Question 19

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

Just now, Mailliw73 said:

I'd really like that.  I believe you have her weakness and backstory along with the potential redemption story, right?

Yes, I remember you sharing it with me. If there's anything you want me to focus on with her while you're gone, go ahead and Alan it to me. 

[Darkness Ascendant he/him]

4 hours ago, Cognizantastic said:

I don't like this whole Native American themed Epic thing. The herbal mastery, the tracking, the totem tattoos... it feels like a shallow, disrespectful export of Native American culture. Imagine if someone made an "American-themed" Epic with the power to shoot greasy food out of his hands and summon firearms.

Also, I'll echo the others' sentiment that you have too many Epics for a new player. Even two seems excessive to me, especially when Diablo is as powerful as he is. In addition, combating the darkness doesn't sit well in Reckonerverse canon.

Have you considered adopting or creating a human character? I know that making an Epic is the most outwardly alluring choice, but I'm having a blast with my one original human character and slew of adoptees. There's a lot of fun to be found in that path as well.

I....don't exactly understand why you don't like the American-Indian idea, I personally love American-Indian mythology and all, especially how they revere wolves. I love their tribal tattoos and the way they dress. Whenever you read comics you always find character's echoing their ancestry and you always find specifically themed superheroes and whatnot, like Gateway, Marvel's aboriginal themed superhero.

I created the American Indian character in salutations to them, not in a mockery of them. 

As to me having too many characters......ok then. I'll stick with Diablo...and maybe Empathy. I might put the others up for adoption idk. (Adoption feels like I'm disowning my own ideas :/)

I have in fact considered a whole array of human characters, problem is...I always envision scenes where they are always at a disadvantage because.....Epics.

Personally, I believe you are jumping to conclusions. And that perhaps you are the disrespectful one. Anything one creates can be "a shallow disrespectful import", Shakespeare's plays were influenced by novels and stories which could be considered popular culture at his time. No doubt Brandon Sanderson has taken ideas from mythology, history and other sources. It is hard to be original when so many great people before us had the very same ideas we have :/

Besides, an American-themed hero who shoots greasy food out of his hands and summon firearms would be insulting and in fact reflects on your perspective of America, heck I wouldn't dare do so, but it seems like you don't consider American-Indians....to be American.

Pardon myself for being a bit stormed off. (For some reason I gain impeccable english whenever I'm angry). 

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

8 minutes ago, Darkness Ascendant said:

I....don't exactly understand why you don't like the American-Indian idea, I personally love American-Indian mythology and all, especially how they revere wolves. I love their tribal tattoos and the way they dress. Whenever you read comics you always find character's echoing their ancestry and you always find specifically themed superheroes and whatnot, like Gateway, Marvel's aboriginal themed superhero.

I created the American Indian character in salutations to them, not in a mockery of them. 

As to me having too many characters......ok then. I'll stick with Diablo...and maybe Empathy. I might put the others up for adoption idk. (Adoption feels like I'm disowning my own ideas :/)

I have in fact considered a whole array of human characters, problem is...I always envision scenes where they are always at a disadvantage because.....Epics.

Personally, I believe you are jumping to conclusions. And that perhaps you are the disrespectful one. Anything one creates can be "a shallow disrespectful import", Shakespeare's plays were influenced by novels and stories which could be considered popular culture at his time. No doubt Brandon Sanderson has taken ideas from mythology, history and other sources. It is hard to be original when so many great people before us had the very same ideas we have :/

Besides, an American-themed hero who shoots greasy food out of his hands and summon firearms would be insulting and in fact reflects on your perspective of America, heck I wouldn't dare do so, but it seems like you don't consider American-Indians....to be American.

Pardon myself for being a bit stormed off. (For some reason I gain impeccable english whenever I'm angry). 

The problem isn't your intentions, which I don't think anyone assumed were anything but good. The problem is the execution. Your Native American character relies on stereotypes that various Native American communities have been trying to escape for decades—the wise, close-to-earth, able-to-heal-anything-with-herbs medicine man is so often seen that it's what many outsiders think of when they think of Native Americans. It's a stereotype that Native Americans of many different tribes have spoken out against, saying that it reduces them and their heritage to a caricature. Why propagate that?

That being said, please calm down. Cog isn't jumping to conclusions; he is stating his opinion on a problem he saw. That's what we do here in the Question thread. When a new member joins, we have them post their characters here so we can give feedback and criticism, and point out any issues that might arise from their characters. While those issues usually relate to story-breaking powers or the like, a character that propagates a stereotype many have called harmful (and others have called "annoying," "infuriating," or just plain "dumb") is something that needs to be addressed. Cog addressed it in a civil manner, so please show him and others the same courtesy in the future. 

