The Myth of Focuses

[Confused]

My goal in this post is to debunk the very idea of focuses as an analytical tool. I don't think it adds anything to our understanding of how Cosmere magic works.

 

To me a “focus” is simply the Cognitive Realm means of accessing power on a given planet to achieve a desired Physical Realm magical effect. Period. Let’s look at the most relevant WoBs on this subject:

 

“QUESTION
My question is, what 'causes' an effect in the end for Allomancy? You've got Investiture being filtered through a metal, but does putting it through the metal turn the Investiture cause a Steelpush, or is it putting the Investiture through your soul that causes it? At what point do you turn Preservation's Investiture into a Steelpush, or is there no one 'point' where it happens?
 
BRANDON SANDERSON
Okay, imagine you've got one of those play-dough machines you can stuff with dough, then press a handle on the top to make a little snake-like tube of play-dough squirt out.

Those have appendages you can affix to the front to change the shape of the tube that comes out. The metals are the appendage that determines the shape of the power released, but only certain souls can unlock those metals and use them.”
(source)

“QUESTION
If metals shape the Investiture in Allomancy, causing a Steelpush or whatever, how is it that the mists can be used to perform the same feat? What is 'shaping' the inhaled mists into a Steelpush, if there's no metal "nozzle" to do so?
 
BRANDON SANDERSON
Consistently through the cosmere, once you have the power in hand and it has permeated you, will becomes your nozzle. This can be seen in Warbreaker, where the power has been distributed and inhabits the people. The nozzle idea is important for Magics that are drawing power externally, as it keeps the power from overwhelming and destroying you. (Which, basically, happened to Vin at the end of the Trilogy--she got consumed by the magic. She became something new, now, so it didn't KILL her. It destroyed what she was, transformed her into something else.)

So you see magics like on Sel and Scadrial where a specific nozzle is needed--as the power source is external, at least with Allomancy. Will and intent take a backseat, though still pop up on occasion. On Nalthis (and in a lesser way, Roshar) will and intent are more important, and what you are trying to do shapes the magic more directly.

A little direct manifestation in this is found in the subtle differences between Allomancy and Feruchemy. In Allomancy, when you enhance the senses, you just get a blast of power--and all senses are enhanced, whether you want them all or not. In Feruchemy, you can be more precise, and pick a specific sense to store. The power is internal here, and therefore more limited in how much you can draw--but you can also be more precise with its manipulation.

Note that Roshar Surgebinding is a special case, as the magical symbiosis there is stronger than it is on other worlds, as much of the magic involves bits of power who have become sapient.”
(source)

 

Whether you call them "filters" or "nozzles" or “focuses,” they all do the same thing - give the magician access to power. They are gateways, conduits only. “Shaping” the power is just a metaphoric term to describe how the magician controls the magical effect he/she/it desires.

 

The amount of investiture comprising the magician matters. Greater minds wield greater power. Nozzles are needed for us lesser mortals to avoid Icarus's fate, but greater minds like Shards can wield power through will alone. One doesn't need a special concept called "focuses" to explain any of this.

[Moogle]

I think there's something of value to the idea of a focus.

 

Focuses take the place of a mind. Consider the example of Vin burning iron, where she simply feels a reserve of power inside her and then flips a mental switch and sees blue lines point to metal. She then manipulates a blue line, sending a piece of metal flying at herself.

 

At no point in this process was Vin required to understand what she was doing, that her ability let her sense metals or that it would allow her to pull them. She did not desire to do any specific thing - but power needs direction. Her will was not invoked - the metal took power in the Spiritual and transformed it through its own metallic structure, and Vin's only participation in the process was opening the floodgates (and mentally selecting a blue line - it is an exaggeration to say her will did not come into part at all).

 

As Sazed puts it:

I believe that the mists were searching for someone to become a new host for them. The power needed a consciousness to direct it. In this matter, I am still rather confused. Why would power used to create and destroy need a mind to oversee it? And yet, it seems to have only a vague will of its own, tied in to the mandate of its abilities. Without a consciousness to direct it, nothing could actually be created or destroyed. It's as if the power of Preservation understands that its tendency to reinforce stability is not enough. If nothing changed, nothing would ever come to exist.

