meaning grandparents) and just have to ask the reader to accept without lengthy explanation that Jane somehow survived her own children…not sure… Actually, if Jane outsurvived Hanna/Theo's own parents and partly raised them herself, it might explain why Theo isn't better behaved, not having a male figure around to put a higher expectation on him. Hm. Not sure. Need to mull over. Either that, or Jane needs to act younger. A hard life does age people faster...plenty photo evidence of that, but what I've got in text isn't working...

 

 “a tulip tree” – I had to actually look this up. Woo, I learned something new  literally tried to picture a tree with tulips hanging off it xD

 

That might be too much work to ask of child reader…maybe I should pick a different tree?

 

I am curious how Jennie knows where the traps are supposed to be. Has her father taken her with him before? Somehow, I don’t see that happening, as he and Leon seem to try to keep her safe at home.

 

He does take her with him. That’s how she knows how he had them set up and that her attempts to set that first one back up are wrong. I don’t think Will ever tells Jennie no. She asks her mom and she asks Leon, but I don’t think she asks her father…

 

“Jennie Elisabeth Fullers, Born: 1873” – Nope.

 

 Alack! Alack! My hatred of math is further uncovered. Joking aside, I’ll fix the math. I’ve read this stuff dozens of times and never made a connection there to realize what I did. Thanks. I’ll fix that.

 

““Ach, bitte, please” – uh, the Snatchers speak German? I’m not sure if this confuses me, or makes me want to know why they speak German and how they learned English.

 

I’ll let Roamwald explain for himself in a few chapters...

 

 ““You could call me Roamwald if you liked.”” – This disappointed me actually. For the last 8 chapters I’ve gone on the notion that Roamwald was the world and this was Jennie’s story about living in this world. Now we have a story named for a character we know nothing about but myths and legends and a main character with an as-yet tenuous connection to the name of the book. I’m not saying it’s bad, just that when I read this line I felt something akin to disappointment, in that now my brain is like, “I’ve just spent 8 chapters with Jennie and it’s not even her book. Why do I care about Jennie?” Questions like this are ok, so don’t take me wrong.

 

 Hm. Well, it is her book… This is a curious reaction and I’m not entirely sure what to do with it other than connect it back to my concerns about overall pacing. It is Jennie’s book and Jennie’s story. She has a lot left to do in this book, and the entire book is just an opening for what’s going on in the rest of the world, which she wouldn’t know anything about if she hadn’t fallen onto an iced over river in this book and met Roamwald. (This statement is not technically true but explaining it would make spoilers for events 3 books later). I hope you’ll hang with the characters long enough to see that Jennie’s role is not less important because of Roamwald. All my books are heavy on relationships, which I hope is evident already with the attention I’ve put into the family dynamics and malfunctions, and the stress that this is going to create and where it goes will hopefully compensate your disappointment as it turns into something else. Maybe Roamwald's not a good title. It certainly isn't set in stone.

 

I didn’t comment last week cause I was on the road and settling in, but I actually missed Leon in these past few chapters. For me, he’s the only adult with any lick of sense in him. I have a hard time picturing him as a bad guy- more he’s the family member that everyone else paints as a bad guy and they’re all hell-bent on making me think their way.

 

I love this reaction. I’m glad somebody’s on Leon’s side. When I get opposing opinions of the same character both with good textual evidence, I know I’ve got the character written the way I want them!

 

Helene… I don’t believe in spanking children, but man I want to put that brat over my knee xD

 

Ha!

 

There are a lot of family dynamics going on and it gets a little overwhelming, but as a reader I accept them because I assume these characters will all have roles to play. So, I hope this is the case.

 

 Yes, every character I’ve brought out and every set piece has a purpose later, even some things I don’t think (???) anyone has caught because nobody has commented on them (which is good…I want them to be there and not be obvious until the book is nearly over)

 

The descriptions are good and strong, as in previous chapters, in regards to character interaction, etc. The setting is still very “fill-in-the-blanks” in some places. It reads as if you’re more comfortable describing the outdoors than anything indoors, so when we go through a door, we lose some of that descriptive flavor.