[Comatose he/him]

Gotta love when you start skimming Portland for Altermind tidbits, and then get caught up reading the Funtimes/Nighthound fight because it's just too good to skip, even though Altermind isn't involved at all.

[Edgedancer he/him]

15 minutes ago, Comatose said:

Gotta love when you start skimming Portland for Altermind tidbits, and then get caught up reading the Funtimes/Nighthound fight because it's just too good to skip, even though Altermind isn't involved at all.

A sign that we have done our job well.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

1 hour ago, Comatose said:

Gotta love when you start skimming Portland for Altermind tidbits, and then get caught up reading the Funtimes/Nighthound fight because it's just too good to skip, even though Altermind isn't involved at all.

So that's you with the random upvotes then.  the best part of that fight, to me, is still that it all came about because Joe and I were busy that week, so Twi, Kobold, and Edge got bored waiting around for us. 

[Darkness Ascendant he/him]

23 hours ago, Cognizantastic said:

Native Americans aren't just one tribe who all have tattoos, dress in a certain way, and revere wolves. I feel like you might be relying upon a stereotype to build your character. I understand that you don't mean any ill, but by creating a character like this, you perpetuate a false stereotype regardless of good intentions. Also, I'd note that those ethnic comic characters are notorious for being shallow, 2-dimensional embodiments of stereotypes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CaptainEthnic). 

There's a fundamental difference between being influenced by someone else's work and creating what is essentially a conglomerate of stereotypes — a "themed" character.

No, that doesn't reflect my idea of America. That reflects my understanding of the stereotypes that people apply to Americans. I don't know where you got the "don't consider American-Indians…to be American" thing.

I understand what you mean by the "Native Americans aren't just one tribe who all have tattoos, dress in a certain way, and revere wolves". I know that quite well. Thing is, when I was researching Native American mythologies relating to werewolves, skin-walkers etc etc, as well as their tribal tattoos, totems. I'll admit I was basing my character off Red Wolf from Call of Juarez Gunslinger, but truth be told was mixing and matching after learning what I could. I picked what I like and what worked together. Appearance...I'll admit is a bit stereotypical. Also, I didn't reveal everthing to do with Achak in my post. I was hoping to drop information about him during the games.

Most of the stuff I said I said in a rush as I had a soccer game to attend. Let's just call that hot air and stupidity shall we?

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

2 minutes ago, Darkness Ascendant said:

I understand what you mean by the "Native Americans aren't just one tribe who all have tattoos, dress in a certain way, and revere wolves". I know that quite well. Thing is, when I was researching Native American mythologies relating to werewolves, skin-walkers etc etc, as well as their tribal tattoos, totems. I'll admit I was basing my character off Red Wolf from Call of Juarez Gunslinger, but truth be told was mixing and matching after learning what I could. I picked what I like and what worked together. Appearance...I'll admit is a bit stereotypical. Also, I didn't reveal everthing to do with Achak in my post. I was hoping to drop information about him during the games.

Most of the stuff I said I said in a rush as I had a soccer game to attend. Let's just call that hot air and stupidity shall we?

The thing about skinwalkers and totems, though, is that they aren't just part of Native American mythology; they have religious significance. Using them for an RP character would be disrespectful—like giving him "The Prophet Mohammed" or "Jesus of Nazareth" as an Epic name. 

Minority representation is a good thing, and it's definitely encouraged here. But if you're going to create a minority character, look into the elements you plan to use. Make sure you plan to use them in their proper context. And if someone points out that your idea is offensive to some, modify it instead of defending it. 

[Darkness Ascendant he/him]

Just now, TwiLyghtSansSparkles said:

The thing about skinwalkers and totems, though, is that they aren't just part of Native American mythology; they have religious significance. Using them for an RP character would be disrespectful—like giving him "The Prophet Mohammed" or "Jesus of Nazareth" as an Epic name. 

Minority representation is a good thing, and it's definitely encouraged here. But if you're going to create a minority character, look into the elements you plan to use. Make sure you plan to use them in their proper context. And if someone points out that your idea is offensive to some, modify it instead of defending it. 

