Ones Above Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 So my friend asked me a question. If a radiant worldhopped to lets say scadrial, would he still be able to summon his shardblade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ There is a lot we don't know about worldhoppers. We know that Allomancy works offworld. We know that Hemalurgy can be used anywhere, but it probably require making adjustments. We know that a Returned can feed himself with Stormlight. We know there is an Elantrian on Roshar, Terriswoman on Nalthis...Hoid uses Yolen Lightweaving off-Yolen, but Hoid is everything but ordinary, so I don't know if his case should be included.And that's basically all we know about using magic off-world. You probably should ask these kind of questions in "Question and Answer" thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khyrindor Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 I think it's likely that you can use Shardblades on other worlds. Shardblades are connected to a person Spiritually, not Cognitively, and there is no such thing as distance in the Spiritual Realm. Your connection to your Shardblade would be with you anywhere you go, similar to the connection to Preservation as an allomancer. @Oversleep, and Elantrian on Roshar wouldn't be able to retain his powers unless they brought some of the Dor with them. The power is weird on Sel. The Dor is in the Cognitive Realm for some reason, which IS locational. However, if an Elantrian somehow managed to survive in the Cognitive Realm (The Dor is running rampant there, and it is raw power), they could probably pick up some of the Dor in a container of some kind, and bring it with them. That way, they would have access to it wherever they went, and retain their immortality. If they manipulated their connection to a place later on however, their Connection to Elantris would temporarily go away, which is why Galladon could speak the language of the Purelakers and not glow silver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 @Oversleep, and Elantrian on Roshar wouldn't be able to retain his powers unless they brought some of the Dor with them. The power is weird on Sel. The Dor is in the Cognitive Realm for some reason, which IS locational. However, if an Elantrian somehow managed to survive in the Cognitive Realm (The Dor is running rampant there, and it is raw power), they could probably pick up some of the Dor in a container of some kind, and bring it with them. That way, they would have access to it wherever they went, and retain their immortality. If they manipulated their connection to a place later on however, their Connection to Elantris would temporarily go away, which is why Galladon could speak the language of the Purelakers and not glow silver. Yeah, I know all of this. But the mere fact that Elantrian survived leaving Sel meant something and that's why I included it in my summary. Knowing this it's pretty obvious that he must have some work-around, because without Dor he would die like TLR without atiumminds. Maybe he uses Stormlight, maybe he has brought Dor with him, we don't know. Do we know that Galladon manipulated his Connection? He also could have just learned the language, you know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khyrindor Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) Do we know that Galladon manipulated his Connection? He also could have just learned the language, you know... That's true, but they seemed to be just passing through a small territory. I doubt the Seventeenth Shard knows all the languages. Why would they need to, if they have magic that lets them temporarily turn into a native speaker. Besides, Galladon isn't shining silver, so if he does have access to the Dor, he's doing something. Edited February 12, 2016 by Khyrindor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustbringer Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Id say only in the case of the nahel bond. The nahel bond deeply connects the spren to the surgebinder. Allowing it the greater physical aspect required to bestow its abilities. Remember a shardblade is a spren(also a sliver). So long as the bonds connection is maintained i think the spren who are based in the cognitive realm could manifest on another world. Dead spren shardblades however im undecided on. I know from reading a WoB and a certain spoilerishly recent event that crystals hold some kind of significance in the cosmere. The question is whether the way the dead spren are bonded via the crystals is substantial to maintain the blades physical existence if transfered beyond roshar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Id say only in the case of the nahel bond. The nahel bond deeply connects the spren to the surgebinder. Allowing it the greater physical aspect required to bestow its abilities. Remember a shardblade is a spren(also a sliver). So long as the bonds connection is maintained i think the spren who are based in the cognitive realm could manifest on another world. Dead spren shardblades however im undecided on. I know from reading a WoB and a certain spoilerishly recent event that crystals hold some kind of significance in the cosmere. The question is whether the way the dead