theory What Shardplate is made of

[Oversleep]

First, a WoB that got me thinking:
 

 

Argent: Since both the mists and Stormlight are very similar in many ways, are there gaseous, liquid, and solid states of Stormlight?

A: RAFO, but you know that there is a gas and a liquid.

Argent: The gas is just the stuff in the storms, right?

A: Yeah, and when it escapes from the gemstones

Not-Argent: Isn’t there the lake?

A: The lake is liquid. So you know there’s two of the three already. So just sayin’...

source.

Theory: Shardplate is made of solid Stormlight.
Now I don't have quotes on me, but when Shardblade (which is also solid Investiture, as it's spren pulled into Physical) destroys part of Shardplate, it explodes: there are drops of molten metal and Stormlight leaking out (Stormlight is from the gems powering the armor), but metal which was solid became liquid.
It fits with the theory that Radiants grow Shardplate similarly to Listeners growing carapace and other lifeforms growing shells and whatnot.

P.S. What lake they're talking about? 0.0

 

[stonedshaman]

I belive they mean the shard pool in the horneater peaks but i could be wrong

[Patrick Star]

I've been saying this for a while, but shardplate seems to have an odd crystal-like structure.

 

The process of rebuilding shardplate reeks of crystal seeding, and we've seen stormlight crystallize when Kaladin powers up.

 

The thing that bugs me is the melting part of the shardplate.  When you break it, it liquifies.  That's not a property of crystals.  It may imply that the stormlight is superheated, though.

[Stormgate he/him]

I HAVE HAD THIS THEORY FOR SO LONG! I definitely think that's what it is and I really want a Mistborn to burn a small piece of Shardplate. I think it would be a twisted version of pewter burning, but the only evidence I have of that is that atium gives a twisted version of electrum. A more powerful version.

[Vander]

P.S. What lake they're talking about? 0.0

 

I belive they mean the shard pool in the horneater peaks but i could be wrong

Wrong. The Eye of the World. 

[King's Twit he/him]

Since there are at least two Shards on Roshar, even if one of them is splintered, I would think that there might be two lakes, the other being the Purelake

 

 

First, a WoB that got me thinking:
 

source.

Theory: Shardplate is made of solid Stormlight.
Now I don't have quotes on me, but when Shardblade (which is also solid Investiture, as it's spren pulled into Physical) destroys part of Shardplate, it explodes: there are drops of molten metal and Stormlight leaking out (Stormlight is from the gems powering the armor), but metal which was solid became liquid.
It fits with the theory that Radiants grow Shardplate similarly to Listeners growing carapace and other lifeforms growing shells and whatnot.

P.S. What lake they're talking about? 0.0

 

I do not believe that Shardblades or Plate are solid stormlight, or whatever we'd call the solid manifestation of Honor's/Cultivation's Investiture. They are solid manifestations of Investiture which previously did not take a tangible form in the physical realm, the spren, because they existed instead in the cognitive realm. Blades and Plate are solid Investiture in the same way that everything in the physical realm is solid/liquid/gaseous Investiture that has been filtered through the cognitive realm, but they are not the solid form of a Shard's Investiture condensed in the physical realm, like Atium for example.

 

 

I HAVE HAD THIS THEORY FOR SO LONG! I definitely think that's what it is and I really want a Mistborn to burn a small piece of Shardplate. I think it would be a twisted version of pewter burning, but the only evidence I have of that is that atium gives a twisted version of electrum. A more powerful version.

 

I'm curious: why pewter? I understand the logic in thinking that it probably parallels one of the base metals, I'm just wondering how you came to the conclusion that it would be pewter. Is it because of what using Stormlight does to the body when you breath it in?

Edited February 16, 2016 by King's Twit

[Oversleep]

Since there are at least two Shards on Roshar, even if one of them is splintered, I would think that there might be two lakes, the other being the Purelake

 Purelake is far too big for Shardpool; also, being in a Shardpool would do some things to the people (Elantrians basically dissolve in Devotion's Shardpool, Well Of Ascension is another example; worldhoppers use them as gateaway to Shadesmar).

I do not believe that Shardblades or Plate are solid stormlight, or whatever we'd call the solid manifestation of Honor's/Cultivation's Investiture. They are solid manifestations of Investiture which previously did not take a tangible form in the physical realm, the spren, because they existed instead in the cognitive realm. Blades and Plate are solid Investiture in the same way that everything in the physical realm is solid/liquid/gaseous Investiture that has been filtered through the cognitive realm, but they are not the solid form of a Shard's Investiture condensed in the physical realm, like Atium for example.

