Geography of the Cognitive Realm

[Nethseäar he/him]

Knowing that you can walk from planet to planet in the Cognitive Realm has me wondering: What is the Cognitive Realm shaped like?

In order to walk from world to world, the way I understand it, it has to be one of the following:

1) Flat; one continuous plane
2) On the inside of a vast, vast sphere
3) Very complex, possibly like alveoli in a lung, with certain parts of the worlds of the Physical Realm not represented or distorted to fit.
4) Non-Euclidean, involving impossible geometries

Interesting to think about. It'll be fun to have a map of the Cognitive Realm that connects all the worlds -- seems rife for interesting territorial conflict, since it's all connected. You've got Shades from Threnody, dangerous Spren, ambitious Ire, and who knows what else, all in strange environments of mist and glass beads and obsidian. I can't wait to see more.

[Landis963 he/him]

Probably 3 or 4, what with dark space being compressed so much.  I mean, there's already a bit of 4 in the fact that a Cognitive Shadow can just walk off the edge of the world without any change in terrain or anything beyond the sudden disappearance of the ocean forest.  A world which, might I add, is spherical.  

[Oversleep]

How about not only non-Euclidean but also Eldritch geometry? Those are the best.

[ARARITA he/him]

upvote for Eldritch

[Rasarr she/her]

The "eldritch" made me wonder if CogRealm could have some denizens beyond human-inhabited area. You know, some remnants of ancient species and civillizations long gone, sorta as if spren had their Rosharans wiped out. Now that I think of it... I'd really love to see Sanderson write allomancers or Knights Radiant fighting Cthulhu.

 

Anyway, on the topic of CogRealm, I always imagined it as sort of sphere projected on a flat surface, kinda like we do to make maps, only with some distortion to account for blank spaces. Of course, there's the obvious problem that you can, for example, travel from Alethkar to Shinovar in PhysRealm by going east via the Origin, but you can't do that in CogRealm. So either non-Euclidean geometries or all Cosmere worlds have handy giant islandless oceans on one hemisphere.

[Eki]

The "eldritch" made me wonder if CogRealm could have some denizens beyond human-inhabited area. You know, some remnants of ancient species and civillizations long gone, sorta as if spren had their Rosharans wiped out. Now that I think of it... I'd really love to see Sanderson write allomancers or Knights Radiant fighting Cthulhu.

This is a good point... Do sentient spren expand the space of the Cognitive Realm around themselves?

[ChickenPlague he/him]

The "eldritch" made me wonder if CogRealm could have some denizens beyond human-inhabited area. You know, some remnants of ancient species and civillizations long gone, sorta as if spren had their Rosharans wiped out. Now that I think of it... I'd really love to see Sanderson write allomancers or Knights Radiant fighting Cthulhu.

 

Anyway, on the topic of CogRealm, I always imagined it as sort of sphere projected on a flat surface, kinda like we do to make maps, only with some distortion to account for blank spaces. Of course, there's the obvious problem that you can, for example, travel from Alethkar to Shinovar in PhysRealm by going east via the Origin, but you can't do that in CogRealm. So either non-Euclidean geometries or all Cosmere worlds have handy giant islandless oceans on one hemisphere.

Judgingg by the fact that Painspren aree mentioned as harmful in one of the pre-released SA3 chapters, and looking at how they look in the Physical realm, we will get an Eldritch abomination soon.

[ARARITA he/him]

upvotes for Lovecraft lol - yay scary things

[Alfa he/him]

I propose the theory, that the Cognitive realm does not have any geometry at all - and all observed geometry only comes from expectations of the people around.

[Nethseäar he/him]

Another round of upvotes for Lovecraft! As has been said, I do think we'll see some abominations in the Cognitive Realm. Maybe even some eldritch abominations, if we're (un)lucky.
 

 

I propose the theory, that the Cognitive realm does not have any geometry at all - and all observed geometry only comes from expectations of the people around.

