The Thrill

[King's Twit he/him]

This post has minor Warbreaker spoilers.

 

So, this has probably been brought up before, but the Thrill seems very similar to what Nightblood does to those who wield him or are near him. Both give a lust for violence and killing, and both also seem to cause extreme nausea in those who are "pure" or above their temptation. Also, Dalinar got sick from the Thrill in a similar way to how Vivenna did when she was first exposed Nightblood, though her sickness was much more severe.

 

I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the implications of this, if I am correct about them being similar effects. It could mean that the Thrill is being intentionally caused by something, maybe Odium, but we don't really know enough about how the Thrill or Nightblood's magic work to say this conclusively.

[KnightGradient]

Roshar and Nalthis have a lot of similarities. Brandon himself referred to Nightblood as a robot spren, and Nightblood does a lot of the same things Shardblades do. I don't know if Brandon would lump Nightblood together with so many plot points, but it is possible that it has some similarities to the Thrill. Nice job noticing that.

[Moogle]

We know the Thrill is caused by Nergaoul, an Unmade, from the Taravangian Interlude:
 
“I agree,” she said. “It gives us a further reference point. The Thrill is at least as strong here as it is in Alethkar. Maybe stronger. I will speak to our scholars. Perhaps this will help pinpoint Nergaoul.”
 
This is further supported by WoBs:
 

Q. I find the Shin fascinating. Given their reputation for docility and Szeth's internal monologues, am I right in thinking that the Shin do not feel The Thrill?
If so, is this due to the protection of Cultivation or sheer distance from Nergaoul? And finally, is an awareness or fear of the Thrill the reason for the Shin societal disdain for soldiers or is it primarily to discourage use of the honour blades?

A. Distance is the big factor here, though there are cultural reasons for things as well. In addition, being very close to something tied to Honor reduces the effects of things like the Thrill. As for the Shin culture, you'll find a great deal in the next three books, so I'd rather not say much now.
(source)

 

Q: In Chapter 19 of The Way of Kings, when Dalinar has a vision of fighting Voidbringers (maybe something else?) as a farmer, he says that he felt the Thrill in the vision. Does this mean that Nergaoul was active there, at the time that vision was "recorded" or was it Dalinar's viewing of the vision that was affected by the Thrill? Would the actual person whose perspective he was seeing have felt the Thrill if he had fought?
A: This is a great question, and one I've never been asked before. The answer is going to be a little vague.
First, Dalinar could have felt the Thrill from Nergaoul, and imported it into the vision.
Second, Nergaoul could have been active then, and the farmer could have felt it when he fought.
So both theories are valid. Which is it? I am going to hang back from answering this for now, as I am digging more into the Unmade in a future book.
(source)

[+Wax he/him]

I think it's interesting that the thrill affects some and not others. In the fight between Adolin and Eshonai, Adolin is not affected but Eshonai is clearly taken over. Someone else can maybe provide the direct quote from WoR.

Edited January 20, 2016 by axcellence

[natc]

Well, Eshonai quite literally had a voidspren in her soul, for one. Probably does funny things with Unmade influence. Actually can we even say for sure that was what it was? It could just be the stormform itself. It seems to be physically superior to warform and causes very violent tendencies. I also don't recall prior descriptions of parshendi experiencing the Thrill.

And surgebinders in general don't seem to experience it, as with Dalinar. Which raises questions here with Adolin and throws more fuel in the blade revival fire I suppose, but the point is lack of Thrill is not unprecedented.

Edited January 20, 2016 by natc

[Pathfinder]

I think it's interesting that the thrill affects some and not others. In the fight between Adolin and Eshonai, Adolin is not affected but Eshonai is clearly taken over. Someone else can maybe provide the direct quote from WoR.

 

 

Well, Eshonai quite literally had a voidspren in her soul, for one. Probably does funny things with Unmade influence. Actually can we even say for sure that was what it was? It could just be the stormform itself. It seems to be physically superior to warform and causes very violent tendencies. I also don't recall prior descriptions of parshendi experiencing the Thrill.

And surgebinders in general don't seem to experience it, as with Dalinar. Which raises questions here with Adolin and throws more fuel in the blade revival fire I suppose, but the point is lack of Thrill is not unprecedented.

