Number of ShardBlades in Alethkar

[Arcoss]

I am in the middle of WOR right now and so far I remember three separate accounts on the number of Alethi Shard Blades: 20(WOK) "dozens"(WOK) and 30(WOR)

 

The first account seems the most plausible as Kholinar is said to be the most powerful princedom, if the other accounts are true then with Sadeas having 1 blade and Kholin having two would that the other 8 princedoms have around 3-4 each which doesn't seem likely

 

 

 

I am rather new here so sorry if I posting something that has been brought up before

Edited April 11, 2016 by Arcoss

[A Joe in the Bush]

I believe the King has a few as well.

[Erunion]

And remember, the Highprinces don't have all the blades. A a bunch of the blades would likely be held by guys like Amaram - people who are tied to one highprince for now, but could switch princedoms if they felt it would benefit them.

[natc]

Elohkar has one himself, IIRC, and then has Gavilar's blade out for training rental. That's two more for Kholin.

[BrightVoid]

10 princes... 20 sets...  2 per.  Seems about right to me.  Remember too that not everyone has a full set, and that Shallan mentioned that they were terribly catalogued.

[Pathfinder]

Well also keep in mind Alethkar is not the only place with shardbearers. They do have the most but they are not the only ones. 

 

edit: and then i read again that the post is specifically regarding Alethkar, so nevermind lol

Edited April 12, 2016 by Pathfinder

[Oudeis]

So, I'm not positive. I know there was a reference to "30 Shardbearers" in the Alethi armies. Just clarifying, that refers to people like Elit, who have the Plate but no Blade. If you're looking specifically for the number of Blades, it's nothing but an upper bound.

 

Personally, between "twenty" and "dozens" specifically for Shardblades, I'd guess that between 20-24 Blades is a reasonable estimate.

[Pathfinder]

So, I'm not positive. I know there was a reference to "30 Shardbearers" in the Alethi armies. Just clarifying, that refers to people like Elit, who have the Plate but no Blade. If you're looking specifically for the number of Blades, it's nothing but an upper bound.

 

Personally, between "twenty" and "dozens" specifically for Shardblades, I'd guess that between 20-24 Blades is a reasonable estimate.

Just for clarity, it was used as a general catch all term, which includes those with both shardblade and plate, those with just shardblade, and those with just shardplate. As shardblade and plate can be borrowed to fill in the gaps of what the challenged is missing. Quote below:

 

Word of Radiance page 98

"The highprinces would have a hard time fighting against us if we controlled all of the Shardblades and Shardplate in the army. Adolin, I want you to challenge the Shardbearers of other highprinces in duels of honor, the prizes being the Shards themselves."

 

further down in the discussion:

 

"We'll see," Dalinar said. "This is only one part of what we will do, the smaller part - but also the most visible part. Adolin, everyone tells me how good you are at dueling, and you have pestered me incessantly to relax my prohibition. There are thirty Shardbearers in the army, not counting our own. Can you defeat that many men?" 

Edited April 13, 2016 by Pathfinder

[Oudeis]

My apologies; I meant to express that the term "Shardbearer" is anyone with either Plate, Blade or both. I realize looking back that it looked like I was saying, a Shardbearer is someone with only Plate.

[Pathfinder]

My apologies; I meant to express that the term "Shardbearer" is anyone with either Plate, Blade or both. I realize looking back that it looked like I was saying, a Shardbearer is someone with only Plate.

Ah gotcha. No worries, my misunderstanding. 

[Lightspine]

I remember that it was stated the kholin Princedom had a fourth the shards in alethkar after Adolins 4 on 1 duel. At that point he had his 2 shards, his brothers plate, the blade he won and gave his brother , another set of plate and another blade won (right? I'm having trouble remembering his duels) and the 3 sets of plate and 2 blades won in the 4 v 1. That's 6 plates and 6 blades. That means there's about 24 blades and 24 plates in alethkar.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Lightspine

[Pathfinder]

I remember that it was stated the kholin Princedom had a fourth the shards in alethkar after Adolins 4 on 1 duel. At that point he had his 2 shards, his brothers plate, the blade he won and gave his brother , another set of plate and another blade won (right? I'm having trouble remembering his duels) and the 3 sets of plate and 2 blades won in the 4 v 1. That's 6 plates and 6 blades. That means there's about 24 blades and 24 plates in alethkar.