The thing is, Shardblade on its own is very heavily Invested (I believe even more than atium - Shardblade would be very hard to Push on and Vin did Pull atium to swallow it) and it does not take in any Stormlight. So it is definitely not just solid manifestation of Investiture as everything else.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Oversleep

[King's Twit he/him]

 Purelake is far too big for Shardpool; also, being in a Shardpool would do some things to the people (Elantrians basically dissolve in Devotion's Shardpool, Well Of Ascension is another example; worldhoppers use them as gateaway to Shadesmar).

 

The "oceans" atop the horneater peaks seem pretty big too, though, and at least one of those, possibly all of them, are shardpools. And the horneaters swim in them too. I don't know if we can generalize common traits across shardpools, since we've seen so few and the Well appears to be an anomaly, since its power is contained in a small pit and can easily be taken up by seemingly anyone. Also there is at least one possible effect caused by the Purelake: the supposedly magical fish that could help with so many different things, which were brought up in that interlude with the 17th Sharders.

 

 

 

The thing is, Shardblade on its own is very heavily Invested (I believe even more than atium - Shardblade would be very hard to Push on and Vin did Pull atium to swallow it) and it does not take in any Stormlight. So it is definitely not just solid manifestation of Investiture as everything else.

 

But per WoB, Nightblood is "far beyond" a Shardblade, in terms of Investment and how difficult he would be to steelpush. Since Atium seems to be below both of these objects, I would imagine that the factor which affects whether or not something can be easily affected with allomancy is not how pure the Investiture is, but rather the density of Investiture. Nightblood was created with lots of Investiture, but does not seem to be a solid manifestation of Endowment's power like the Godmetals are for Ruin and Preservation. I believe that the same can be said about Shardblades and Plate, but we will have to RAFO to find out whether or not that is true.

Edited February 16, 2016 by King's Twit

[Darkness he/him]

The "oceans" atop the horneater peaks seem pretty big too, though, and at least one of those, possibly all of them, are shardpools. And the horneaters swim in them too. I don't know if we can generalize common traits across shardpools, since we've seen so few and the Well appears to be an anomaly, since its power is contained in a small pit and can easily be taken up by seemingly anyone. Also there is at least one possible effect caused by the Purelake: the supposedly magical fish that could help with so many different things, which were brought up in that interlude with the 17th Sharders.

 

 

But per WoB, Nightblood is "far beyond" a Shardblade, in terms of Investment and how difficult he would be to steelpush. Since Atium seems to be below both of these objects, I would imagine that the factor which affects whether or not something can be easily affected with allomancy is not how pure the Investiture is, but rather the density of Investiture. Nightblood was created with lots of Investiture, but does not seem to be a solid manifestation of Endowment's power like the Godmetals are for Ruin and Preservation. I believe that the same can be said about Shardblades and Plate, but we will have to RAFO to find out whether or not that is true.

... Spoilers for Mistborn: Secret Histories and Bands of Mourning

 

 

The multi metalled spearhead that Kaladin unkeyed was ridiculously hard to push on and sense as well... so much so that they thought it was aluminum as they walked by. I'm kind of sad that Wayne didn't brush it with his hand as he snatched it and go "wow! I can heal from a bazooka with this thing!"

 

What I'm saying is that the investiture influences not only how much the object can be affected by allomancy, but also how well you can even sense the object in the first place. I'm trying to reconcile a few things here:

 

Remember: For Scadrial, this could be connected to Ati and Leras' particular inability to see metals as anything more than a source of light. We don't know if other shards would have the same difficulty (would Odium be able to see metals clearly? Would Odium be able to view spren clearly?)

 

Also, considering the bands of mourning are completely unkeyed with respect to identity and filled with pure investiture, the difficulty pushing on them doesn't have to do with the origin of the investiture (i.e. pushing a spren vs. pushing an awakened thing vs. pushing a feruchemically charged metal). It more has to do with the fact that they are invested period. So I would tend to agree that the purity/wavelength/type of the investiture - while it matters for the effect the consumer experiences - does not make a difference to the one trying to push/surgebind/whatever the invested object.

 

It also seems that "size matters [little]", in that more investiture = more interference. You can stuff more investiture into a larger object, sure, that was shown with Sazed talking about the small size of his rings; but even the smallish spearhead had enough investiture to be invisible allomantically to the highly refined senses of Wax. I would assume that mundane objects of smallish size could be invested enough that they could be mistaken for solid investiture. There is also the point that Vin pulled on atium...