You both make excellent points and I am torn. Which made me start to write why I agree with each of you, and why i disagree with each of you, but I pulled out my kindle and went to the spot and I am leaning more towards axellence. On page 1002 of my kindle edition Adolin is thinking "Where was the Thrill that usually propelled him through this kind of butchery? He needed it. Instead he felt only nausea. Standing amid the field of the newly dead - the acrid smoke of the burned-out eyes curling up through the rain - he trembled and dropped his blade in disgust. It vanished to mist". The last time we saw someone lose the Thrill and felt nauseous from it was Dalinar, and we was a proto Radiant. The big thing for me is the nausea so strong that he trembled. The impression that I got is that the Thrill fills you with bloodlust, but otherwise if you were a soldier without it and had to kill, you could kill and be fine. Adolin has been killing for awhile, so seeing death is not a new thing to him while with Cien (I think thats the new guys name in Kaladin's group when Kal was a spearman) he puked in his first battle from seeing so much death. So in my opinion, if the Thrill was just absent, Adolin wouldn't have the drive, but he also wouldn't have felt nauseous.

 

Secondly, when the Thrill is mentioned in Eshonai, it isn't from her POV at first. It is from Adolin's. Page 1011 Kindle edition "She was difficult to maneuver. he had only met this Eshonai twice, but he felt he knew her through the way she fought. He sensed her eagerness for blood. her eagerness to kill. The Thrill. He did not feel it himself. he sensed it in her."  "Adolin pressed her with a burst of swordplay then he flagged, presenting her with an opening. She took it immediately, swinging for his helm, which leaked from an earlier blow. Yes, she was fully caught up in the Thrill. That lent her energy and strength, but it drove her to recklessness. To ignore her surroundings". 

 

Now in the second quote again it could be argued that it was due to her Stormform, but I feel Brandon wouldn't make a point to name the Thrill twice within pages of each other, and have from Adolin's perspective him confirm multiple times that what Eshonai is feeling is the Thrill. 

Edited January 20, 2016 by Pathfinder

[Yata he/him]

You may be a soldier for your whole life.

But if you had always an outsider Assassin force (The Thrill) that push you.

When you fight with clear mind, you may find nauseated by thing, you never notice while you were pushed by the thrill

[Pathfinder]

You may be a soldier for your whole life.

But if you had always an outsider Assassin force (The Thrill) that push you.

When you fight with clear mind, you may find nauseated by thing, you never notice while you were pushed by the thrill

Kaladin's soldiers killed a whole bunch of people as ordered by him when he was a spearman for Amaram but the description of how they acted was never the Thrill and the more trained of them were not nauseous. There are other times Adolin fights parshendi without the Thrill and does not feel nauseous. So why at that time, when not feeling the Thrill does he feel nauseous if it is just him?

[The Invested Beard]

Could it be that at some points Nergaoul is consciously targeting powerful and influential people as a way of corrupting them and further influencing the outcome of events in their favor, which seems to be sowing hatred? The Thrill to me has always seemed like a spiritual drug for lack of a better term. Some people are more susceptible to addiction than others and when it's taken away you get withdrawals.

[Pathfinder]

Could it be that at some points Nergaoul is consciously targeting powerful and influential people as a way of corrupting them and further influencing the outcome of events in their favor, which seems to be sowing hatred? The Thrill to me has always seemed like a spiritual drug for lack of a better term. Some people are more susceptible to addiction than others and when it's taken away you get withdrawals.

But if the nausea is the result of withdrawal, then why didn't Dalinar get nauseous from not going on plateau runs for awhile? Why become nauseous only when he starts fighting again? Withdrawal for me is when you go for an extended period of time without the drug. There were varying lengths of time between him going to fights and having the thrill yet there was one instance in particular he felt nauseous. Same thing with Adolin. 

Edited January 20, 2016 by Pathfinder

[The Invested Beard]

Like I said it's not a perfect metaphor. Maybe it's the counter acting of the Radiant/Honor influence that creates the nausea. There are certain smoking cessation drugs that do the same thing. When you smoke a cigarette it makes you nauseous. So that is very specific and situational and could make more sense than withdrawal.

[Pathfinder]

Like I said it's not a perfect metaphor. Maybe it's the counter acting of the Radiant/Honor influence that creates the nausea. There are certain smoking cessation drugs that do the same thing. When you smoke a cigarette it makes you nauseous. So that is very specific and situational and could make more sense than withdrawal.

Right, so that's why I was saying I am leaning towards those who have theorized that Adolin is a proto-radiant. Before I was on the fence, but upon re-reading that section, I feel it shows that Adolin went through what Dalinar did. That as Dalinar was becoming a radiant, the Thrill ended up having the opposite effect than usual. Instead of inspiring bloodlust and passion, it inspired nausea and disgust. So by extension Adolin is on his way to becoming a radiant. Now whether or not what happened with Sadeas killed that development I have no idea, but I feel I am in agreement with the theory Adolin the proto-radiant. 