 

Vin isn't providing the direction when she burns metals. The metals, as Brandon says, shape the power and tell it what it do.

 

This is a long-winded way of saying I agree with your last point. "Filters", "nozzles", "focuses", they are all doing the same thing - taking raw Investiture and giving it direction. But one's will can make Investiture do anything you want (subject to the Shard's Intent's limits), and a focus is limited to doing a specific function, and seems to arise naturally on a per-planet basis.

 

So I guess my question is, why should one stop using the word focus? Why is it redundant?

 

Take the question, "what is Roshar's focus?". Essentially, it asks, what does one do to channel Roshar's power when one is not a Shard? How does one create a fabrial? What about fabrials shapes Stormlight? That, to me, seems a very important question.

 

(As something of a tangent, you say 'a “focus” is simply the Cognitive Realm means of accessing power on a given planet to achieve a desired Physical Realm magical effect'. I believe we've spoken of this before, but certainly there exist metals which have no Physical effect: atium and gold, to name two, which involve allowing you to see into the Spiritual briefly. Nothing Physical there.)

[Oversleep]

Stop theorising about what I don't like, that's basically what you said, Confused.
You didn't give a single argument why they would be unimportant, just stated the obvious facts that they are the means to access Investiture and shape the effect. You tried to argue that a higher level beings can bypass the focus by accessing Investiture directly and shape it by their will (like Shards do), but we know that there are about 11 Shards who can do that (four Shards Splintered by Odium, Sazed holds two). So focus is important to Cosmere at whole, since overwhelming majority of magic users need them (I'd say about 99.999% of them).

As Moogle said, figuring out how focuses work allowed to create fabrials, probably. Knowledge what is the focus in magic is helpful in analyzing it.
Also, Shards on Scadrial are blind to the Scadrial's focus. That seems important.

[Yata he/him]

But we know that the "focus" is something that affects the Shards itself (for example R&P have Metal-Blindness) therefore it's not something "for Mortal only". There is something that deeply link Investiture and Focus, also without "magic users"

 

The Magic systems at all aren't the power of the Shard, The Shard may use as he want (with the Intent limitation of course), but in any Shardworld "something" (probably in the Spiritual Realm) spread the Magic in the Shardworld at all. And the magic System are "naturally built" from Shard's Investiture and Shardworld's Focus.

 

You may call it "Focus" or "Investiture's Gateway" or "Access" but is pretty a Semanthical problem.

 

I will avoid to call it "nozzles" because this word is useful for the External Magic System only (ex: Allomancy, AonDor) where you are linked to an unlimited Source and the focus works like both "Access/limitator".

Edited January 31, 2016 by Yata

[Master_Moridin he/him]

Just to have it here for reference, here's a WoB on what a focus is.
 

Question
What is the definition of a focus (in The Way of Kings' Ars Arcanum)?

Brandon Sanderson
Foci, though linked to the magic system, are more like artifacts of the philosophy surrounding the magic system. A focus is a philosophical concept, rather than a hardfast rule related to the magic system. A man-made, artificial way of explaining the magic system. Like the periodic table.
(source)

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Just to have it here for reference, here's a WoB on what a focus is.

 

 

As a point of clarification those aren't the foci this discussion is about. The concept of a "body focus" in Vorinism, which is what that WoB is referring to, are largely cultural in nature.  Foci like the metals however are quite real parts of the magic.

[Master_Moridin he/him]

As a point of clarification those aren't the foci this discussion is about. The concept of a "body focus" in Vorinism, which is what that WoB is referring to, are largely cultural in nature.  Foci like the metals however are quite real parts of the magic.

 

Ahh, I couldn't remember the Ars Arcanum from WoK so I assumed it had been another Cosmere term drop.

