asterion137 he/him Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 A million actually seems on the low end since Roshar probably has a population exceeding a hundred million and Jasnah doubts there's a village in Roshar without parshmen (Hearthstone alone had upwards of fifty from the destruction they caused) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 A million actually seems on the low end since Roshar probably has a population exceeding a hundred million and Jasnah doubts there's a village in Roshar without parshmen (Hearthstone alone had upwards of fifty from the destruction they caused) A hundred million? I'd pretty highly doubt that. Like 10 million, maybe? The land wouldn't support a hundred million, not with the Highstorms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterion137 he/him Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 I don't think ten million people would support armies of 700,000 or more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 I don't think ten million people would support armies of 700,000 or more Alethkar is one of the more populous contries and they employed drafting so 1/10 isn't unreasonable and they only came up with a couple hundred thousand. Soulcasters can support armies but we haven't seen them used to support regular citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterion137 he/him Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 good point i forgot about soulcasters feeding the armies. I guess 20 million is a lot more reasonable than 100 million Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Windspren he/him Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 1/10 is waaay too high an estimate. When Amaram went recruiting in Hearthstone, he got around 10-20 people to join up, and Hearthstone was considered a pretty large town. I think we also have a WoB that Alethkar's population is in the millions, and that Roshar is very lush and fertile. The survival rate for children is also pretty high because of the excess of Investiture everywhere (there's a WoB on that too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 she/her Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 Actually the Rosharans lose for exactly the reason above. All that excess investiture has prevented many common illnesses from flourishing. Thus, Demoux's cold becomes a plague on Roshar. If the common cold is a plague, what would happen if a disease dangerous to Scadrians were deliberately introduced? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 1/10 is waaay too high an estimate. When Amaram went recruiting in Hearthstone, he got around 10-20 people to join up, and Hearthstone was considered a pretty large town. I think we also have a WoB that Alethkar's population is in the millions, and that Roshar is very lush and fertile. The survival rate for children is also pretty high because of the excess of Investiture everywhere (there's a WoB on that too). On one recruiting trip to a rural area, on the spur of the moment for a border dispute. General practice is that you need to leave the farmers a bit otherwise you don't have food for the rest of your country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vissy Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 Good observation, Kingsdaughter. Demoux's cold could well be a "plague". It might not even have been a cold, but something that only manifests as one if Demoux has a resistance to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Windspren he/him Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 Good observation, Kingsdaughter. Demoux's cold could well be a "plague". It might not even have been a cold, but something that only manifests as one if Demoux has a resistance to it. According to the WoB about the Purelake "Plague", it wouldn't actually be considered a plague anywhere but Roshar. Disease is so rare there that a few people coughing with no cure would be seen as really scary. It was just an outbreak of a normal cold. And remember, Roshar has some diseases too, such as the grindings and fiddlepox. I'm not sure if these are Rosharan names for Earth diseases or something, but disease is a two-edged sword. Scadrians would have no immunity to these diseases, and would likely die from them. Tl;DR: Whenever you mix two isolated populations, disease Ruins everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterion137 he/him Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 Scadrians are really hardy compared to Rosharans though, so diseases are really more of a threat to Roshar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 That and Scadrial's medical technology would be further along than Roshar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondesu he/him Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 Scadrians are really hardy compared to Rosharans though, so diseases are really more of a threat to RosharI'm curious why you think that. It's been stated by WoB I believe that all the Stormlight causes Rosharans to have very few sicknesses. Why would you assume Scadrians would be hardier and more resistant than that?jW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vissy Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 If Stormlight grants supernatural immunities to Rosharans, then the Scadrians' natural immunities from several diseases (earned through centuries of getting killed by them) is ultimately superior. Of course, this is all relative. A Scadrian won't be any "hardier" than a Rosharan if they both were to travel to, say, Nalthis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoAjah he/him Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 (edited) On the "limited Atium pre HoA" thing, it depends who is on the Scadrian side. If they have the Kandra, truly on their side, then they will know where to get LOADS of Atium I'm curious why you think that. It's been stated by WoB I believe that all the Stormlight causes Rosharans to have very few sicknesses. Why would you assume Scadrians would be hardier and more resistant than that?jW I think we know that Harmony at least made Scadrians resistant to at least some diseases Also, this seems to make Lirin's job a lot easier! Edited April 22, 2016 by IndigoAjah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Windspren he/him Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 If Stormlight grants supernatural immunities to Rosharans, then the Scadrians' natural immunities from several diseases (earned through centuries of getting killed by them) is ultimately