[BoM]Cosmere entry level

[Oversleep]

So you see, I was talking with my friend who read most of the books (SA & Mistborn), but had practically zero cosmere knowledge. You know: for example he thought Reckoners are cosmere. Right now he finished Shadows Of Self.

I tried to explain to him cosmere a little, but I found the amount of information to convey pretty high. And then I realized that almost nobody in my country knows about Kelsier not really being dead. So I will probably have to write article about some cosmere stuff before BoM is released and throw the Kelsier stuff in as if it's not a huge plot point. And probably some hints about Southern Scadrial.

Being on the 17thShard, it's pretty easy to forget that many readers do not obsessively hunt cosmere hints as we do
There is what, one throwaway line in SoS when Harmony mentions "the ones who were nearly destroyed"? Can't remember more hints about Southeners.
So casual readers are gonna pick up BoM and end up thinking that Brandon is pulling chulldung out of thin air. "What? Southern Scadrial? What?! KELSIER'S ALIVE?!"
Because Kelsier not being dead... You have to know what you're looking for in HoA and Marasi briefly mentions Kelsier surpassing death and Ascending and that's about it.

So how about we make some Cosmere Guide for Beginners? Cosmere 101 thread is useful, but outdated. Your thoughts?

 

P.S. here's an example: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/53499-disappointed-with-bands-of-mourning-help/

Edited March 17, 2016 by Oversleep

[natc]

Well depending on how that body works he might still technically be dead. Death just doesn't stop him anymore . . . truly a Survivor.

I would say any of Harmony's slips about technology Elendel lacks is a hint towards the other civilization. Machines and devices that can be made using scientific processes and rules are human-constructed concepts actualized by science, not fundamental existences. Harmony would know what "electromagnetic radiation" is, most likely, as well as electricity and maybe even how you can convert one into another and back while still retaining specific characteristics of the original electric pulse. But what the hell is a "radio"? He would only know of those if someone had already made them and he found out.

[Kingsdaughter613]

I think that might have been from the old civilization though. Before Rashek messed things up. They were on that technological level.

With regard to Kelsier, Brandon did do a lot of foreshadowing through the beliefs of the Church of the Survivor. It's also in the HoA annotations, AND Sazed briefly mentions him, which lead to Brandon reconfirming in those annotations. That was how I found out. Am I the only one who reads those things?

I also think it was fairly obvious who Sovereign was, if you knew anything about the characters. My tip off? “Well, yah, but everyone interprets it as a challenge. A test sent by the Sovereign? He was fond of those. Why would he let priests tell us about them, if he didn’t want us to come claim them?" This sounds EXACTLY like who it turned out be. Add in the Church of the Survivor foreshadowing? Marasi pretty much gives the whole thing away in the graveyard sequence.

To be fair I DID realize Harry and Ginny were going to end up together in book one... and called Ron/Hermione too. I was six, and only two books had been released. And when all I knew about Star Wars was some lego minifigures and the first paragraph of the Phantom Menace book I called Anakin being Vader. (I literally knew nothing of Star Wars at the time.) So maybe I'm just crazy?

South Scadrians are a bigger surprise, but looking back you can find the hints and get a 'oh that's what it was! I totally missed that!" moment on reread. And there is still book three to give context... whenever we get it...

Here is the quote I felt gave it away. "The Survivor himself, of course, broke the rules. He always had. Doctrine explained he was not dead, but surviving—and planning to return in their time of greatest need. But if the end of the world hadn’t been enough to get him to return in his glory, then what could possibly do so?" I read this and was, like, Brandon, there had BETTER be a good reason why you are hitting me over the head with this in this book. Are you finally bringing Kelsier back into play? I half expected the Survivor to show up in person at that point...

And upon rereading the annotations I came upon this gem: The Final Empire is at the North Pole. What's at the South Pole. Hum, I wonder?

Edited March 17, 2016 by Kingsdaughter613

[Young Bard]

Yeahhh... If you look at the end of this, I said I was going to get to it. I just got a little sidetracked. I'd had plans to basically outline big stuff in broad strokes, and then have examples of greater cosmere easter eggs in spoiler tags per novel. Nice theory. Now I need to get it together and write the thing.

[Orlion Blight]

I think you are over complicating things. All you need to say is that:

There are several worlds.

There are these things called Shards. The chapter epigraphs in Hero of Ages talk a little about them.

Reckoners is not Cosmere.

Oh, and I guess there are world hoppers engaged in a mysterious back story.

That's really it. Anything else they can find out on their own or ask you about. Doing more just kinda ruins the fun, I think.

[Kingsdaughter613]

You may want to suggest reading the annotations to HoA. It has a lot of the more surprising things hinted at.

[Orlion Blight]

Nah. I think I briefly explained a couple of things, but even those now get explained during the normal course of reading.

Of course, my friend isn't fanatical about the books even if she is a big fan. Someone who hungers for every little bit of information would benefit from knowing the annotations exist.

[Curiosity]

I think you are over complicating things. All you need to say is that:

There are several worlds.

There are these things called Shards. The chapter epigraphs in Hero of Ages talk a little about them.

Reckoners is not Cosmere.

