Roshar vs Scadrial

[asterion137 he/him]

We should be able to estimate the numbers of Mistings from the books maybe? 1 in 10,000 mixed Skaa wasn't it in TFE (If Kel is right/telling the truth)? Then you have to guess how many Skaa have some noble blood somewhere in their past... Would be more in nobles though they are fewer... and if they go into the mists, you'd get nearly 1 in 16 Scadrians being Mistings. So actually, very variable depending on how they prepared for the war!

 

2 of the 10 sets of Radiants dropped their Blades in Dalinar's vision - there were 300 Radiants there. Impossible to know if this was all of those two classes and if all the classes have the same numbers, but if those 2 facts are true then there were approx 1500 Radiants in the Recreance, right? 

2 of 10? I thought it was either 9 of 10 or 10 of 10, depending on what the skybreakers did

[asterion137 he/him]

And House Venture has ~100 mistings by itself. With 10 great houses in Luthadel, that's 700+ mistings along with probably thousands more from the rest of the Empire. Venture also has at least 2 mistborn, probably more ("it wasn't one of ours"). The hundred-odd mistborn along with thousands upon thousands of mistings are going to overwhelm the Radiants in this one imo

[IndigoAjah he/him]

2 of 10? I thought it was either 9 of 10 or 10 of 10, depending on what the skybreakers did

Feverstone was only 2 of the orders though, wasn't it? So the 300 is for 2 orders. The Recreance as a whole was 9 but Dalinar only saw 2

However, also worth noting that if Scadrial includes the Kandra or TLR, they know where a LOT of Atium is. Enough to make a small number of Mistborn gamebreaking - what I said above about Mistborn losing to Radiants is clearly not true if the Mistborn have Atium

Edited April 24, 2016 by IndigoAjah

[asterion137 he/him]

How was it 2 orders? I don't remember reading that. Could you give me a quote so i can look it up in my ebook?

[asterion137 he/him]

Oh I just found it. You have to remember though that there were barely any bondsmiths and several other orders were probably small as well

[BrightVoid he/him]

Nah, I've just learnt that Speed is about 100x more easily storable than I thought it was - anyone able to tap Steel is going to wipe the floor with a Radiant now

Still not sure that this thread on storing steel is accurate.  If it was that easy then the feruchemists would have never been killed by Inquisitors.

 

For how many knights there were, you have to remember that many of the orders were not fighters, but these numbers might be offset by the one thing that we are all forgetting... Squires.  Not sure the extent that they can use stormlight, but I think we can assume 5+ squires per windrunner.

[asterion137 he/him]

the non-flying radiants will lose to koloss badly, and the scadrian numbers and battle tech are far greatrr than shadowdays roshar

[Hemalurgist]

I think all of the combat oriented orders would be able to handle koloss. 

[Voidus]

Actually, in this case I'd say the situation is reversed. If we assume both worlds have similar amount of their respective magic users, Radiants seem to be way more powerful than Mistings, not to mention they have more structured organization, which would make them capable of working together better.

 

It seems like there'd be no time period where we couldn't tell with quite some confidence who the winner is. Perhaps Scadrial Era 1 vs. Roshar right after Recreance? Thousands of Blades and Plates laying around should even the field when it comes to magic.

There aren't similar numbers, Mistings are waaaay more common than Radiants are. There's perhaps a few thousand Radiants total. They'd outnumber the Mistborn and Feruchemists probably but not the mistings.

 

Still not sure that this thread on storing steel is accurate.  If it was that easy then the feruchemists would have never been killed by Inquisitors.

 

For how many knights there were, you have to remember that many of the orders were not fighters, but these numbers might be offset by the one thing that we are all forgetting... Squires.  Not sure the extent that they can use stormlight, but I think we can assume 5+ squires per windrunner.

At least some Inquisitors had Feruchemical steel too.

[Charlie.x.3000]

Actually, Preservation actions snapped MISTINGS at a rate of 1 per 16, garunteed. Since this is Pre Vin's second Ascension, the mists are still doing that snapping. Overall, that's a lot of mistings. That's is far more than the earlier quoted 1 per 10 000. So in terms of number of magic users, I'm pretty sure Scadrial wins. (Do Spren blades and Spren plate remain behind if the Radiant dies?)

Unless I messed up the time period again, since it keeps changing.

[asterion137 he/him]

btw I personally think shadowdays Roshar is not much better than current Roshar for handling the Final Empire. They have inferior battle tech and WAAAYYY less people since Desolations would slaughter them every few centuries. The only advantage they have is the Radiants, and even they will die horribly when swarmed by soldiers with longer reach that them and weapons heavy enough to shatter their plate relatively quickly(koloss).

[Rasarr she/her]

So... The only way Roshar could win a war against Scadrial would be for it to have the number of magic users/Shardblades of pre-/post-Recreance era and numbers, organization and tech of Vengeance Pact era? That's tough, especially seeing how even then, Lord Ruler coming out to play would mean a TPK for Roshar. 