 

welp

[Confused]

Thank you, for your responses! Much appreciated! You ask why should I care what word we use?

 

Answer: I don’t. My problem is with the underlying concept – there is no Forum consensus on the meaning of a “focus,” let alone a coherent theory that adds predictive value to our understanding of the Cosmere. That’s why I call this theory a “myth.”

 

Let me address this with my usual ponderous prose. (Ah, to be as light as @FeatherWriter. What clear and simple exposition! I’m stuck trying to express myself with heavy sludge…)

 

Why We Theorize

 

We theorize because we, the 17^th Shard community, struggle together to understand the “Easter eggs” and other story elements that MISTER Sanderson has not yet fully developed. We seek to comprehend the Cosmere better. And, we have nothing better to do while waiting for MISTER Sanderson to finish more books…

 

I know I’ve made many changes to my theories based on suggestions or comments folks have made here. If I try to shape your views, IMO it’s toward a common goal. Truth-finding is a collective experience.

 

Any theory must meet two criteria: it must comport with known “facts,” and it must be internally consistent, that is, make sense on its own terms. If a theory passes those thresholds, it may be correct. But then a third criteria arises: does the theory predict future events; does it explain something meaningful that can’t be explained better in some other way?

 

I believe the “theory of foci” fails under this third criteria (and maybe the second too, but I’ll pass). The examples you all cite show us a possible PATTERN, but that pattern doesn’t help us predict anything. Compare the “theory of mandates/intents,” which does predict the ways in which Shards can exercise their power. {Thank you, @Chaos.) As I show below, the theory of foci confuses rather than illuminates.

 

“Focus” Definitions

 

I haven’t seen a Forum consensus definition of the word “focus.” Just look at the ongoing “Roshar’s Focus” thread for an example of the confusion. @Oversleep says here on that thread that “Magic is interaction between focus and Intent - focus is the means by which you access the Investiture and Intent is how you do it.” I totally disagree with this statement, but that’s not for present discussion. The focus definition is: “the means by which you access the Investiture.”

 

Compare @Moogle’s definition: “Focuses take the place of a mind,” meaning they help a magician “shape” the flow of power into the Physical Realm without the magician’s “understanding” or “participation in the process.” In an earlier post, Moogle defined a focus as “Something that holds Investiture on the planet. Blinds any Shard (probably) Invested in the planet.”

 

@Yata: “in any Shardworld ‘something’ (probably in the Spiritual Realm) spread the Magic in the Shardworld...And the magic System are ‘naturally buil[t]’ f[ro]m Shard's Investiture and Shardworld's Focus.” I understand Yata to mean that a “focus” is the Spiritual Realm aspect of a Shardworld responsible for the distribution of magic on that Shardworld. The combination of a Shard’s investiture with that “focus” creates the Shardworld’s magic system. [Yata, please correct me if I’m misstating your meaning.]

 

In 2013, @Senor Feesh offered this definition (bold and italics in original): “something that enables a magic system, without necessarily being magical itself.” He gives the examples of Selish forms/symbols, Scadrian metallic molecular structures, and word-based commands on Nalthis.

 

These definitions address related but not identical phenomena. If we can’t even agree on what a “focus” is, how can we effectively theorize about it, let alone make predictions based on any such theory? What good does such a theory do; how does it contribute to our Cosmere understanding? That’s my objection to the “theory of foci” – our inability to agree on the underlying concept, not the word itself.

 

An Alternate Explanation

 

IMO basic Cosmere-ology explains this stuff without creating new concepts like “focus.” WoB tells us that Shardworld magic systems grow out of the interactions between a Shard’s mandate (intent) and the host planet. Such magic systems are unique to the Shardworld. Each of the three Realms in which that Shardworld exists is likewise unique.

 

Unique magic systems have unique oddities, like the “Metallic Arts” on Scadrial where Shards are metal-blind or form-based commands on Sel. Every Shardworld/magic system has some oddity or another.

 

We can agree on that. But I see no usable pattern to that uniqueness, no common thread of predictability. Little about Scadrial predicts how magic works on Roshar. Little on Nalthis predicts what will happen on Sel.