Seems consistent with what we've seen of the Cognitive Realm -- though, for the sake of discussion, the observed geometry (some average of all perceptions/expectations, I suppose) becomes the actual geometry. It may change according to perception/expectation, but it does exist as a mutually 'tangible' and observable certainty in between shifts.

 

Anyway, on the topic of CogRealm, I always imagined it as sort of sphere projected on a flat surface, kinda like we do to make maps, only with some distortion to account for blank spaces. Of course, there's the obvious problem that you can, for example, travel from Alethkar to Shinovar in PhysRealm by going east via the Origin, but you can't do that in CogRealm. So either non-Euclidean geometries or all Cosmere worlds have handy giant islandless oceans on one hemisphere.

Indeed, that's what I was thinking with the first of the possibilities. Flat surface, which would require some distortion, and all the worlds are basically islands in a sea of walkable space. And I guess you just can't world-wrap from Alethkar to Shinovar in the Cognitive Realm. You have to go the long way. (So it would be advantageous to shift to the physical realm for faster travel).

Or, we know that Intent plays a big role in the Cosmere -- what if you naturally world-wrap (i.e. are on a sphere), unless you Intend to leave the planet, in which case the Cognitive Realm shifts you to the 'Space Plane,' which then deposits you on another sphere. To people already on the sphere, you fade in or appear there in the middle of an ocean (walkable land). That fits in with Alfa's theory that the geometry shifts to meet your expectations, and with the non-Euclidean geometry proposal -- geometry that depends on your Intent. So there's a subset of #4.

I'll also note that #2 in the original post could just as easily be the outside of a sphere. And, for that matter, the inside or outside of any regular or odd 3-d shape, although no one (that is, Kelsier, Shallan, or Jasnah) has noted extreme departures from the geometry of the Physical Realm, other than the inversion of water and land.

[Argel he/him]

If the CR is solely based on expectations, then why is land absent/water and water land?

[Brgst13]

I picture the cognitive realm as a membrane overlapping the physical realm not on a planetary level but a universe level. Individual planets can have geometry projected onto this realm, while the gaps are removed by the "folding" of the membrane. This would also explain perpendicularities as spots where investiture has created a "wormhole" between the cognitive and physical realms.

[Voidus]

Another interesting question, what decides which part of a world is the 'end' of that world.

[ZenBossanova]

If the CR is solely based on expectations, then why is land absent/water and water land?

My thought, was that one is places where people are and things are happening, and the other is not. 

 

So, if I am right, then if people spent as much time on the ocean, then it would appear as water as well, in the Cognitive Realm. 

That said, I am going to have to look closer at how the ship appeared to Jasnah when she Elsecalled. 

 

An argument against that, though, is the map of Shadesmar that we have in The Way of Kings. The Purelake appears as mountains. 

Edited April 3, 2016 by ZenBossanova

[Erunion he/him]

I suspect that leaving the planet you're on has a LOT to do with Intent (same with world-wrapping).

 

Mistborn Secret History Spoilers!

When Kelsier leaves the planet to find the Ire, he goes directly away from where his Connection to Scadrial is tugging him - he intentionally leaves that Connection behind.

I also suspect that you can only leave a planet at a point where there's not too much cognitive activity, hence he had to go out onto the ocean first.

Finally, the fact that he's able to find the Ire at all off planet means one of two things: either 'space' is tiny in the cognitive realm (due to lack of cognitive activity?) or Intent allows you to go places where you want to go, even if you don't know where that is. That's a bit sketchier, but could fit.

 

Leaving a planet might also work much the same way as how it works for the Elves when they're leaving Middle Earth for the undying lands in LOTR; Arda is spherical (at least after the Akallabeth), yet instead of sailing around the world, the Elves take a 'straight path' that connects them to the undying lands (a path that could be described as tangent to the surface of Arda, but leads into a separate realm where Valinor was moved following the Akallabeth). 

[Ari he/him]

I'm pretty sure after M:SH that it's a giant "plane," which is probably what you might be referring to as "flat."