 

 This is a brain-flipping response. I hadn’t realized I was doing this, but you’re totally right. I think I know why I’m doing it (the outdoors is more important to the plot), but I don’t want to leave the reader feeling like they’re looking at characters against a blank backdrop every time they’re indoors. I’ll fix this!

 

Based on the first chapter, I had already assumed Jennie would be rescued (once we saw her on the ice floe) and returned home by the Snatcher; none of this was shocking, a twist, or really changed anything I already had in my mind about the story. It would have more impact if either the first chapter was removed, or if it had a decidedly more sinister ambience.

 

This is the clincher for me. When C1 just bothered people connecting to Jennie in C2, it was a bother, not a plot problem. Having it demolish all tension in C9, however, makes it a dire plot problem. Consider C1 cut.

 

Chapter 1 for me was wistful, not frightening, and therefore the impact of seeing Jennie rescued by the Snatcher was non-existent. There was amazing tension when she was trapped on sinking ice, I truly felt scared for her, but as soon as the loud steps and strange sounds came, the tension was gone and even Jennie’s fear couldn’t replace it for me, since, as a reader having read chapter one, I knew she was fine.

 

I’m killing C1 dead.

 

I’m still in the keep reading boat and I can’t wait till your next submission. There are enough story questions for me to keep reading at this point and most of my read-through comments are just things that popped out at me and stuck with me

 

Thank you for so many insights and useful critique!

[krystalynn03 she/her]

Hey Robinski!

 

Chapter 7

in this chapter was not hearing the end of Leon’s (Theo’s) thought about the exchange of the horse for the medicine. There was real good tension there but I feel I'm left hanging on that particular line.

 

 I think I’ve got an idea how to fix that by combining a response with something that clarifies some family history!

 

Nice exchange between Jane and Jennie, culminating with the gift of the locket. I foresee fireworks when Charlotte lays eyes on that!! Maybe you won’t go there.

 

 Huh. I hadn’t thought of that. In a previous iteration of this story, the locket was a bigger deal, and Helene threw a fit about it, but not in this version. Although, if I could make it more useful in a way that doesn’t slow overarching plot, I would.

 

The wholesale snatching of the family at the wedding a bit melodramatic to me, I can see the logic in that they were all together, but it feels just like a tad like this happened for story reasons of dispatching many relatives at the one time, a bit too convenient.

 

 Well, it doesn’t matter if it’s relatives getting Snatched or not. A bunch of Humans is a draw regardless of the occasion. If the wedding bit feels like melodrama, I can take it or leave it, it doesn’t affect the plot at all. They could be at trade days, a barn raising, a corn husking, quilting bee, whatever—as long as they’re out on the plains and not within the border guard of the Commonwealth, a highly fluctuating line of defense in that decade before War for Recognition came to an actual close…

 

Chapter 8

Good chapter, but there were some details that bothered me […] were talking about shadows of trees, so I presumed it was daylight.

 

 I will work on the light/dialogue.

 

I mentioned cliché in, which was maybe harsh, but the Snatcher (presumably) rescuing Jennie puts me firmly in the territory that I mentioned earlier on in terms of story ark. It’s really well written with engaging characters, but my concern is that this is a pretty well-worn archetype, so my expectations are almost preset by the classic stories that have gone before. That said, even if I was put off (which I'm not), I would keep reading for the writing and the characters alone.

 

 I knew from your alpha comments at the end of 5 that you were not going to be wholly pleased by 6-9. Given that, I hope you stick it out long enough to let Roamwald speak long enough for himself that he becomes the character I want him to be to you than rather than just an archetype (which he is until he can a chance to really talk). I was hoping to diffuse some of the archetype of the entire situation with the inclusion of C1, but C1 has taken such a toll on the suspense in so many places that I’m probably going to have to cut it and hope that readers bear with the entire story long enough to get past this bit.

 

Chapter 9

Always a difficult thing to do, introducing the ‘big reveal’, especially of such a big character!

I see what you did there.

 

I thought it worked pretty well, there were some nice details associated with his size and the mechanics of Jennie being up in the air. One or two notes to note, from me, the first image of the big hands coming out of the forest felt off to me. I pictured that looked something like a bad practical effects movie, big polystyrene hands on rollers that were green-screened out, or something like that. It didn’t feel dynamic, but rather ponderous.