Skinwalkers aren't entirely religious. There are some ceremonies associated with them but mainly they are considered bad luck. Heck they have black tongues because they have "black souls". I wanted him to be a skinwalker as it's a really cool concept, plus Red Wolf from Call of Juarez Gunslinger can turn into a wolf as well. Totems do have religious significance so I might remove the totem tats. I'm keeping the tribal ones though

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

Just now, Darkness Ascendant said:

Skinwalkers aren't entirely religious. There are some ceremonies associated with them but mainly they are considered bad luck. Heck they have black tongues because they have "black souls". I wanted him to be a skinwalker as it's a really cool concept, plus Red Wolf from Call of Juarez Gunslinger can turn into a wolf as well. Totems do have religious significance so I might remove the totem tats. I'm keeping the tribal ones though

Dude, two people have told you it's offensive and that you should change it. Heck, JK Rowling got called on the carpet for appropriating skinwalkers for her "Magic in North America" series. If it's offensive when JK Rowling does it, it's offensive when you do it. Do not make me pull rank and remind you that I'm the GM to convince you of that fact. 

[Darkness Ascendant he/him]

5 hours ago, TwiLyghtSansSparkles said:

Dude, two people have told you it's offensive and that you should change it. Heck, JK Rowling got called on the carpet for appropriating skinwalkers for her "Magic in North America" series. If it's offensive when JK Rowling does it, it's offensive when you do it. Do not make me pull rank and remind you that I'm the GM to convince you of that fact. 

Actually?

Wow, I had no idea

5 hours ago, Cognizantastic said:

Besides what Twi said, I also don't think that your Epic idea even makes sense in canon. Calamity has never been shown to create Epic power sets based off of human mythologies. 

I'm also not a fan of creating blatantly derivative characters. In addition, what bearing does a video game character have to do with the appropriateness of Medicine Man/Skinwalker?

To me that sounded like...

(acknowledges legitimacy of problem)

(states that the exact problem cited by 2 other people is true, then takes little to no effort in fixing it)

That dissonance becomes even more jarring when I consider your "I'm keeping the tribal ones though".

You've admitted yourself that your character is derivative of another creator's and is based off of an eclectic assortment of information about Native American culture that could be considered offensive, which might not even be from the same tribe. Even if it is, I still think it caricaturizes Native Americans. Coupled with the canon issues, I think we have some very big problems with this guy.

ok. I'm gonna throw him off the Honor Chasm. That is to say, he is a no-go.

Sorry :/

[Blackhoof]

Good, thanks for taking our advice on board :)

 

[Darkness Ascendant he/him]

8 hours ago, Cognizantastic said:

Good. I'm glad to hear it. 

I'm really sorry that I keep criticizing, but it kind of has to happen. For Diablo himself, I see a lot of powers:

• superhuman healing
• superhuman speed
• superhuman intelligence
• superhuman concentration
• ability to make himself and everyone around him smarter (I don't know if releasing oxygen would work that way…)
• ability to make instant connections 

Even if he isn't technically a High Epic, I would argue that is still way too much. As stated before, I don't like extremely derivative characters — that he looks like a specific video game character. In regards to his backstory, none of what I've read states that drug cartels (emphasis on the fact that there are multiple cartels and that their primary business is drug trafficking) own gold mines. This — http://www.mining.com/mexican-drug-lords-get-firm-grip-on-countrys-mines-91727/ — is the closest thing I could find, and that's iron ore and coal. Some do have tendrils in gold business, but none outright own mines and use slave labor to mine for them. On the topic of slaves, the only slaves that drug cartels use are sex slaves and child laborers. I don't think they take people as slaves for payment and whip them to make them work in gold mines.

It's also extremely improbable that all five of the guy's closest friends would become Epics. Also, what's up with Diablo putting his friend down because he "lost the will to live" after his wife died? Yeah, that's a horrible thing to go through, but I would definitely not kill a best friend because they were grieving — I would help them through it.

Finally, I'll reiterate that there are massive canon issues with your Epics all being able to successfully resist the darkness.

His increased metabolism isn't at the point of superhuman, still quite noticeably useful but more akin to the Flash, now that I think about it. I thought it balanced nicely seeing as he would be forced to consume lots of food, and seeing as food probably would be a little hard to find in the amounts he needs. So an enemy can easily take advantage of him when he is tired or fatigued, so if a fight is long and drawn out, the more weaker he will get.

I will explain his ability to make instant connections in deeper as I have developed the ability to be alot more than it is.

I cannot believe you were bothered to research that wow. The drug cartels could of course be different in the Reckoners series. I thought this was meant to be in a realm different to our own, If they have Epics, then why not gold-mining criminals?