Oh, and I guess there are world hoppers engaged in a mysterious back story.

That's really it. Anything else they can find out on their own or ask you about. Doing more just kinda ruins the fun, I think.

 

This is the way to do it. Only once my brother has finished the original Mistborn trilogy will I begin to hint at a larger story, and he'll figure it out eventually. Being told that there's a shared universe is much less cool than hearing echoes, then whispers, then hints, and finally confirmation. 

[Oversleep]

I think you are over complicating things. All you need to say is that:

There are several worlds.

There are these things called Shards. The chapter epigraphs in Hero of Ages talk a little about them.

Reckoners is not Cosmere.

Oh, and I guess there are world hoppers engaged in a mysterious back story.

That's really it. Anything else they can find out on their own or ask you about. Doing more just kinda ruins the fun, I think.

So why are we pointing newcomers to Cosmere 101 and coppermind instead of saying this four sentences?

 

You may want to suggest reading the annotations to HoA. It has a lot of the more surprising things hinted at.

Ah, if only I could do that. Unfortunately common reaction to pointing people to coppermind or annotations is "My English is not that good". Since people practically asked me to explain things... Well, I try to balance between giving info and spoilering things. My gameplan is to translate coppermind while cutting out everything from books not released in Poland.

 

This is the way to do it. Only once my brother has finished the original Mistborn trilogy will I begin to hint at a larger story, and he'll figure it out eventually. Being told that there's a shared universe is much less cool than hearing echoes, then whispers, then hints, and finally confirmation. 

Well, I try not to spoiler anything.

And the method you use probably would work... The thing is, the order we're getting books is WoK -> WoR -> Mistborn Trilogy reprint -> AoL reprint-> SoS -> we're here now -> future: BoM -> TES -> Elantris reprint -> Oathbringer -> Warbreaker reprint

Most people (I'd say 95% of Polish readers) haven't read Elantris nor Warbreaker. I myself almost had to sign a bloodpact to find a library which had them.

Yes, we will get Oathbringer before Warbreaker. Do I have to say anything about reveals being ruined? Certain swords and characters showing up in different books?

I wrote my first article, about Adonalsium, Shards, Intents, Slivers and Splinter after HoA reprint and before AoL reprint. I figured it wouldn't spoiler anything at this point and after SoS it became quite important because people knew about Shards so they figured out that this new god "Trell" can be a Shard.

I am mostly translating coppermind anyway. I don't go and say "oh look, remember that passage when this messeneger from Helaran drank poison? That's Hoid and he's an Allomancer!" or "remember that Blade Dalinar got? It's not a Honorblade and...". Instead of saying "Shallash is the one breaking art" I say "All the Heralds are to be found in the book".

When somebody was profoundly confused about the Blades and asked whether it's a mistake and why doesn't it scream, I advised to take a closer look at descriptions in WoK and WoR. Then after some discussion and people going in completely wrong direction I dropped the quotations from the books about the Blades, proving that they're not the same and admitting that it's not a Honorblade since it doesn't scream.

Right now, since we're after SoS, I can probably say something about Kelsier surviving death and whispering to Spook and holding Preservation before Vin. Marasi mentioned it; I will do whatever I can to avoid spoilering.

Right now I am writing an article about Investiture (that term translated so badly that it makes me grit my teeth whenever I think about it) and focuses and Realms. Some explaining about Hemalurgy (c'mon, we're after SoS). Some explaining about Snapping and Surgebinders being broken; what does it mean for magic to be net-positive or net-negative, things like that.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Oversleep

[Orlion Blight]

Ah, that does change things. I take access to Brandon's books for granted.

Personally, I have not pointed anyone to the coppermind or Cosmere 101... But a lot of that has to do with the individual I'm introducing the Cosmere to. In your case, I would start the explanation with the Letter found in the epigraphs of Part 2 in Way of Kings, since that is what you guys have ready access to. I would wait to see if they notice Hoid before explaining him as a worldhopper. That's just me.

As far as Warbreaker is concerned, explain it as a prequel to some...elements...found in the Stormlight Archives. In fact, Brandon has described them as such. Sure, they don't get the awesome feeling at the end of Words of Radiance, but based on the access of the books in your language, that unfortunately can not be helped.

[natc]

I was under the impression that Warbreaker is free on Brandon's site.

Or was that a different book I was thinking about?

[Orlion Blight]

I was under the impression that Warbreaker is free on Brandon's site.

Or was that a different book I was thinking about?

A good point, though I think part of the issue is finding Warbreaker in Polish.

[natc]

I see . . .

We need some Duralumin ferrings XD

How bad is the friend's English exactly?

[Oversleep]

I see . . .

We need some Duralumin ferrings XD

How bad is the friend's English exactly?

You see, the friend I talked about in the first post? He can read it. He'd read SA in English. I will point him to Warbreaker.

But the Polish fandom as a whole? (Or rather that part which is in FB group and reads the fansite?) Damnation, no. There are some people able to read in English, but it's a margin. Majority have problems with understanding things written in English (this may be the cause of the low amount of Polish Sharders - there are what, four of us?). Or maybe they're unfamiliar with the terminology of cosmere - some people commented on my article about the Shards that it took them a while to process all of that.