Could you provide a quote? Out of curiousity, I searched the word "fourth" in both Way of Kings and Words of Radiance and could not find the spot you are referencing. 

 

edit: nevermind, did a search on quarter and then it came up:

 

Words of Radiance page 780

The Kholin princedom now owns a quarter of the Shards in all of Alethkar, and I've been named dueling champion

Edited April 14, 2016 by Pathfinder

[maxal]

Words of Radiance page 780

The Kholin princedom now owns a quarter of the Shards in all of Alethkar, and I've been named dueling champion

 

This highlights just how rare Shards... We get a feeling for it when Sadeas muses over never managing to secure himself a Blade: while being surrounded by the Kholins and Kaladin who won a set, we perhaps get the distorted idea owning Shards is easy.

 

It also makes Adolin being a full Shardbearer at 16 years old even more outstanding. I wish it was better highlighted in the books.

[asterion137]

This thread reminds me of how inconsistent the army numbers are in Stormlight Archive: WoK said 150,000, WoR had four highprinces with just over 30,000(including a weakened Dalinar). Still, 85,000=/=150,000

[Oudeis]

Sebarial has barely any troops, just some mercenaries. Each army is constructed differently, recall. Maybe it counts Sadeas's bridgemen. That would certainly pad the numbers. Maybe there's someone with a great number of light infantry, as opposed to smaller armies of highly skilled and equipped cavalry.

[QuantumSpren]

Woops accidentally downvoted asterion can someone fix that?

[galendo]

This thread reminds me of how inconsistent the army numbers are in Stormlight Archive: WoK said 150,000, WoR had four highprinces with just over 30,000(including a weakened Dalinar). Still, 85,000=/=150,000

Are they inconsistent, or are they measuring different things?  For instance, four highprinces with just over 30,000 apiece would be about 150,000.  Without knowing the exact quotes you're referring to, I couldn't say for sure; but I seem to remember that sometimes the total army strength was mentioned, and sometimes that of each highprince individually.  Camp followers (bridgemen, ardents, families, etc.) could affect the numbers further, depending on whether they were included in the estimates.

[natc]

People in armies also tend to, well, die. And new ones are hired and trained. Plus, not all are guaranteed to be in fighting condition so active troop count differs from the total number basically all the time.

Different highprinces also have differently sized armies which confuses the total number of Alethi troops further.

[asterion137]

 

Are they inconsistent, or are they measuring different things?  For instance, four highprinces with just over 30,000 apiece would be about 150,000.  Without knowing the exact quotes you're referring to, I couldn't say for sure; but I seem to remember that sometimes the total army strength was mentioned, and sometimes that of each highprince individually.  Camp followers (bridgemen, ardents, families, etc.) could affect the numbers further, depending on whether they were included in the estimates.

Dalinar said in WoK that all the highprinces marching toward the center would be 150,000 troops. Four armies in WoR had 30,000-35,000 people total. Plus Dalinar had one of the largest armies in WoK with 10,000 or so troops. Really weird if you ask me

[asterion137]

People in armies also tend to, well, die. And new ones are hired and trained. Plus, not all are guaranteed to be in fighting condition so active troop count differs from the total number basically all the time.

Different highprinces also have differently sized armies which confuses the total number of Alethi troops further.

Maybe...but Dalinar and Sadeas had the largest armies on the plains with 10,000. Also, I'm pretty sure 60,000 people didn't die between WoK and WoR

[Oudeis]

Dalinar didn't have only 10K troops, those were the ones ready to march on literally a moment's notice. Remember, a vast part of his forces were patrolling public areas, and presumably some of them were training, or scouting, or in need of repair or discipline. How many actual troops does 10K battle-ready translate as?

[Jondesu]

Dalinar didn't have only 10K troops, those were the ones ready to march on literally a moment's notice. Remember, a vast part of his forces were patrolling public areas, and presumably some of them were training, or scouting, or in need of repair or discipline. How many actual troops does 10K battle-ready translate as?

 

I believe I recall that being a quarter of his troops.  I doubt it was half, so even if I'm remembering wrong, I'd guess 1/3 to 1/4, so he would have had about 40K.

 

jW

[asterion137]

Actually, in WoR, Dalinar has 6k troops "after heavy recruiting". So he has 6,000 troops as of WoR, after losing 5400 at the tower and gaining 1000 bridgemen and probably 1000 new recruits. 6000+5400-2000=9400, which is his original army numbers.