[Master_Moridin he/him]

Right, so that's why I was saying I am leaning towards those who have theorized that Adolin is a proto-radiant. Before I was on the fence, but upon re-reading that section, I feel it shows that Adolin went through what Dalinar did. That as Dalinar was becoming a radiant, the Thrill ended up having the opposite effect than usual. Instead of inspiring bloodlust and passion, it inspired nausea and disgust. So by extension Adolin is on his way to becoming a radiant. Now whether or not what happened with Sadeas killed that development I have no idea, but I feel I am in agreement with the theory Adolin the proto-radiant.

 

Well according to WoB, there are several Knights Radiant orders that would have been okay with the Sadeas thing

 

For reference:

 

Jerich ()

Are there radiant orders that would take someone like Adolin even after what he does at the end of Words of Radiant?

Brandon Sanderson ()

Brandon: I am not going to say whether or not Adolin will become a Knights Radiant, but yes, there are several orders that would be very happy with what he did.

Me: Like the Skybreakers or Dustbringers?

Brandon: The Skybreakers would probably not want him because he broke a law, but there are other orders that would think he completely did the right thing and be very happy with him.

Trickonometry (who was waiting in line behind me): Like the Dustbringers?

Brandon: (Didn't say anything but looked up at him, smiled and half nodded)

Footnote

This question refers to Adolin's slaying of Sadeas.

(source)

[Stormgate he/him]

Everyone wants Adolin to be an Edgedancer. Why not a Dustbringer? I get that his sword belonged to an Edgedancer, but...

[Pathfinder]

Everyone wants Adolin to be an Edgedancer. Why not a Dustbringer? I get that his sword belonged to an Edgedancer, but...

Maxel made the point that based on a WoB we have, that we have not seen the POV of a dusbringer yet. Since we have already gotten a POV of Adolin, that would logically lead he would not be one. Now there could be word games, like since Adolin isn't a dustbringer yet then what Brandon said could still apply and Adolin become one, but that is probably a stretch. 

Edited January 20, 2016 by Pathfinder

[Yata he/him]

Maybe be bond to a Dead Shardblade is enough to feel the nausea now that the Thrill (and Odium's Influence) left the Human.
After all also if the Spren is "death", everyone with a Shardblade is bond to Honor's power.

[Pathfinder]

Maybe be bond to a Dead Shardblade is enough to feel the nausea now that the Thrill (and Odium's Influence) left the Human.

After all also if the Spren is "death", everyone with a Shardblade is bond to Honor's power.

Then why haven't other shardbearer's felt nausea? Nergouel has moved around, so if all it takes to get nauseous is to have a dead shardblade when not feeling the Thrill, then it would have happened to a lot more than three people (Dalinar, Adolin, and Renarin). 

[maxal she/her]

 

Kaladin's soldiers killed a whole bunch of people as ordered by him when he was a spearman for Amaram but the description of how they acted was never the Thrill and the more trained of them were not nauseous. There are other times Adolin fights parshendi without the Thrill and does not feel nauseous. So why at that time, when not feeling the Thrill does he feel nauseous if it is just him?

 

Actually, the Plateau fight was the first time Adolin fought a battle without the Thrill. He fought duels without it, to keep his head clear, but never warfare.

 

 

Maxel made the point that based on a WoB we have, that we have not seen the POV of a dusbringer yet. Since we have already gotten a POV of Adolin, that would logically lead he would not be one. Now there could be word games, like since Adolin isn't a dustbringer yet then what Brandon said could still apply and Adolin become one, but that is probably a stretch. 

 

It is a serious stretch, but currently I am in a terrible mood concerning Adolin. I do not even think he'll do much in the story anymore, much less become a Radiant.

 

 

Then why haven't other shardbearer's felt nausea? Nergouel has moved around, so if all it takes to get nauseous is to have a dead shardblade when not feeling the Thrill, then it would have happened to a lot more than three people (Dalinar, Adolin, and Renarin). 

 

I think nobody else is incapacitated because only Adolin couldn't feel the Thrill. I also think he reacts more strongly than Dalinar partly because he is half-Alethi and partly because he does not have the heart of a soldier. In other words, without the Thrill, Adolin can't stomach the killing unlike Dalinar who could still do it.

[DreamEternal]

I don't think Adolin being half-alethi has anything to do with it. After Nergaoul moved, people in Jah Keved felt the Thrill even more powerfully than the alethi, so it seems to be a purely geographic phenomenom.