 

Unless we have a Herald on hand. Anybody willing to estimate how a Herald vs. Rashek battle would go?

[IndigoAjah he/him]

So... The only way Roshar could win a war against Scadrial would be for it to have the number of magic users/Shardblades of pre-/post-Recreance era and numbers, organization and tech of Vengeance Pact era? That's tough, especially seeing how even then, Lord Ruler coming out to play would mean a TPK for Roshar. 

 

Unless we have a Herald on hand. Anybody willing to estimate how a Herald vs. Rashek battle would go?

Hard to judge as we haven't seen a Herald, but based on what Rashek can do the safe bet is very onesidedly towards TLR. He has near infinite healing (and can heal back from death and can heal spiritual wounds apparently), speed, strength, senses, intelligence, can use Atium, can use all the Allomatic powers are increased power, can sense magic... The only thing is that the Heralds will eventually come back to life, but then Rashek will just kill them again

[Voidus]

Technically the Heralds would win since as far as we know their immortality doesn't have limits and his does. Although technically they do die they just come back so I suppose you could also say TLR wins.

They definitely wouldn't win in an actual fight though.

[Oversleep]

I feel like people who say "a looooot of Mistings" tend to forget that the only battle oriented Mistings in TFE are Coinshots and Thugs. Lurchers may be useful, but not much. Tineyes (and maybe Seekers) can be scouts... and that's all.

But as far as Knights Radiant go, every member of the Orders is a full Shardbearer with a living, morphing Sprenblade. And majority of the Surges is useful in combat.

[Voidus]

I feel like people who say "a looooot of Mistings" tend to forget that the only battle oriented Mistings in TFE are Coinshots and Thugs. Lurchers may be useful, but not much. Tineyes (and maybe Seekers) can be scouts... and that's all.

But as far as Knights Radiant go, every member of the Orders is a full Shardbearer with a living, morphing Sprenblade. And majority of the Surges is useful in combat.

We haven't seen the majority of surges so that's kind of hard to judge.

As for the usefulness of mistings, Seers aren't useful? Soothers and Rioters are arguably more useful than any other Misting in a war, being able to control morale at will is a powerful ability to have, even aside from its ability to control Hemalurgic creations.

But even if all you used were Coinshots and Thugs, there's still way more of them than there are Radiants. TFE has a population in the millions, by mist snapping standards that's in the tens of thousands of thugs and coinshots. If we ignore the Nobles altogether even though they're the main source of Allomancers and just focus on the skaa with no Mist involvement there's still a comparable number to the Radiants even at their peak.

[asterion137 he/him]

If the Final Empire has a population of eighty million, that's 800,000 coinshots, 800,000 thugs, and 1,600,000 emotional allomancers. Even if an eighth or less decide to fight, they outnumber the radiants fifty to one or better.

[IndigoAjah he/him]

Tineye + longbow +training: should be a phenomenal sniper

Lurchers definitely combat capable

Seers  very combat capable

Rioters and Soothers both have vital roles in combat and war

[Voidus]

And Aluminium mistings to eat Shardblades and destroy them

[Edgedancer he/him]

How high are people judging the chances of a Smoker being able to get past alerter/warning fabrials?

[IndigoAjah he/him]

How high are people judging the chances of a Smoker being able to get past alerter/warning fabrials?

 

If Seekers can pick up non-Scadrian use of magic, then logically Smokers can protect against detection from them, so very high in mu opinion

[Vissy]

If Seekers can pick up non-Scadrian use of magic, I predict a new Final Empire spanning across the galaxy.

[Samaldin he/him]

If Seekers can pick up non-Scadrian use of magic, I predict a new Final Empire spanning across the galaxy.

Now i´m wondering if someone with scadrial parents but who is born on another planet could be an allomant, since he wouldn´t have a connection with harmony.

[IndigoAjah he/him]

Now i´m wondering if someone with scadrial parents but who is born on another planet could be an allomant, since he wouldn´t have a connection with harmony.

 

 

They might though, depending on exactly how sDNA works, maybe? Plus Ruin and Preservation put some of themselves into their species (which would be subtly different from other "human" species)

[Blackhoof]

In terms of Shardbearers vs Koloss, I can easily see Shardbearers working together in small teams, supporting each other and being able to hold off against a large number of Koloss. Both opponents have comparable reach, but Shardblades can cut through Koloss swords and arms very easily. 

As demonstrated by the effects of a Chasmfiend claw on Elohkar, it takes a large amount of force to crack even sabotaged Shardplate- I think it would take a few solid whacks in one place to begin cracking, even when wielded by a Koloss. Should the 'bearers be supporting each other, I think they have a decent chance of forming a solid formation. Koloss bodies would pile up, and it would become harder and harder for new ones to attack. A single swing could kill a handful of Koloss.

 

That said, they would eventually be taken down, for sure. They aren't the nearly invincible warriors against koloss as they are against humans, especially if they go it alone.

 

And against hundreds of thousands of koloss? won't make much difference overrall