 

 You know, I sensed a problem with that bit too, but I haven’t figured out how to fix it. I hope by distilling all the comments on that part (which I already felt pretty weak) I can make a breakthrough to doing it better somehow.

 

At the end, Jennie seems more confident is his company, and yet she still stutters her name and he goes off with the wrong impression – that didn’t sit all that well for me. It seemed like she suddenly backslid into nervousness for the purposes of some misconception that will be plot-significant down the line.

 

Naw. Her mispronunciation is not a plot point. I’m not pulling that one over on anybody, but I’m not changing her reaction, either. The reasons go beyond this book for that choice.

 

Good chapter, but not my favourite.

 

Yeah, I knew you were not going to be greatly pleased. Even so, you gave me great feedback and lots of really useful in-line stuff, too, which I can now slowly start addressing without anti-nausea meds in my system (but not before I work on Waifs & Strays!)

[Robinski he/him]

Wow, you must be feeling better, those are some meaty responses!

It's always interesting to re-evaluate one's comments in the wake of the response. I feel that I overreacted about the wedding. I wouldn't like to see it taken out, as the exchange between Granny Jane and Jennie is important, it's a nice moment, but a weighty one too. I know you wouldn't drop it, but it would lose it's effect if you cut the wedding story out. I take it all back, save the wedding story!

I think the writing is good enough to defeat my initial reaction and concerns over the misunderstood giant trope. I think there was a grumble somewhere about Roamwald speaking German, maybe it was just an observation. I find it a really interesting choice. I like languages so I quite enjoy trying to figure out what he's saying (I get a little, I've been to Austria for a whole week). What I am working my way around to is that I think this helps give depth to Roamwald, which eases my concern.

[Shadowfax]

After reading your responses to us, I think I have a suggestion. I'm probably stepping over all kinds of bounds but it popped into my head, so I'm going to type it up here as I think it would give you some wiggle room in these chapters (for adding stuff) and help with overall tension and set up the story to be about Roamwald (which I DO love this as a book title).

 

To make some room in word count for added tension and secription in these chapters, you could cut a lot of the story Jane tells Jennie (bear with me here!). You could spend time showing us Jane's emotions and Jennie's reactions and prodding for information. Where do readers get the whole story from them? Well, if you're cutting chapter 1, you could give us a short prologue set years and years before, of an event in Jennie's family's past... with people being Snatched... O.O! It's probably too scary for MG reading, but this thought did pop into my mind. I love prologues because they tell us "hey this has a huge impact on the plot, so bear with this book's first chapters while we work up to it". It would also make the scene with Jennie and Roamwald way more suspenseful.

 

I don't see this actually happening, and like I said I probably overstepped some bounds even posting this, but it was a thought and I wrote it down.

 

I am eagerly waiting the next submissions. Usually I won't read past chapter 2 or 3 in a book unless I plan on finishing it; I'm super picky about what I spend my time reading. You've gotten me to chapter 9, so I'm in it for the long haul if you're okay with putting up with my picky-pants comments xD

[Robinski he/him]

Lol, you would post this after my impassioned defence of the Granny Jane scene ;op

Sort that one out, K.

[krystalynn03 she/her]

I calling Switzerland on this one. :D

[krystalynn03 she/her]

Hey Mandamon!

 

Overall, I thought this was a good reveal.  Some detail missing on the snatcher, but aside from that good.  I did sort of have the same reaction as Robinksi to the hands appearing on their own.  

 

Yeah, I got do a better job on that description.

 

As to the questions about family, I though the tension was good, and didn't see a need for anything added in the kitchen.  I'm with spieles that one brother's prosperity over the other seems very suspicions.

 

I’m going to try to clear that up by adding a few more phrases in the argument about the horse.

 

 

pg 7: So if her grandmother was Jennie's age, and they all lost their family, how old were the survivors?  Was this mountain town started by teenagers?

 

I had a longer explanation here once upon a time. Her grandmother was a little girl and came to the valley as little girl, taken in by the family of the man she would ended up marrying years later (the Teals). There were plenty of both adults and children in the original group, though anyone who was an adult would long since be dead of old age or other causes.

