How do they fill those in the first place? [Bands Spoilers]

[kabu]

I understand the idea behind the identity/nicrosil hack to create a universal unkeyed metalmind, but I'm still a bit confused about where the second metal's storage comes from. Let's say that, for example, somebody makes a nicrosil + steel medallion that anybody can use. Where does the speed in the steel come from? Is there somebody walking around who is permanently slow, having given up their speed to the steelmind segment? And is there somebody who has completely drained their investature to fill the nicrosil?

Similarly, how could metalminds like the spearhead grant somebody allomancy? So confused!

Thanks!

[kabu]

Did a bit of searching around the forum, and a few people have suggested that compounders could fill a metalmind without permanently draining their own resources, but I thought the southerners didn't have allomancers, given their reaction to Wax? Or maybe they have a set of metalminds the fireparents use that grant them misting-style allomancy, giving them the ability to compound when wearing them.

Edited January 30, 2016 by kabu

[Viridian she/her]

Eep, accidental downvote for kabu - can someone please fix it?? Was going to say something similar but you worded it better than I would have. Stupid clumsy fingers. So sorry!

[Pagerunner he/him]

Upvoted for you, Viridian.

 

All the medallions we've seen thus far grant Feruchemy,not Allomancy, but the bands did give Wax super-powered A.Steel. Remember, Nicrosil stores Investiture; it appears that it can store the ability to use any of the Metallic powers, whether Feruchemical or Allomatic. Medallions can provide an instant store, while a medal granting Allomancy would also have to come with a vial of metal. So Feruchemical medallions might just be more self-contained, which is why we've seen more of them.

 

As for how they filled Nicrosil medallions: I used to think like you do, that it was like storing memories, that you had to give it up to put your power in a Nicrosil metalmind. But someone else in another thread suggested that it might be more like storing an amount of time as an Allomancer. You spend three hours without your powers, you give someone else the ability to become an Allomancer for three hours. It would mean that Nicrosil storage would run out, as opposed to Copper storage, which comes out and goes back in. (Again, the question remains: how do they get enough Investiture storied in Nicrosil? More on that below...)

 

Mistings are rare in SoScad, but they aren't unheard of. They need someone with A.Steel to get their ship flying, remember? They are as uncommon in the south as they were before the Final Empire - and Alendi could use A.Brass. Also, the Sovereign had a spike through his eye - he could have given  them knowledge of Hemalurgy, and they could then kidnap Allomancers from the north and take their power.

 

We're told in the text that the heat medallions themselves are filled by Firemothers and Firefathers. We don't know any more specifics than that. If it's any consolation, the Set is just as confused as we are; Edwarn said they hadn't figured out how to refill the heat medallions. Compounding is the way that the Sovereign originally filled the Bands of Mourning, and the way that Wax thought to possibly refill them, so it was what I first through of, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the way the medallions are also filled. The southerners could possibly have other technology that lets them draw Investiture out of ettmetal and store it directly in medallions.

[Kelsier's Boxing Glove]

The real question is how/why do people gain the ability to use unlocked "double metalminds" only when they realize it might be a metalmind? As soon as Marasi was told the medallion will make her lighter, she became able to fill it. Same with the coin at the ending, it only started working when Wax thought it might.

 

Actually, can those iron medallions not be tapped? We never see anyone increase their weight with them, do we? Maybe these southern doubleminds are one way? But then, where does the stored power go to (or come from in case of tapped doubleminds)?

 

Also if heat medallions can't be recharged, then that's another question: why are iron doubleminds fillable by anyone while brass doubleminds aren't?

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Okay, I've edited the title of this thread, as not only did it include a MASSIVE spoiler it was also missing a spoiler tag.  Please read the current spoiler policy.

[TheOneKEA]

The real question is how/why do people gain the ability to use unlocked "double metalminds" only when they realize it might be a metalmind? As soon as Marasi was told the medallion will make her lighter, she became able to fill it. Same with the coin at the ending, it only started working when Wax thought it might.

 

Actually, can those iron medallions not be tapped? We never see anyone increase their weight with them, do we? Maybe these southern doubleminds are one way? But then, where does the stored power go to (or come from in case of tapped doubleminds)?

 

Also if heat medallions can't be recharged, then that's another question: why are iron doubleminds fillable by anyone while brass doubleminds aren't?