Oh as for "lost the will to live", I just relised that was a mistake, what I was meant to write was that he went on a rampage killing lots of folk and then Diablo killed him.I also press that DIablo is at heart an EPIC, not like you, any show of weakness could be seen as intolerable to him.I rectified the whole can combat the darkness and will update the post.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

5 hours ago, Darkness Ascendant said:

His increased metabolism isn't at the point of superhuman, still quite noticeably useful but more akin to the Flash, now that I think about it. I thought it balanced nicely seeing as he would be forced to consume lots of food, and seeing as food probably would be a little hard to find in the amounts he needs. So an enemy can easily take advantage of him when he is tired or fatigued, so if a fight is long and drawn out, the more weaker he will get.

I will explain his ability to make instant connections in deeper as I have developed the ability to be alot more than it is.

I cannot believe you were bothered to research that wow. The drug cartels could of course be different in the Reckoners series. I thought this was meant to be in a realm different to our own, If they have Epics, then why not gold-mining criminals?

Oh as for "lost the will to live", I just relised that was a mistake, what I was meant to write was that he went on a rampage killing lots of folk and then Diablo killed him.I also press that DIablo is at heart an EPIC, not like you, any show of weakness could be seen as intolerable to him.I rectified the whole can combat the darkness and will update the post.

Darkness, please stop being so defensive. The whole point of this thread is to allow established players to give feedback on new characters to ensure they'll integrate into the game well. Cog pointed out some valid concerns that, if left unaddressed, will lead to problems down the road. As you've written your characters, they will not fit in this game and will cause issues for other players. Those concerns need to be addressed, because the collaborative nature of this game means that cooperation is key. 

Research for characters is not as unbelievable as you seem to think; in this game, it's both common and encouraged. Most players here are not from Oregon, so they went through the towns we're using on Google Maps. This often turned up interesting little tidbits that were incorporated into the game. You'll see a lot of science-savvy players researching how physics will interact with an Epic's physics-breaking powers. That Cog researched drug cartels so you didn't have to should be lauded. 

I know you want to join this game, but I'll be blunt: If you cannot take constructive criticism, then this game will not be fun for you. If you'd rather play your characters as-is, I'd suggest writing a fanfic. 

[Edgedancer he/him]

10 minutes ago, Cognizantastic said:

I also noticed that you haven't made comment on the canon nigh-impossibility of all of his closest friends gaining powers or my criticism about how he's based off of a video game character.

To be fair, with us all pretty much agreeing that he should keep to one maybe two characters max the probability question becomes rather unimportant.
As for him being based on a video game character, to be honest, even if I cared there already are enough characters around that have powers that blatently are from Brandon's other works, so it's not like we can start pulling the originality card now.

[Quiver he/him]

Jeez.

Sorry, ya'all. Saying 'I've been busy' doesn't quite wash as an excuse since I've been online, but...

Yeah. Sorry. Many andvery and much. I'll...try ad get posts for all my stuff up soon.

[Comatose he/him]

Speaking of researching stuff and cultural sensitivity...

As I've been reading up, I don't think the history I have planned for Rainmaker works with her Saudi-Arabian heritage.  Serves me right for not doing enough research at the beginning.  To remedy this, I'm thinking of changing her father to Iranian with Saudi-Arabian connections and interests.  I need to do more research before making the switch, but I thought I would check to see if there were any objections or helpful hints or advice first. 

 

Also, I'm aware I dropped the ball on getting the Altermind sample together.  In my defence, I was probably either looking at a new apartment or playing Pokemon go instead.   I'll try to finish up my review and get something together ASAP to @Mailliw73 has time to review before he leaves.   

[Quiver he/him]

Hmm. Actually...

I didn't research this, but I happened to read an essay on something which has directed me to the concept of 'splitting'; basically, it's a psychological coping mechanism, where a person identifies others as being all good, or all bad.

(Grossly simplified)

I've already kind of been playing with the idea that Lyla is, in some ways, 'broken', or at least manic; my mental image of her is that she smiles a little too wide, here eyes are a little too staring. But given her epic fanness, and the doctor it seems all encompassing...

Well, I'm wondering if splitting makes sense as a coping mechanism for her. She was a kid, growing up in the Dalles, under a tyrant epic. Would her developing that as a coping mechanism and applying it to everyone - epics are good, vanilla's are bad- make sense?

 of course, splitting is, apparently, a symptom of borderline personality disorder. And other symptoms include 'severe impulsibility', "intense emotional responses that seem disproportionate to the event', and distortion of identity, whichmight be reflected in her wishing she was an epic, so...