 

Chapter 8: took me a moment to figure out that they were back at the woods.  Was this just a one day trip?  Seems like a lot of effort for it.

 

Well, they left for Jane’s in morning to be there by lunch, so after lunch, they’d be back home before supper. Doesn’t help that you felt confused though. I’ll try to work out a better transition there.

 

I thought these were good chapters, starting to get into the meat of the story.  I feel like I'm missing something in the description of Roamwald.  Jennie just says that he's big, and described hands larger than her.  If he's in proportion, that would put his hands about 5 ft long, that would put him somewhere over 50 feet tall.  I'm not sure this size person could even hide in a tall forest.  

 

This is where my description of old growth forest setting is going to have to get a looooooooot better. Not all forests are created equal and I have done a terrible (really nonexistent job) of painting the kind of forest we’re in. I’m going to have fix that and ask you to bear with me till I do…which I’d better do sooner rather than later.

 

When she's lifted to a walking height, she would be 30-40 feet in the air, but I didn't get any description of the high altitude.  

 

Hm. Let me consider how I can fix this. The place where that happens another commenter thought that that sequence dragged, so I need to find a balance between getting a few more details in and not slowing down the pace. Granted, there’s some other changes I’m going to make to the tone of the chapter that might buy me some leeway, but we’ll see. My next submission in a couple weeks (???) might be of an overhaul of chapter 9 since I’ve got so much good feedback to shore up here. Not sure how often that happens on the thread? Subs of reworked submissions?

 

Most of the text was focused on his hands and face, but Jennie would have to have noticed the rest of him, including the clothes he was wearing.  We only get a description of blue sleeves.  And where do they manufacture clothes so big?

 

Thank you for asking that. That’s the good kind of question (intended curiosity), rather than the bad kind (unintended confusion). I’ll let Roamwald answer for himself later on.

 

Thank you for your insights! I look forward to improving the product!

Edited April 16, 2016 by krystalynn03

[krystalynn03 she/her]

Wow, you must be feeling better, those are some meaty responses!

It's always interesting to re-evaluate one's comments in the wake of the response. I feel that I overreacted about the wedding. I wouldn't like to see it taken out, as the exchange between Granny Jane and Jennie is important, it's a nice moment, but a weighty one too. I know you wouldn't drop it, but it would lose it's effect if you cut the wedding story out. I take it all back, save the wedding story!

I think the writing is good enough to defeat my initial reaction and concerns over the misunderstood giant trope. I think there was a grumble somewhere about Roamwald speaking German, maybe it was just an observation. I find it a really interesting choice. I like languages so I quite enjoy trying to figure out what he's saying (I get a little, I've been to Austria for a whole week). What I am working my way around to is that I think this helps give depth to Roamwald, which eases my concern.

 

Robinski,

 

I like your overreaction. Having it be a wedding really was 'low hanging fruit', and I'm going to change that. I

 

As for the German speaking, I knew I would get some questions. I think I mentioned way back on like my initial submission that there was a part of the book I was anxious about getting past, and this was it. I was anxious that people would see the trope/archetype and think it's just a BFG story and think they know how it'll end, and I was anxious that people would throw rocks at me for having him speak German. There are both in-story reasons for it and out-of-story reasons for it, but I don't want to say anything more about it until Roamwald gets the chance to speak for himself on the matter. Hopefully, the rest of the narrative (if the reader has signed on through this point) is enough to keep them going 2 1/2 more chapters to get those answers (and subsequently more questions) as we go.

 

In any case, seeing really different reactions to the same material gives me really good insight, like triangulating something, you know? You need more than one point of reference.

[krystalynn03 she/her]

Hey Shadowfax,

 

After reading your responses to us, I think I have a suggestion. I'm probably stepping over all kinds of bounds but it popped into my head, so I'm going to type it up here as I think it would give you some wiggle room in these chapters (for adding stuff) and help with overall tension and set up the story to be about Roamwald (which I DO love this as a book title).