spren are bonded via the crystals is substantial to maintain the blades physical existence if transfered beyond roshar Slight correction: Spren are Splinters, not Slivers. On the question I'm not entirely sure, most magic requires certain hacks to be used off-world, Spren presumably have a pretty darn strong connection to Roshar and I'm not sure you could get them off-world without either killing them or some major magic hacks of some kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) On the question I'm not entirely sure, most magic requires certain hacks to be used off-world, Spren presumably have a pretty darn strong connection to Roshar and I'm not sure you could get them off-world without either killing them or some major magic hacks of some kind. Well only Sel's Magic has a real problem to be used off-world. The others may be used without much trouble (the ones who need "Fuel" may find another source). But on Roshar something strange happens, there the Symbiotic Magic became stronger than any other place in the Cosmoverse. This "upgrade" may develops Power in outsiders Bonds (for example Seon's Bond) while they are on Roshar. Therefore probably what we see as "Knight-Radiant's Magic System" is powered over his "normal power" (something like AonDor inside Elantris), we don't know what they lost if they leave Roshar. Maybe their Surge became less powerful/flexible, or maybe they can't use the Shardblade/Shardplate in place where the walls between Cognitive and Physical Ream are stronger. Edited February 12, 2016 by Yata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Well only Sel's Magic has a real problem to be used off-world. The others may be used without much trouble (the ones who need "Fuel" may find another source). But on Roshar something strange happens, there the Symbiotic Magic became stronger than any other place in the Cosmoverse. This "upgrade" may develops Power in outsiders Bonds (for example Seon's Bond) while they are on Roshar. Therefore probably what we see as "Knight-Radiant's Magic System" is powered over his "normal power" (something like AonDor inside Elantris), we don't know what they lost if they leave Roshar. Maybe their Surge became less powerful/flexible, or maybe they can't use the Shardblade/Shardplate in place where the walls between Cognitive and Physical Ream are stronger. Sel's is the hardest I believe it was mentioned that Scadrial was the easiest but they all have problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) Sel's is the hardest I believe it was mentioned that Scadrial was the easiest but they all have problems. Scadrial has no problem at all (maybe just the Hemalurgy if I am right about its mechanism) also the Awekening may be used without trouble, you can't easy obtain new Breath this isn't a real "Awekening needs Hacking off-world". About Roshar we don't even know if Stormlight is H&C's Investiture. If Stormlight is pre-Shattering Investiture, it will probably be a great fuel for every Magic System. Edited February 12, 2016 by Yata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustbringer Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Slight correction: Spren are Splinters, not Slivers. On the question I'm not entirely sure, most magic requires certain hacks to be used off-world, Spren presumably have a pretty darn strong connection to Roshar and I'm not sure you could get them off-world without either killing them or some major magic hacks of some kind. I stand corrected, i wrote slivers of slivers and deleted it because it didnt read right. Forgot about the splinters cheers. I was inclined towards the theory because of a surgebinders specific connection to Honor and its intent through the radiant oaths. Those oaths become part of the surgebinders identity solidifying their connection to and thru its splinters. Who knows what level of connection a radiant who has sworn all the oaths is to their spren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Scadrial has no problem at all (maybe just the Hemalurgy if I am right about its mechanism) also the Awekening may be used without trouble, you can't easy obtain new Breath this isn't a real "Awekening needs Hacking off-world". About Roshar we don't even know if Stormlight is H&C's Investiture. If Stormlight is pre-Shattering Investiture, it will probably be a great fuel for every Magic System. Commands may be different depending on if they're cognitively dependant and you might lose the ability to actually Awaken if you're off-world, certain WoBs at least imply that messing with your connection is necessary for a lot of magics to work off-world. You'd still have the Breaths but you might lose the ability to drain colour from your surroundings to Awaken. Or it might not work on colour anymore, it might need Stormlight, or access to the Dor, or the mists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) Commands may be different depending on if they're cognitively dependant and you might lose the ability to actually Awaken if you're off-world, certain WoBs at least imply that messing with your connection is necessary for a lot of magics to work off-world. You'd still have the Breaths but you might lose the ability to drain colour from your surroundings to