 

WITH ONE BIG EXCEPTION. IMO throughout the Cosmere magic always starts in the Cognitive Realm – in the mind – with a cognitive command of some sort, directing the “true investiture” of the Spiritual Realm to accomplish some end. How the magician issues that command differs from Shardworld to Shardworld and the effects of that command differ from Shardworld to Shardworld. But magic IMO proceeds in that sequence throughout the Cosmere.

 

Let’s look at some examples to illustrate my point that “focuses” have nothing to do with this.

 

Scadrial

 

Moogle defines “focus” as an intrinsic property of investiture, something that can “tak[e] raw Investiture and giv[e] it direction” with minimal input from the magician. Focus “shapes” or “filters” the power flow, like a “nozzle” on a garden hose. That shaping in his opinion largely replaces the need for the magician’s conscious involvement.

 

I believe he undervalues Vin’s conscious involvement. Moogle notes that Vin commands Preservation’s power by burning whatever metal she needs. He says “Vin's only participation in the process was opening the floodgates (and mentally selecting a blue line).”

 

Vin chose to open the floodgates by burning iron. She didn’t have to open the floodgates at that moment. She didn’t have to use iron versus another metal. Her mind made the decision to draw down the power when and how she did, and her mind used the power with such skill.

 

Metal may have been the pathway for that power, but power’s conscious use clearly requires a consciousness. In what way did Scadrial’s “focus” on metals affect Vin’s ability to use the magic, other than in providing her a pathway to it?

 

If Oversleep’s definition is correct – focus is “the means by which you access the Investiture” – then Vin’s means of burning metals should have some analog on some other Shardworld. Other than Lift, whose investiture consumption method (though not material) is identical to Vin’s, there isn’t any non-Scadrian analog. Vin burning metals only predicts that other Scadrian investiture might be accessed through metals, which is true.

 

Roshar

 

I’ve seen posters claim that Roshar’s focus is the Nahel bond, the spren, Stormlight or gemstones. Moogle asks, “what does one do to channel Roshar's power when one is not a Shard?”

 

Answer: Surgebinders DON’T “channel Roshar’s power.” They are ATTACHED to Roshar’s power through the Nahel bond. When Kaladin wants to fly, Syl senses his command (as when she shifts Shard-shapes) because their minds are connected. Syl as cognitive investiture issues the command to the Spiritual Realm on Kaladin’s behalf to change the direction of the Gravity Surge (for example).

 

The Radiant spren are not pathways to power, a means to exercise power. They ARE power, the Cognitive Realm aspect of it. Posters on the “Roshar Focus” thread search in vain for a “focus” there because none exists. On Roshar a splinter simply exercises its own power on behalf of a KR.

 

“Rosharan Fabrials”: I can only address the spren-based fabrials. IMO fabrial spren hold an equivalent amount of power to Radiant spren. They too are sapient. But they are bound within the gemstone. IMO they rely on the fabrial-user’s mind for direction of their power, almost like a temporary bond between them. (Such an incomplete bond might be what causes soulcasters to become stone-like.) Their “imprisonment” within specific colored gemstones may have to do with the Stormlight radiation bandwidth allowed to reach the spren.

 

Other than in fabrials (and IMO greatshells), gemstones act as Stormlight batteries: better cut holds more Stormlight. Surgebinders in a Highstorm can access Stormlight directly (if they could survive it, as Kaladin did). Nothing about the gemstones suggests “focus.”

 

Nalthis

 

The Nahel bond and the attachment of Divine Breath to a Returned is IMO the exact same mechanism: a merger of a mortal’s Spirit Web with a sapient amount of investiture. (There are many differences too, but in this they are alike.) When the Returned is ready to self-sacrifice, he/she exercises his/her power with a cognitive command. Lightsong chooses to self-sacrifice when he does for the specific purpose of giving voice to the God King.

 

KR and Returned BECOME the cognitive aspect of power through their bond. They don’t need an intermediary like metal to draw it down.