 

If there are bounds set out in the rules, I don’t recall them, and either way, I’m not offended by things that start snuffling up against the creative realm. If I were writing this book for the first time and it was truly soft mush in my head, I’d feel threatened by it, but the entire world and the story itself are so concrete in my mind to me, that creative suggestions are non-threatening when I’m in the nth draft of a text. (Good to know you like the title…it hasn’t always been that, but I haven’t thought of something better)

 

To make some room in word count for added tension and secription in these chapters, you could cut a lot of the story Jane tells Jennie (bear with me here!). You could spend time showing us Jane's emotions and Jennie's reactions and prodding for information.

 

This is what I currently intend…

 

Where do readers get the whole story from them? Well, if you're cutting chapter 1, you could give us a short prologue

 

Gosh, you lost me at prologue. Prologue’s are such a touchy topic, you know? To me, it smacks heavily of genre fantasy, and while I think structurally you’re on to something, the idea of a prologue makes me squeamish.

 

set years and years before, of an event in Jennie's family's past... with people being Snatched... O.O! It's probably too scary for MG reading, but this thought did pop into my mind. I love prologues because they tell us "hey this has a huge impact on the plot, so bear with this book's first chapters while we work up to it". It would also make the scene with Jennie and Roamwald way more suspenseful.

 

Here’s my other problem with doing this as a prologue—in the book, I’m giving the reader hint after hint of what a Snatcher is/does, right? First, there’s Leon warning about it pulling up trees. Then, there’s Mama telling Jennie that the Snatchers are why they hid in the valley, and they’re so dangerous, you can’t kill them with a gun; you got to have a cannon to do the trick. Then, we have Helene insinuating a mix truth and lies about Snatchers (they are huge, they do rattle the ground, but no they’re hairy monster man-eaters), and then Jane’s true story that Snatchers can suddenly show up from nowhere and there’s nothing you can do about it. Do you see how each repetition builds on the last? If I put a Snatcher scene at the beginning, then it’s like the opposite effect of what I’ve done with Roamwald’s current inner monologue I intend to cut from C1. Rather than diffuse the tension because we secretly know beyond the 4^th wall that he’s not harmful, it cuts the tension because it slices out all the mystery. Each of the iterations of the Snatcher info reveal with a nightmarish opening would be boring to the reader because they’ve already seen worse on page one of the text, see what I mean? I don’t mean to shoot your idea down—the fact that I caught your interest enough to get you to engage your imagination is a really good thing. I’m just thinking through the repercussions.

 

 I don't see this actually happening, and like I said I probably overstepped some bounds even posting this, but it was a thought and I wrote it down.

 

 Again, you didn’t step over any bounds as far as I’m concerned, and I’m grateful you took the risk and time to post it anyway.

 

I am eagerly waiting the next submissions. Usually I won't read past chapter 2 or 3 in a book unless I plan on finishing it; I'm super picky about what I spend my time reading. You've gotten me to chapter 9, so I'm in it for the long haul if you're okay with putting up with my picky-pants comments xD

 

I’m with you, Shadowfax. Our school librarian used to call me the book snob because she’d hand me ‘good books’ and I’d hand them back to her and say they were boring or bad because blah, blah, blah. Just because something gets a sticker and a title doesn’t mean it’s good…

 

I’m completely okay with your ‘picky-pants’ comments and I want your picky-pants because you’re noticing things that I’ve become blind to with too many reads and rereads and rewrites!

 

Hope I didn’t overstep any bounds myself by shutting down the idea, but I wanted to respond anyway. Maybe my response is overlooking something? And I always open to discussing something out, whether I like or dislike an idea. Still truly appreciative that you shared.

[Shadowfax]

Oh no, your response and explanation makes total sense to me! I didn't catch on to the build-up of the Snatcher because I was around for the chapter one read, so the build up didn't happen then either (I think you know what I mean?). Now that I understand what you're trying to do building it up, then I agree, the prologue would be just as harmful as the chapter one you're cutting and for basically the same reason xD

[krystalynn03 she/her]

I wish I could go back in time and erase everyone's memories and get a read of impressions without C1 in place. I think I'd be getting different kinds of problems on the radars...but thanks so much again. You've really helped a lot!

[Robinski he/him]

I calling Switzerland on this one. :D

 

Sorry, but you can't - you're the author!!   ;op