Awaken. Or it might not work on colour anymore, it might need Stormlight, or access to the Dor, or the mists. Unless we talk about 2 different WoB. Connection to Nalthis is a requirement to Awaken and therefore only people born on Nalthis may Awakenes without Hacking. But the connection to something is a Spiritual Attribute and space and time are meaningless to it. You have the same connection to Nalthis while you are on Nalthis or while you are on (for example) Scadrial. Therefore you may use the Awakening on Scadrial, but if you give your Breath to a nice Scadrial guy (after he win them at Poker of course), this guy can't use them to Awake anything, also if he travel back to Nalthis with you. (Maybe I wrote this in a messy manner, if it is too no-sense I will try better). Edited February 12, 2016 by Yata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustbringer Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Unless we talk about 2 different WoB. Connection to Nalthis is a requirement to Awaken and therefore only people born on Nalthis may Awakenes without Hacking. But the connection to something is a Spiritual Attribute and space and time are meaningless to it. You have the same connection to Nalthis while you are on Nalthis or while you are on (for example) Scadrial. Therefore you may use the Awakening on Scadrial, but if you give your Breath to a nice Scadrial guy (after he win them at Poker of course), this guy can't use them to Awake anything, also if he travel back to Nalthis with you. (Maybe I wrote this in a messy manner, if it is too no-sense I will try better). Then until we find out what the comparative equivalence of different shards investiture, its hard to postulate how much connection is required or if its even possible to carry a magic system without identity hacking. Stormlight seems like such a free form of investiture in the sense that it exists in a perpetual storm circling the world pouring out investiture like a sprinkler. Think of it like water in a tap. Roshar it rains, Scadrial; the metal burned are like coupons used to redeem a drink, nalthis everyones given a bottle, sel a few people are in charge of a well and the symbols inherent to its three magics is a release valve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustbringer Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) Also, the knowledge that aon dors influence decreases the further one gets from Elantris. Id argue that space and distance does play a deciding role. It was made clear that while a shard invests a whole world. That shards sphere of influence is limited to where they have rooted their power in the physical realm. I.e shardpools Edited February 12, 2016 by Voidus Secret History spoilers need to be marked in spoiler boxes outside the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Unless we talk about 2 different WoB. Connection to Nalthis is a requirement to Awaken and therefore only people born on Nalthis may Awakenes without Hacking. But the connection to something is a Spiritual Attribute and space and time are meaningless to it. You have the same connection to Nalthis while you are on Nalthis or while you are on (for example) Scadrial. Therefore you may use the Awakening on Scadrial, but if you give your Breath to a nice Scadrial guy (after he win them at Poker of course), this guy can't use them to Awake anything, also if he travel back to Nalthis with you. (Maybe I wrote this in a messy manner, if it is too no-sense I will try better). Connection is very much restricted by location, hence why you have a connection to a location, the Spritual realm may not have location but Spiritual properties can. Gravitational bonds are spiritual but still tied very much to a specific location. That's exactly the problem, you're on Scadrial but your magical connection is to Nalthis, locking you out of Scadrials native Investiture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustbringer Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 I wonder if an object of physical manifestation can work as key into another shards investiture, filtering it into an ambiguous raw form for the user. Like a nicrosil mind without imprinted identity. Maybe even stormlight infused gems could be carried offworld to fuel surgebinding. Could it be that we're looking at it the wrong way. That instead of hacking a planets magic system with identity connection. That there is a way to purify investiture of its shards origin, then use it to fuel at least some of the other magic systems. So rather than needing an access key one could just use primal investiture. The only influence on the investitures effect would be their own connection to their own magic system. All the power would have to do 'something' if given an intent natural to the user. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ookla the Absent Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 (edited) I can't find the WOB, but IIRC the mists on Scadrial can be used to fuel Surgebinding. Also, remember that the metals aren't the fuel for Allomancy, just a "key" to release the investature. Edited February 13, 2016 by Gargoyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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