 

Breaths attach to mortal Nalthis magicians because of the “sticky” quality of Endowment’s investiture. But the Breaths don’t bond with these magicians, as Divine Breaths bond with the Returned. When mortal Nalthians endow objects with life, they accompany their mental command imagery with a catalytic color conversion. The reliance on color at lower investiture levels (see below) resembles Scadrians’ reliance on metal. (Skaa’s “L-String Theory” explains this similarity.)

 

Are there two different “foci” on Nalthis because the Returned and mortal Nalthians “access” and use Endowment’s power in different ways? That would counter every “focus” theory I’ve seen.

 

Sel

 

I’ve presented my theory of Selish magic in that thread. @Landis963 and I have an interesting debate on “focus” issues.

 

“Will”

 

Moogle and MISTER Sanderson highlight the role of “will.” I assume by “will” they mean that a magician who controls larger amounts of power has a greater “mind” to control that power. Moogle relies on the WoB in the OP to conclude that “one’s will can make Investiture do anything you want.”

 

Based on the assumed definition of “will” above, I agree with Moogle’s statement. Under Moogle’s “nozzle” theory of investiture-shaping, “nozzles” are only necessary when the magician has a weak mind, in the investiture sense. Power is proportionate to the mind that wields it. Minds throttle the flow of raw power to comprehensible levels.

 

A stronger mind, in an investiture sense, can wield the power more directly, without nozzles. That’s the real meaning of MISTER Sanderson’s statement that “Roshar Surgebinding is a special case, as the magical symbiosis there is stronger than it is on other worlds, as much of the magic involves bits of power who have become sapient.”

 

Sazed Quotation: “Consciousness” and “Mandates”

 

Thank you, Moogle, for quoting that epigraph in full!!! For any interested in understanding the nature of Shards, that is THE “MUST-READ” STATEMENT in the Cosmere!!! It comes from the mouth of a Shard (two in fact). Sazed’s statement is the source of two important concepts:

 

• “The power needed a consciousness to direct it.” That’s why power chose the Shards at the Shattering. This statement is also the foundation for my many “forced splintering” theories.
• Power has only a “vague will of its own, tied in to the mandate of its abilities.” This statement is why I use the word “mandate” for what many of you call a Shard’s “intent.”

 

“Physical Realm Magical Effects”

 

Good catch, Moogle! You are correct that magical effects can be targeted at other Realms; though I believe they have effects in all Realms whichever one is targeted.

 

I also think that temporal effects from atium and (maybe) gold are more Cognitive Realm-based than Spiritual Realm-based. Special Relativity shows that time is relative to the observer. That must be a Cognitive Realm thing. Don’t you think the Spiritual Realm – a place of undifferentiated “raw” investiture – would be a bit more “eternal”? But I can see it the other way too...

 

Conclusion

 

Thanks again, all, for encouraging my long slog. Hopefully the headings helped. This gave me the opportunity to put some thoughts in order. Regards all!

Edited January 31, 2016 by Confused

[Landis963 he/him]

In many cases, I would actually agree with that dissertation. On many Shardworlds, with one or zero Invested Shards in residence, there's no reason to search for a focus because there's only one system. In that way, a focus becomes a study in drawing erroneous connections. However, on, say, Scadrial, there were two Shards, and 3 systems, and all of them used metal. On Roshar there were 2 Shards and an interloper, and we know of 3 systems (Surgebinding, Voidbinding, and Artifabrication) and all of them involve gemstones.

So focus identification is a very situational tool, but hardly useless.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Landis963

[Master_Moridin he/him]

Scadrial

 

Moogle defines “focus” as an intrinsic property of investiture, something that can “tak[e] raw Investiture and giv[e] it direction” with minimal input from the magician. Focus “shapes” or “filters” the power flow, like a “nozzle” on a garden hose. That shaping in his opinion largely replaces the need for the magician’s conscious involvement.