 

In conclusion, I suppose shard plate could be solid investiture, but measuring how much it can be affected by surgebinding isn't a reliable source of proof to me.

[Jondesu he/him]

The "oceans" atop the horneater peaks seem pretty big too, though, and at least one of those, possibly all of them, are shardpools. And the horneaters swim in them too. I don't know if we can generalize common traits across shardpools, since we've seen so few and the Well appears to be an anomaly, since its power is contained in a small pit and can easily be taken up by seemingly anyone. Also there is at least one possible effect caused by the Purelake: the supposedly magical fish that could help with so many different things, which were brought up in that interlude with the 17th Sharders.

Rock says that the waters up above are normal, but underneath is the water of the gods.  I think the Shardpool (pools?) are under the water, but they do have an influence on the normal water on top.  Having a Shardpool in the Purelake wouldn't mean the whole thing was a Shardpool, but it could have a Cultivating influence is that's Cultivation's Shardpool.

 

“They’re just hot springs,” Sigzil grumbled, but returned to his drink.

Rock rolled his eyes. “On top, is water. Beneath, is not. Is something else. Water of life. The place of the gods.”

 

jW

Edited February 17, 2016 by Jondesu

[natc]

... Spoilers for Mistborn: Secret Histories and Bands of Mourning

The multi metalled spearhead that Kaladin unkeyed was ridiculously hard to push on and sense as well... so much so that they thought it was aluminum as they walked by. I'm kind of sad that Wayne didn't brush it with his hand as he snatched it and go "wow! I can heal from a bazooka with this thing!"

What I'm saying is that the investiture influences not only how much the object can be affected by allomancy, but also how well you can even sense the object in the first place. I'm trying to reconcile a few things here:

Remember: For Scadrial, this could be connected to Ati and Leras' particular inability to see metals as anything more than a source of light. We don't know if other shards would have the same difficulty (would Odium be able to see metals clearly? Would Odium be able to view spren clearly?)

Also, considering the bands of mourning are completely unkeyed with respect to identity and filled with pure investiture, the difficulty pushing on them doesn't have to do with the origin of the investiture (i.e. pushing a spren vs. pushing an awakened thing vs. pushing a feruchemically charged metal). It more has to do with the fact that they are invested period. So I would tend to agree that the purity/wavelength/type of the investiture - while it matters for the effect the consumer experiences - does not make a difference to the one trying to push/surgebind/whatever the invested object.

It also seems that "size matters [little]", in that more investiture = more interference. You can stuff more investiture into a larger object, sure, that was shown with Sazed talking about the small size of his rings; but even the smallish spearhead had enough investiture to be invisible allomantically to the highly refined senses of Wax. I would assume that mundane objects of smallish size could be invested enough that they could be mistaken for solid investiture. There is also the point that Vin pulled on atium...

In conclusion, I suppose shard plate could be solid investiture, but measuring how much it can be affected by surgebinding isn't a reliable source of proof to me.

Well investiture is the building block of the Cosmere, so of course any odd object invested enough would behave similarly to "solid investiture".

Wayne would not have been able to tap it anyway until he had deduced that the spearhead was a metalmind.

Metals glow on (physical) Scadrial, apparently, because the power of the shards in the spiritual realm tries to push through them. Metal isn't really associated with magic elsewhere and probably won't have that problem. The issue also doesn't seem to extend to the cognitive realm, as far as we can tell from Secret History, which is where spren are from. They are primarily made of the power anyway.

[ChickenChaser]

This is my first comment, and I apologize in advance if my format is not easy to read.

 

I've been re-reading WoK, specifically interludes and dream sequences, and found a clue as to the nature of Shard Plate. At least, a Radiant's Shard Plate. This is all in the same dream sequence, and in order, with the text in between trimmed out.

 

"The woman had light tan eyes that almost seemed to glow in the night, and she wore no helm."

 

I'm starting here. Throughout both books the helm being tied off to something, or simply being left on with the visor up is always described. Its never left out of the description of a Plate wearer.

 

"The female Shardbearer turned to Dalinar. She had her helm on now. When had she put it on?"

 

"Dalinar turned to find the male Shardbearer regarding him. Where had the man's helm gone?"

 

I would like your thoughts on the implications. I have my own theories, but I'd like to hear some commentary first.