 

I believe that it has everything to do with cognitive perception. Basically, if you believe that it is a metalmind with a Metallic Power, then you become connected to it and are able to use its power.

 

For the same reason, I believe that the brass doubleminds are fillable, but that no one understands how yet, so the metalmind isn't connected to them in the manner needed to fill it.

[Copperkeep]

Wayne can't even tap an unkeyed Gold metalmind until he's told what it was. That's interesting- we *have* had it suggested that feruchemist has to be taught or experimented with to understand and use while allomancy is instinctual.

I'm pretty sure the medallions are two-way. Otherwise those things would be disposable throwaways, and that just seems odd to me when we don't have any reason to think they're like that. (Though, you know, can't you only store a certain amount of an attribute in a metalmind, so if you have an iron mind that you primarily use by filling it, would you eventually have to take it somewhere safe and empty it out by tapping extreme weight for a while? Then again, we've seen some huge amounts of power stored in relatively small metalminds.)

I'm pretty sure the Southerners have natural metal born. They're apparently treated as deities.

I'm surprised that the nicrosilminds that anyone can tap aren't bothering me more. The idea that those nicrosilminds each have to also grant the power to tap and store nicrosil, and that the nature of the metal somehow overcomes the catch-22 involved in that would probably be plausible, but I'm expecting there's more to it.

(I'm honestly more curious about the "allomantically grenades/primers" that store what some on this forum have called "kinetic investiture" and can do so without the understanding or permission of the one using them.)

Hmm. This reminds me somehow of those logic puzzles along the lines of "a is less than c but twice of b where c is half of x is 2 more than a...."

Okay, so we have mention of the "firemothers and firefathers" who I'm assuming for now are natural born brass ferrings. I'm not assuming they're natural compounders because apparently any given twinborn combination is so rare that Wax is one of only three recorded Crashers in history, and I'll leave aside for now the question of whether or not they can get compounding from medallions.

Natural born brass ferring of a race who require very high temperatures spends her life storing heat for other members of her community. Gets referred to as a god, which is frankly probably deserved if you're constantly storing an important attribute to act as life support for your society.

Constantly stores three attributes- warmth, investiture, and identity, in three different metalminds, two of which will go into an unkeyed metalmind medallion. So they have to get the power to store both investiture and identity from somewhere while also being a natural brass ferring. Since all of these powers are feruchemical, the possibility that they're twin born doesn't really come into it, I suppose.

You apparently can't tap two unkeyed nicrosilminds from different donors at once. I'll buy that limitation because this isn't hemalurgy and maybe the ability to share power and investiture without actually ripping human souls apart and killing people requires jumping through a lot more hoops.

I'm guessing the "excisors" Alex mentions might actually be sets of hemalurgic spikes that grant the power to store investiture and identity. Mostly because I'm getting a headache trying to wrap my mind around a perpetual cycle of these medallions being used in tandem working out.

So firemother has spikes that let her store investiture and identity, allowing her to make unkeyed brassminds and unkeyed nicrosilminds that grant access to the power to store brass.

(Then again, she probably doesn't have to fill the brassmind, just the nicrosilmind, then anyone who gets the medallion would be able to store warmth in it as a maintenance task. Except that in doing so they'd also be draining the nicrosilmind, so...)

But these medallions grant three feruchemical metals, if you count nicrosil among them. Nicrosil, Iron, and Brass, or Nicrosil, Iron, and Duralumin. Always iron, for those who work on airships.

Can firemother, with natural Feruchemical brass and the excisor spikes also hold a medallion from a Connector ferring, tap that investiture, and then tap the connection only to store it in another duralumin mind? It feels like this should encounter interference, since medallions that grant multiple metals are increasingly difficult to work on and nicrosilminds apparently interfere with each other?

Gaah, I don't feel like I'm getting any closer to the truth or understanding this. I'm not *good* at these kinds of logic puzzles, assuming we even have enough of the pieces to figure out the image. But I feel like this "excisor," whatever it really is, is the mystery we really need to be looking at.

[natc]

As said, the airship runs on coinshots, so likely someone on the crew had an allomantic steel medallion.

Feruchemy is just more convenient for survival and daily interactions in general, so no surprise we normally see those sorts and not allomancy ones.