 

I believe he undervalues Vin’s conscious involvement. Moogle notes that Vin commands Preservation’s power by burning whatever metal she needs. He says “Vin's only participation in the process was opening the floodgates (and mentally selecting a blue line).”

 

Vin chose to open the floodgates by burning iron. She didn’t have to open the floodgates at that moment. She didn’t have to use iron versus another metal. Her mind made the decision to draw down the power when and how she did, and her mind used the power with such skill.

 

Metal may have been the pathway for that power, but power’s conscious use clearly requires a consciousness. In what way did Scadrial’s “focus” on metals affect Vin’s ability to use the magic, other than in providing her a pathway to it?

 

If Oversleep’s definition is correct – focus is “the means by which you access the Investiture” – then Vin’s means of burning metals should have some analog on some other Shardworld. Other than Lift, whose investiture consumption method (though not material) is identical to Vin’s, there isn’t any non-Scadrian analog. Vin burning metals only predicts that other Scadrian investiture might be accessed through metals, which is true.

 

This ignores though the effect the metal Vin burns is having on the Investiture she draws in.

 

She isn't just choosing to burn a metal for access to power, the metal itself changes the power as it flows through/in/out of it.

 

She chooses to burn iron, but the power she gets as a result is completely outside of her conscious decision and is a result of the interaction between the Investiture and iron.

 

I also think that temporal effects from atium and (maybe) gold are more Cognitive Realm-based than Spiritual Realm-based. Special Relativity shows that time is relative to the observer. That must be a Cognitive Realm thing. Don’t you think the Spiritual Realm – a place of undifferentiated “raw” investiture – would be a bit more “eternal”? But I can see it the other way too...

 

We have a WoB that says Atium lets one peer into the Spiritual Realm

 

Quote

Argent

Not too long ago you told us atium works in the Cognitive - to quote you in reference to how stronger atium burns, "However, there's a certain breaking point where you kind of crack the whole system, peer straight into the cognitive realm, and kind of have a "It's full of stars" moment."

Are the two replies still compatible?

Brandon Sanderson

I meant Spiritual there. Sorry. I deal with the cognitive so much in the books, and Spiritual so infrequently, I often have a Silver/tin moment when my fingers just type the thing I'm used to typing.

[Yata he/him]

On 31/1/2016 at 5:00 AM, Confused said:

@Yata: “in any Shardworld ‘something’ (probably in the Spiritual Realm) spread the Magic in the Shardworld...And the magic System are ‘naturally buil[t]’ f[ro]m Shard's Investiture and Shardworld's Focus.” I understand Yata to mean that a “focus” is the Spiritual Realm aspect of a Shardworld responsible for the distribution of magic on that Shardworld. The combination of a Shard’s investiture with that “focus” creates the Shardworld’s magic system. [Yata, please correct me if I’m misstating your meaning.]

You caught my point pretty well and reading your post I understood your point better (also if I don't agree with it).

 

But there is something I can't undertand:

You discard the Focus-Concept because you find it useless as predictive tools. But to removing it, you add to the Standard model of the Magic Systems (I don't know, have we a better term for the deep mechanics of Magic Systems  as a whole ?) exceptions to explain some phenomenoms.

You call them oddities (for example the Metal-Blindness of R&P) but isn't it a counterintuitive replacement to a more linear explaination ?

Edited June 26, 2016 by Yata

[Oversleep]

I strongly disagree with this whole argument that discussion about the focuses adds nothing because we cannot reach any conclusion.
Einstein disliked quantum, he perceived it as "spooky action at a distance". Yet quantum computers will be capable of feats magnitudes more awesome than supercomputers of today.
Just because we don't know everything or we discuss about it doesn't mean it's wrong or unimportant.

We can agree on that. But I see no usable pattern to that uniqueness, no common thread of predictability. Little about Scadrial predicts how magic works on Roshar. Little on Nalthis predicts what will happen on Sel.