Yeah. Wondering if I should pursue this.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

2 hours ago, Quiver said:

Hmm. Actually...

I didn't research this, but I happened to read an essay on something which has directed me to the concept of 'splitting'; basically, it's a psychological coping mechanism, where a person identifies others as being all good, or all bad.

(Grossly simplified)

I've already kind of been playing with the idea that Lyla is, in some ways, 'broken', or at least manic; my mental image of her is that she smiles a little too wide, here eyes are a little too staring. But given her epic fanness, and the doctor it seems all encompassing...

Well, I'm wondering if splitting makes sense as a coping mechanism for her. She was a kid, growing up in the Dalles, under a tyrant epic. Would her developing that as a coping mechanism and applying it to everyone - epics are good, vanilla's are bad- make sense?

 of course, splitting is, apparently, a symptom of borderline personality disorder. And other symptoms include 'severe impulsibility', "intense emotional responses that seem disproportionate to the event', and distortion of identity, whichmight be reflected in her wishing she was an epic, so...

Yeah. Wondering if I should pursue this.

I think it'd make a lot of sense as a coping mechanism, though I personally think it might work better if she split them into camps based on Epics and people who side with them, versus people who fight Epics. That's just my opinion, though—I like the idea. 

[Quiver he/him]

6 minutes ago, TwiLyghtSansSparkles said:

I think it'd make a lot of sense as a coping mechanism, though I personally think it might work better if she split them into camps based on Epics and people who side with them, versus people who fight Epics. That's just my opinion, though—I like the idea. 

Yeah, that would make more sense; part of the roots of it was her parents telling her, basically, to go along with it. So, that would probably give a foundation for the idea that people who side with epics also qualify as "good"...

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

Guys. 

You remember that picture where I'm Yoda? (Okay, technically it's Funtimes, but it's from my avatar, so whatevs.) 

Apparently, that's truer than we all think. 

Spoiler

Yes, I'm an INTP. Same as Yoda, apparently. 

(And yes, I think all ESFJs have legal grounds to sue George Lucas.  ) 

 

[Edgedancer he/him]

8 hours ago, Quiver said:

Hmm. Actually...

I didn't research this, but I happened to read an essay on something which has directed me to the concept of 'splitting'; basically, it's a psychological coping mechanism, where a person identifies others as being all good, or all bad.

(Grossly simplified)

I've already kind of been playing with the idea that Lyla is, in some ways, 'broken', or at least manic; my mental image of her is that she smiles a little too wide, here eyes are a little too staring. But given her epic fanness, and the doctor it seems all encompassing...

Well, I'm wondering if splitting makes sense as a coping mechanism for her. She was a kid, growing up in the Dalles, under a tyrant epic. Would her developing that as a coping mechanism and applying it to everyone - epics are good, vanilla's are bad- make sense?

 of course, splitting is, apparently, a symptom of borderline personality disorder. And other symptoms include 'severe impulsibility', "intense emotional responses that seem disproportionate to the event', and distortion of identity, whichmight be reflected in her wishing she was an epic, so...

Yeah. Wondering if I should pursue this.

It's certainly something to think about. Although, you may want to consider that this would make a good number of people in the Dalles "evil".

4 hours ago, Cognizantastic said:

With every passing post, I grow more disturbed by Shiny Sparkle. 

So, good job @Edgedancer!

Whatever may you be talking about. 

[Kobold King he/him]

So, just checking here...

Team Voidgaze is currently either out of sync with time or outside of Quota's range, I'm guessing? But Backtrack and Lightwards should both be affected by the Sonic Depressionboom, right?

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

10 minutes ago, Kobold King said:

So, just checking here...

Team Voidgaze is currently either out of sync with time or outside of Quota's range, I'm guessing? But Backtrack and Lightwards should both be affected by the Sonic Depressionboom, right?

Yes. Edge and I will sync Team Voidgaze back up in a few posts....after I've taken my term and stopped procrastinating. 

[Kobold King he/him]

Post up! I call it, In Which Backtrack Meets A Vanilla Who's More Badchull Than Him, And Lightwards Shows Horrifying Disrespect For Human Life. Or, business as usual.

 

 

Hopefully Lightwards' little breakdown isn't too melodramatic. I did some quick reading on what a PTSD panic attack feels like, and combined it with Adelmo's reaction as a precedent for what exactly the Quotabomb feels like.

Lightwards is a little on the melodramatic side anyway.