[maxal she/her]

I don't think Adolin being half-alethi has anything to do with it. After Nergaoul moved, people in Jah Keved felt the Thrill even more powerfully than the alethi, so it seems to be a purely geographic phenomenom.

 

I once read a theory Alethi are perhaps more sensitive to the Thrill addiction due to them being the warring nation. I thus wondered if Adolin being half-Alethi had something to do with it as he does react more harshly than Dalinar. I could also be graping at straws though.

[The Invested Beard]

There is definitely something there, whether it's just that Nergaoul singled the alethi out for it or something else, but yeah historically the Alethi are the most intrinsically intertwined with a culture of glory in warfare. I mean most of their history post-recreance has been killing each other for pretty much no reason and being praised for it by the ardentia.

[DreamEternal]

There is definitely something there, whether it's just that Nergaoul singled the alethi out for it or something else, but yeah historically the Alethi are the most intrinsically intertwined with a culture of glory in warfare. I mean most of their history post-recreance has been killing each other for pretty much no reason and being praised for it by the ardentia.

The fact that most people fighting in Alethkar, where Nergaul was for centuries at least, are alethi, makes it easy to imagine the Thrill being associated with being an alethi instead of living in Akethkar.

[The Ninja Yodeler he/him]

The fact that most people fighting in Alethkar, where Nergaul was for centuries at least, are alethi, makes it easy to imagine the Thrill being associated with being an alethi instead of living in Akethkar.

It seems like the Thrill was more active in Alethkar causing them to feel a kind of addiction. Which leads to more fighting and war, keeping them from uniting for the last desolation. Which is kinda exactly what happened. Don't know if it's stronger in Alethi than other ethnicities. Seems Nergaoul either precedes lots of fighting and war, or follows it. Not sure, haven't really looked into it much. Need to. Love how Brandon weaves it all together. Although it does make it hard to explain these books to anyone lol.

Edited January 21, 2016 by The Ninja Yodeler

[Pathfinder]

Well my own theory is that Alethkar was the center for training the knights radiant, while Urithiru was where their power base was held. I would need to pull up the quote but in one of Dalinar's past visions, the Windrunner mentions about how Dalinar should go to Alethkar to be trained how to fight and potentially become a knight radiant, and that it was the people of Alethkar's duty to serve everyone else by protecting them. I feel like, and again this is completely just my opinion, that what may have happened was once upon a time soldiers were honored but considered servants to civilians to protect them. Eventually bitterness or something similar happened on the part of the protectors either before or after the betrayal. So now a nation known to serve others because they are fighters and a place to train potential radiants kind of said to itself "wait a minute, here we are fighting and dying for these people and we are like servants to them? storm that!" and a whole society already built on fighting, turned it to being the highest calling and ruling class. Which would be why Alethkar is unique in that almost every other society places more credence on those who work the land (Shin, Horneaters, etc) over those who fight. That then provided Nergaoul a prime playground for the Thrill. But I do not feel it is a genetic trait. I would have to do research, and provide quotes before I claim this is an actual theory I want to post and espouse though.

 

edit: found the part in the book. So turns out I remembered it slightly skewed but the theory in my mind still stands. Urithiru is where the knights radiant trained, but Alethkar is where they lived. 

 

"Urithiru is where our orders are centered, but we live in cities all across Alethela".

 

Upon checking the maps from the original 10 heraldic kingdoms and the new map, Alethela and Alethkar have very similar borders. The passage continues

 

"It is our duty and our privilege to stay vigilant for the Desolation. One kingdom to study the arts of war so that others might have peace. We die so that you may live. It has ever been our place. All who can fight are needed, and all who have a desire to fight should be compelled to come to Alethela. Fighting, even this fighting against the Ten Deaths, changes a person. We can teach you so that it will not destroy you. Come to us. Every Pasture needs three things, Flocks to grow, herdsmen to tend, and watchers at the rim. We of Alethela are those watchers - the warriors who protect and fight. We maintain the terrible arts of killing, then pass them on to others when the Desolation comes."

Edited January 21, 2016 by Pathfinder

[+Wax he/him]

Reading all the above, I am getting increasingly convinced that Adolin will be a radiant.

I scanned back to when Dalinar last saw the thrill go away. It was at the end of WoK just moments before sadeas betrayed him at the tower plateau, leading to an eventual fight with Eshonai.

Now, in WoR, Adolin doesn't have the thrill as he is fighting Eshonai in the end.

It's suspiciously similar.

Edited January 22, 2016 by axcellence