Except Scadrial's metal's composition is very similar to Sel's forms. There is both a WoB about it and Ars Arcanum of Alloy Of Law. We're still early in the Cosmere books, we're the first scholars of Investiture. In five years we will know more and at the end it will all make sense. Right now we know of nine Shards out of sixteen and we do not know a whole lot (about some we only know that they exist or existed). We know of four major Shardworlds out of ten. Of course we cannot categorize and analyse everything properly at this time, but what's the point in stopping us from trying?

As for your argument that only mind matters, there is a WoB out there that Vin burning mists could do many different things and not only effects of burning metals. But without the mists, the metals are what cause the specific effect. It's not like you burn metals to get Investiture and later your mind throws spells around; no, burning specific metal gives you specific effect. Mind is of no consequence here. Tineye burning tin will always have all of his senses augmented, he cannot will any of them down. Vin poked at this new reserve inside, threw it at Kelsier and the result was Rioting.

Investiture is electricity, focus is the machine and magic user is person who presses button "ON".
I bet you could take a fresh Elantrian who knows nothing about AonDor, show him what to draw and he will and it will have the exactly same effect as the Elantrian who knows what is he trying to achieve by drawing these Aons.
One of them was drawing glowing shapes in the air and stuff happened.
The second one was letting Dor flow in the world by set of carefully chosen shapes who act as proper wavelength for power to achieve desired effect.
Mind behind those actions was different, yet what mattered was the focus.

[Ari he/him]

Hahaha we know tons now, it's just that we know enough to understand exactly how ignorant we are of some key details.

 

Focuses are something we got from Brandon talking about how Aons and Metals work. They are definitely a part of the magic system. You can't abstract them out because there are exceptions for Vessels and future-Vessels using powers without foci. The rules for Vessels are different.

[Confused]

@Oversleep, I think we’re close to agreement. You say:

 

“Investiture is electricity, focus is the machine and magic user is person who presses button ‘ON.’”

 

I say:

 

“Spiritual Realm investiture is electricity, Cognitive Realm investiture directs the “machine” (which may exist in and/or target any Realm), and the magician is the Physical Realm person whose Mind turned on the machine.”

 

Why do I say “Cognitive Realm investiture” when you say “focus”?

 

Focus isn’t always the “machine” as you acknowledge with Vin and Surgebinders; but Cognitive Realm investiture – a Shard’s or magician’s Mind –is always present. That’s why in the OP I describe “focus” as the “Cognitive Realm means of accessing power on a given planet to achieve a desired…magical effect.”

 

If you want to agree with that definition, which is broad enough to encompass Vin, Surgebinders and the Returned, then our debate is done. Otherwise, your definition would exclude Vin in full mist-suck mode, as well as Surgebinders and the Returned.

 

Most mortal magician’s cognitive capabilities can’t control the flow of power. Their cognitive means of access requires a “nozzle.” Skaa’s “L-String Theory” predicts such “nozzles” are different vibration frequencies, “resonance” points, whether expressed in the molecular structure of metals, the color of gemstones, Edgli’s colors, or specific Selish forms.

 

With sufficient investiture the magician’s mind no longer needs the crutch of a nozzle. It can shape and control the power on its own. That is what both Surgebinders and Returned do. They are each attached to a sapient amount of cognitive investiture that allows them to exercise magic directly. That’s where the “nozzle” theory of focus breaks down, at higher investiture levels.

 

Just because the vibration frequencies of specific metals mandate the type of power available to Vin doesn’t mean she didn’t start the process with a command. She did press the “On” button, as you put it. She’s not responsible for how magic works, or even knowing how it works. She’s only cognitively responsible for using it.

 

When you run, you fall forward onto one foot while pushing off the other. You don’t have to know how your muscles electrically fire or how your body processes lactose. You tell your body to run in a given direction, and it does. Vin selects the type of power she wants, chooses to burn the requisite metal when she wants, and chooses to release the power how she wants. That all sounds pretty cognitive to me.