superior. Of course, this is all relative. A Scadrian won't be any "hardier" than a Rosharan if they both were to travel to, say, Nalthis. How would natural immunities be better than supernatural abilities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 How would natural immunities be better than supernatural abilities? Because they depend on the existence of the source of said supernatural abilities why natural arise and continue on their own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterion137 he/him Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 I'm curious why you think that. It's been stated by WoB I believe that all the Stormlight causes Rosharans to have very few sicknesses. Why would you assume Scadrians would be hardier and more resistant than that? jW I mean if Rosharans marched into Scadrial and so lost access to stormlight, they would be a lot less resistant to disease than Scadrians would marching into Roshar because skaa were engineered to have strong immune systems so the Lord Ruler wouldn't lose his workers to disease and the skaa live on a dying world and breathe in ash every day 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondesu he/him Posted April 23, 2016 Report Share Posted April 23, 2016 I mean if Rosharans marched into Scadrial and so lost access to stormlight, they would be a lot less resistant to disease than Scadrians would marching into Roshar because skaa were engineered to have strong immune systems so the Lord Ruler wouldn't lose his workers to disease and the skaa live on a dying world and breathe in ash every day Ah, gotcha. That might be true, but the skaa would be exceptionally ineffective fighters for the most part, so that advantage would be largely offset. TLR had some in the Luthadel guards, but the number of trained skaa soldiers is far below anything Roshar could field. jW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterion137 he/him Posted April 23, 2016 Report Share Posted April 23, 2016 Ah, gotcha. That might be true, but the skaa would be exceptionally ineffective fighters for the most part, so that advantage would be largely offset. TLR had some in the Luthadel guards, but the number of trained skaa soldiers is far below anything Roshar could field. jW I just think people are underestimating the skaa soldiers in this fight. Given a few months Ham trained some skaa soldiers pretty darn well, as five thousand of them were able to kill several thousand Garrison soldiers while outnumbered six to one. Possibly even more Garrisoners died when the Garrison was sent to hunt down the survivors. BTW TLR can muster a ridiculous number of skaa soldiers: "literally millions" according to Kelsier. I would say Roshar can field four hundred thousand veterans at best, along with another million or so who are on par with the skaa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightVoid he/him Posted April 23, 2016 Report Share Posted April 23, 2016 Can we just agree that Scadrial destroys Roshar? A better question would be era 1 Scad. vs Pre-Recreance Roshar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasarr she/her Posted April 23, 2016 Report Share Posted April 23, 2016 Can we just agree that Scadrial destroys Roshar? A better question would be era 1 Scad. vs Pre-Recreance Roshar. Actually, in this case I'd say the situation is reversed. If we assume both worlds have similar amount of their respective magic users, Radiants seem to be way more powerful than Mistings, not to mention they have more structured organization, which would make them capable of working together better. It seems like there'd be no time period where we couldn't tell with quite some confidence who the winner is. Perhaps Scadrial Era 1 vs. Roshar right after Recreance? Thousands of Blades and Plates laying around should even the field when it comes to magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoAjah he/him Posted April 23, 2016 Report Share Posted April 23, 2016 Actually, in this case I'd say the situation is reversed. If we assume both worlds have similar amount of their respective magic users, Radiants seem to be way more powerful than Mistings, not to mention they have more structured organization, which would make them capable of working together better. It seems like there'd be no time period where we couldn't tell with quite some confidence who the winner is. Perhaps Scadrial Era 1 vs. Roshar right after Recreance? Thousands of Blades and Plates laying around should even the field when it comes to magic. We should be able to estimate the numbers of Mistings from the books maybe? 1 in 10,000 mixed Skaa wasn't it in TFE (If Kel is right/telling the truth)? Then you have to guess how many Skaa have some noble blood somewhere in their past... Would be more in nobles though they are fewer... and if they go into the mists, you'd get nearly 1 in 16 Scadrians being Mistings. So actually, very variable depending on how they prepared for the war! 2 of the 10 sets of Radiants dropped their Blades in Dalinar's vision - there were 300 Radiants there. Impossible to know if this was all of those two classes and if all the classes have the same numbers, but if those 2 facts are true then there were approx 1500 Radiants in the Recreance, right? Interesting to think about, actually. Anyone fancy doing the calculations for likely numbers of Mistings? Also, if this is era 1 Scadrial, is TLR still alive? Let's be honest, until Roshar comes up with an OP physical god, he is the deal breaker here. I concur that 1 Radiant>>>1 Misting (except possibly a Seer and even then it's >>) and likely >1 Mistborn who are very rare (though maybe not >the main characters). I think an Inquisitor likely beats a Radiant, but there were only 20 of them. A LR beats, probably, all of the Radiants put together, with I suspect reasonable ease once he gets a Blade off the first one 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemalurgist Posted April 23, 2016 Report Share Posted April 23, 2016 I would think that an inquisitor would probably lose to a full windrunner and maybe one or two other orders. Unless the inquisitor has unlimited atium or has access to compounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoAjah he/him Posted April 23, 2016 Report Share Posted April 23, 2016 Nah, I've just learnt that Speed is about 100x more easily storable than I thought it was - anyone able to tap Steel is going to wipe the floor with a Radiant now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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