 

@Master_Moridin, I read your last quoted WoB as supporting my time comments. @Argent asked what happens after “a certain breaking point where you kind of crack the whole system, peer straight into the cognitive realm, and kind of have a ‘It's full of stars’ moment." That’s what MISTER Sanderson corrects to say he meant the “Spiritual Realm.” Up until that point, the WoB suggests that atium’s temporal changes do occur in the Cognitive Realm.

 

@Yata, fair point. I describe these things as “oddities” because each is different from the others. They are not odd in the same way. If Oversleep accepts my “focus” definition above, then I’ll back off this point.

[Master_Moridin he/him]

 

@Master_Moridin, I read your last quoted WoB as supporting my time comments. @Argent asked what happens after “a certain breaking point where you kind of crack the whole system, peer straight into the cognitive realm, and kind of have a ‘It's full of stars’ moment." That’s what MISTER Sanderson corrects to say he meant the “Spiritual Realm.” Up until that point, the WoB suggests that atium’s temporal changes do occur in the Cognitive Realm.

 

That entire WoB was him correcting something he had previously said in a previous WoB.

 

 

Wigginns:

Hey Brandon. First of all I'm incredibly impressed and thankful for the dedication you've put into this thread, answering pretty much every question for over 4 months. Second, thank you for what you do. I've been reading your books for 7 or so years now and I've loved every novel and short story I can get my hands on.

 

I've been doing a reread (listen) of Mistborn on my way to work the past month or so. What would a hemolurgic spike granting atium do for an allomancer already able to burn atium? Does it function similarly to bronze, granting enhanced atium-ing? Along this line of thought, would enhancing electrum burning via spike be of any advantage?

 

Brandon

A spike of something you have would enhance your ability, giving your more strength. With Atium, more strength makes for a minimal edge--the length you can push out the atium shadows. However, there's a certain breaking point where you kind of crack the whole system, peer straight into the cognitive realm, and kind of have a "It's full of stars" moment.

 

Electrum could reach this same moment, potentially, though there's more interference to fight through. Extra strength in electrum isn't going to be terribly useful up to that point.

 

The only reference to cognitive in that is in reference to the "It's full of stars" moment

 

Atium uses the spiritual, and enough atium strength lets you peer straight into the Spiritual Realm

 

Extra context:

 

 

 

Q:

Would the time reversing properties of balefire remove the ability to see the future?

A:

Boy, this one is a tough call. Mixing cosmologies is tough. If we're IN Randland, then atium would work by reading the pattern--but in the Cosmere, it looks into the spiritual realm--where all times, locations, and possibilities conflate. Either way, I'd say Balefire could counteract Atium--but it would be tricky to use correctly, as you'd basically have to balefire some object that the atium burner was factoring into their plans very soon, tripping them up and catching them unable to adjust to the new futures quickly enough.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Master_Moridin

[Pechvarry]

Is "focus" anything more than a fan term? I'm certain I've read Brandon use the term before, but i don't recall it used with, like, a capital F. Not like how he tends to use words like Connection and Investiture.

[Ari he/him]

Is "focus" anything more than a fan term? I'm certain I've read Brandon use the term before, but i don't recall it used with, like, a capital F. Not like how he tends to use words like Connection and Investiture.

 

Focus may or may not be a term Brandon initiated, (I think it is his, but can't recall for sure- I know he's used other words for it before I started seeing focus thrown around) but the thing it describes was something Brandon told us about.

[Shardbearer he/him]

So I've been through ever mention of the word "focus" on theoryland. Brandon uses the word only twice in a way similar to what we've been using. Both times, once in the annotation for one of the Mistborn books, he calls the metals a focus for the Metallic Arts. I can't provide quotes because I'm at work and copy and paste doesn't work here.

 

So it seems to me that focus is a real concept in the Cosmere, and rather then trying to move away from the term we should work to better understand it and reach a better consensus for what the term means. Since Brandon called the metal a focus for the magics on Scadrial, and the quote provided in the OP seem to deal with using metals as a "nozzle" to shape Investiture into an effect, I am inclined to think that Moogle's definition of foci is pretty close to the mark.